Monthly Development Update: February 2012

[Gunforhire]

The problem is we can sit on LFT for anything and have the time to read these post and grind our axes and still not have an invite for any team. Hence the axe grinding is producing a rather sharp blade.

I'm in a nice org and we are always doing something. Never wanting for a team. You might try it.

[Raggy]

The problem is we can sit on LFT for anything and have the time to read these post and grind our axes and still not have an invite for any team. Hence the axe grinding is producing a rather sharp blade.

I honestly find myself flickering between AO and WoW for this single reason.

AO - Great skill system, old friends and in-depth character customisation.

WoW - Logon and do anything you want at any time you want.


I get so irritated with being 100% reliant on other people past 160 when there is absolutely nothing on LFT at the times I tend to play that I just resub my WoW account and play something that is guaranteed to have teams for 24/7.

Simply pressing 2 buttons on WoW to do any level related content with 4 other people instantly trumps, sitting on LFT for 3 hours, farming !spam on Neutnet, and wishing for org members to help you, any day of the week.

[Wakizaka]

Level 11.
Put all the skill points into Python \o/

Good choice of language. I approve!

[Windguaerd]

Here comes Windguaerd, put your helmets on.

The Producer personally explained to me why the video was delayed.
The Producer explained to the community why the video was delayed.

IMO (sorry I'm not humble), even tho I highly dislike the decision and that my faith in Funcom as a company has gone down the drain for the past 2 years... he made the right call.

Now... I said my faith in FC, not my faith in the Devs or Lindelu (or Means when he was the main man).

Means/Lindelu and the Dev Team, do/did a hell of a job with the resources available to them, and the spaghetti code they work with (it's very very very old, 2001 was when the game came out, but the code was build around 1996 I believe so it's about 16yrs old).

However, like every employee... you need to follow the guidelines and expectations of your employer. Stay within budget, don't do this, don't do that, no you can't tell this to the community until this other thing is ready, etc, etc, etc.

One of the things Means did which got my respect:

At heart I am a vindictive, heartless, ruthless bastard and behaving in any other way is an effort for me.™

In reply to someone who had crossed the line. He reacted humanly, not like a drone GD that follows the conga line.

Ofc then... there was damage control since no GD in Funcom's company history had ever virtually slapped a customer before, lol.

Means was very funny and loved to praise his team (which people trolled him for). He took the heat for everything even if it was no fault of his own or any Dev (again, he got trolled for it).

I expect the new Producer and GD to get heavily trolled, not because they aren't doing their jobs right... but because they inherited a very long "to do" list and the expectations of the community are higher than ever before.

From what I've seen so far.

Dave "Ilaliya" Williams knows wtf he's doing. Try and give him some room to run through the burning gauntlet (yes, it's a pun).

Fia "Lindelu" Tjernberg knows wtf she's doing. She's been a Dev for years and is not a noob so don't treat her as one, or blame her for the decisions of past Game Directors.

In short, give them some rope... they either hang themselves or swing AO forward to a better future.

=====================================

Blast from the past!

Silirrion built the bridge between FC and the AO Community.
Means crossed the bridge and shook our hands.
Funcom delayed maintenance to the bridge and it's weak but still strong enough to allow Ilaliya and Lindelu to cross and speak to us.

[Phixalicious]

Dave "Ilaliya" Williams knows wtf he's doing. Try and give him some room to run through the burning gauntlet (yes, it's a pun).

Can't do any worse than he did on AoC.

Originally Posted by Colin "Means" Cragg
At heart I am a vindictive, heartless, ruthless bastard and behaving in any other way is an effort for me.™

If being a keyboard badass counted for anything, Derek Smart would be "Developer of the Century".

Fia "Lindelu" Tjernberg knows wtf she's doing. She's been a Dev for years and is not a noob so don't treat her as one, or blame her for the decisions of past Game Directors.

I have been a fan of Lindelu's work over the years. I'll reserve judgement on her GD skills for awhile.

In short, give them some rope... they either hang themselves or swing AO forward to a better future.

Can we start a betting pool?

[Windguaerd]

Can't do any worse than he did on AoC.

If being a keyboard badass counted for anything, Derek Smart would be "Developer of the Century".

I have been a fan of Lindelu's work over the years. I'll reserve judgement on her GD skills for awhile.

Can we start a betting pool?

1. Not familiar with the Producer's work @ AoC, but if you care to share, I'd like to hear about his part work.

2. It was more than being a "keyboard badass" but I won't go down that line of discussion.

3. Lindelu has been kind in the past and worked with AOU, which gained my respect. Sil made a good choice with Means, and I think he in turn is likely to have done the same.

4. Ok, we talking credits? cause my wife would kill me if I bet cash. I'd put 100M on Producer/GD doing the right thing.

[Otansaanpas]

imo, worst thing FC would do now is to release the engine-video because of the whiners.
if they gave first view exclusively to gaming site x, then gaming site x should be first to see it.
making few players angry is far less destructive than making big advertisement companies angry :P

its in-developement video after all, it only shows how things are not going to look.
and by that i mean engine, shaders, models and textures are most likely not finished and are improved before actual release.

[Antinoos]

...
3. Balance .... (do you really think that "old players" ..... (the real AO community, and the real AO "online" power ) will ever want to start over learning the game experience from a different point of view?

This is the point here. If I find my 10 toons on two acc. no more enjoyable to play I will for sure cancel at once. Spamming Trader drains every few seconds??? Not with me, sorry.

Engine is not a thing that matters for me. I played so many years with the old engine and it does what it should. Quick and clean. Try LotRO and you will wait 5 minutes til everything is loaded.

[Phixalicious]

1. Not familiar with the Producer's work @ AoC, but if you care to share, I'd like to hear about his part work.



2. It was more than being a "keyboard badass" but I won't go down that line of discussion.

3. Lindelu has been kind in the past and worked with AOU, which gained my respect. Sil made a good choice with Means, and I think he in turn is likely to have done the same.

4. Ok, we talking credits? cause my wife would kill me if I bet cash. I'd put 100M on Producer/GD doing the right thing.

1.

Well, just so you know it's generally the producers that are in charge of the budget.

Wasn't slamming him. Just pointing out that, considering he was in charge of the budget for AoC, he really can't do much worse for AO. In fact, I'm hoping he can get the $'s to stretch a bit more. Considering AoC's budget has obviously been cut quite a bit the last couple years.

2. Point is, if you're going to point out something Means did to earn respect ( and I do respect Means, he at least tried ), there would probably be better examples than a forum rage moment.

3. Which is why I'm reserving judgement. I gave Sil and Means head starts before I started ragging them, I'll give Lindelu the same courtesy.

4. If I only had 100 million credits. lol

{removed}

Funny ideea: Make the SL free ... this should all more players to AO then all the other 1,2,3 etc ...

Have you looked how FC handled AoC F2P? The only ones in the running with them for worst F2P implementation would be SOE with EQ2.

[Ilaliya]

1.

Wasn't slamming him. Just pointing out that, considering he was in charge of the budget for AoC, he really can't do much worse for AO. In fact, I'm hoping he can get the $'s to stretch a bit more. Considering AoC's budget has obviously been cut quite a bit the last couple years.

Well, on AoC I was Lead Systems Designer from after the 1.5 patch (the big item rebalance) through the expansion. So while I did the resource management in terms of time and people, I didn't do any of the budget stuff. Right after Godslayer launched, I hopped on TSW.

However you can absolutely blame me for any of the class revamps that happened after 1.5, the potion/CC changes, or any of the expansion systems (AA system, factional set gear, token systems, and so forth). You can also blame me for the the gem revamp if you played back then, and the crafting updates that happened post launch, and my involvement in the epic crafting raids (I worked with the raid team, ofc).

[Phixalicious]

Well, on AoC I was Lead Systems Designer from after the 1.5 patch (the big item rebalance) through the expansion. So while I did the resource management in terms of time and people, I didn't do any of the budget stuff. Right after Godslayer launched, I hopped on TSW.

However you can absolutely blame me for any of the class revamps that happened after 1.5, the potion/CC changes, or any of the expansion systems (AA system, factional set gear, token systems, and so forth). You can also blame me for the the gem revamp if you played back then, and the crafting updates that happened post launch, and my involvement in the epic crafting raids (I worked with the raid team, ofc).

Ah, okay. I thought you were doing the same there as here. My bad.

And I'm not a 1.4 fanatic, I hated the ".027" stat crap. And I always thought the gem system as a whole was too Korean grinder-ish, so the revamp didn't bother me too much. Made it a bit more tolerable for me actually. I'd have rather you guys had just dumped it completely, though. Actually I was fine up 'til Godslayer, when the game suddenly went from just leveling to grrriinnndddiinnngggg. And I hate raiding with a passion, almost as much as PvP. So you can do whatever you want to raiding and it'll never bother me. lol

{removed}

[Gunfytr]

Should the engine have taken five years? Objectively speaking, no. So I'm not going to sit here and tell you that mistakes weren't made. But that doesn't mean we don't all want to see AO live up to its full potential.

If nothing else, that earned +10 respect points from me.

Of course that also prolly earned u heated stares from across the room from Kintaii. (j/k, Kintaii...dont hurt meh)

[Traderjill]

Dave "Ilaliya" Williams knows wtf he's doing. Try and give him some room to run through the burning gauntlet (yes, it's a pun).

Fia "Lindelu" Tjernberg knows wtf she's doing. She's been a Dev for years and is not a noob so don't treat her as one, or blame her for the decisions of past Game Directors.

In short, give them some rope... they either hang themselves or swing AO forward to a better future.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my posts in this thread, albeit critical, are because I'd like to see both of them succeed in their roles. I love playing AO and I'd like to continue to play it as I've yet to find any other game that holds my interest for longer than 1-3 months before I ditch it. AO has held my attention for over 8 years now.

That being said, pointing out concerns about the communications and having, what I feel to be, a semi-intelligent discussion regarding said communications isn't bashing anyone.. it is a paying customer expressing concerns in a forum created for feedback. As I've voiced before, and Lindelu and Italiya can correct me if I'm wrong, if they wanted to just have a one way communication they could very well lock the thread after posting the update. They choose not to do so.. and I guess I like to think the reason is because they care to hear what we have to say.

I see the random posts from AO/Funcom staff on the forums.. they do seem to read them and I've already seen at least a couple changes that were made since lindelu arrived that I know were suggestions posted on the forums.. so I dunno... I think as long as posts are not like the the last few have been (back and forth flaming) that its just a healthy discussion. I know that I have learned quite a bit and gotten some interesting insight from reading some people's posts..regardless of whether I agree or disagree with their statements. I'm thinking they get ideas or insight from reading our thoughts as well. It doesn't matter if the game devs/director/producer agree with anything I say... I talk to people in game and most of the things I comment about are echo'd by others.. all I'm doing is putting it out there for them to see. Now whether or not they make any decisions based off our feedback doesn't matter.. at least the info is there for them to take into consideration.

[Psikie]

This is not directed toward anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits you can wear it.

It amazes me the posts I read in the forums. Did you know there are perhaps 20, maybe 30 active posters on these forums? That's including professionals for each class and dev's. What's trully funny is that everyone seems to know what's best for AO short term and long term. ***Logic incomming*** for every forum poster there are are dozens of people who never post, don't care to post, or don't even know the forums are here. So everytime I read some one say "everyone wants this or that", what you really mean is YOU want this or that. The majority of people that play AO play because they like it as is, or like the people they play with. They don't care about some rebalance or engine, and truthfully rebalance will probably send some of them away from AO because they won't know wtf happened to their toons one day.

I pay to play, I trust that the money I spend is going toward either keeping the game going as is or into improving it. I don't care either way. Hakuna Matada, Serenity Prayer, take a valium, or what ever you need to stop all this crying on forums. It's embarrassing and I can only imagine how the forum mods/devs sit back and talk about some of the posters on the forums. This thread has been so much garbage time, it's impossible to get actual constructive feedback. The majority of complaints are purely personal problems and how something affects your toon or your play time. A lot of me me me me me. It's sad and pitiful. You don't like AO as is, don't pay to play it, that's not hard to understand is it? So stop trying to make out that some personal opinion is what 99% of all players want. I don't see 99% of players posting on these forums. There are plenty of people who like AO as is, know how I know that? Because they pay to play everyday and are not looking for forums to complain and vent about personal issues threatening to quit every other day.

[Traderjill]

There are plenty of people who like AO as is, know how I know that? Because they pay to play everyday and are not looking for forums to complain and vent about personal issues threatening to quit every other day.

Is the population difference between RK1 and RK2 that significantly different? I'm getting the feel, from your post, that maybe RK1's population is similar to what we had on RK2 back in 2004 or so when I started playing.

I can tell you, with confidence, that RK2 is very empty.. symbolic of the fact that there are no longer 'plenty' of people that enjoy playing AO as it is. I have been doing !orglist (Budbot command) on most of the orgs clanside on Rimor (having been searching for a raiding ally/partner org) and most of the major orgs are dead. The best populated orgs have online numbers of like 10-15 people with the most being a neutral org I'm affiliated with that has upwards of 25 people online during GMT peak times though only 5-10 during USA prime.

Honestly, I take no personal offense to your statements.. but it sounds like we're playing two very different games.. or maybe the same game but in completely different environments. That would most defintely affect outlook.

But I do agree that 85%+ of the existing playerbase will not post their feelings on the forums.. they just stop playing. At least that's what I've been observing of people that I play with alot in game. I think that only 1 or 2 people in my org (and we have about 40 active players) actually post on the forums at all outside of a shopping post but most of them have sentiments very similar to mine in regards to communications and such. So yeah, just using my org as an example.. only 7.5% of the org posts on the AO official forums.. and I think maybe add another 2 or 3 that will come here to read the monthly update. Those that have left the game (not counted in the 40 count of active players) have not posted a single complaint on these forums nor provided as much as an e-mail or PM regarding their complaints.. they... just... stopped... playing. In the past 7 months I can say that accounts for at least 50-60 players (that have quit without word to Funcom). [And yes my 50-60 number is spot on from just my orgmembers as I clean up inactives on a regular basis.. giving people a 90 day window of inactivity. Just did a clean up before maintenance where I removed another 13 people that stopped playing.. but folks that had grown tired of the stuff we all complain about on the forums.]

[Raggy]

-complete tripe-

If I want to voice my opinion on a PUBLIC FORUM, I will.

If I want to give criticism about a product I pay £15 a month for, I will.


Telling people to "leave if they don't like it" shows how willing you are to eat any old crap served to you. How do you think products are improved? Praying to the gods? Throwing Runes? Tarot Cards?

Wrong, improvement to products comes from consumer complaint, it doesn't take a Wizard to figure that out.


As for '30-40 active posters so that isn't the majority', well, lets see. Go into the game and ask on OOC "do you think the population has declined?". Come back and tell me the answer, if there is anyone around to answer that question.

Also ask these:

"Will the engine ever come?"
"Looking forward to rebalance?"
"Excited for the server merge?"

You'll find the response mirrors what we say on the forum simply because the population is so low now, we know each other, there are no new faces, everyone is a vet.

[Gorathon]

***Logic incomming*** ...everytime I read some one say "everyone wants this or that", what you really mean is YOU want this or that. The majority of people that play AO play because they like it as is, or like the people they play with. They don't care about some rebalance or engine, and truthfully rebalance will probably send some of them away from AO because they won't know wtf happened to their toons one day.

Monday morning logic fail is fun to read. Prolly oughtn't chide folks for over-representing the player base then doing it yourself. Further, I highly doubt that more than a few percent of the "active" players don't know about rebalance.

[MyGift]

If I want to voice my opinion on a PUBLIC FORUM, I will.

If I want to give criticism about a product I pay £15 a month for, I will.


As for '30-40 active posters so that isn't the majority', well, lets see. Go into the game and ask on OOC "do you think the population has declined?". Come back and tell me the answer, if there is anyone around to answer that question.

Also ask these:

"Will the engine ever come?"
"Looking forward to rebalance?"
"Excited for the server merge?"

You'll find the response mirrors what we say on the forum simply because the population is so low now, we know each other, there are no new faces, everyone is a vet.

This.

[Notcrattey]

-snip-

Yes because OCC is the most reliable place for user input, the place where people try to be as sarcastic and annoying as possible.

[Raggy]

Yes because OCC is the most reliable place for user input, the place where people try to be as sarcastic and annoying as possible.

It's still a good starting point for opinions.