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Thread: Friday with Means - November 26th, 2010 - Spreadsheet Assault

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    If you consider OFAB free, what, exactly, isn't free then ?
    Everything is free in terms of real money
    Creds != real money

    some of that armor i bought to afk in bor cost me some time.... <3 afk

  2. #222
    Also, since I see it's just the same 8-13 people arguing it's bad, I'd say FC's plan worked out and their projections were valid enough which just underlines that they don't want to kill their own game (DOH!!).


    ^^ that line is the best being that AO isnt based around 8-13 peoples opinions. Its the whole games community opinion and not everyone is complaining i know ive spent already 60$ on the shop well worth my money because i love and adore this game beyond anything its kept me inspired and is just a great thing to know that ive played this game since i was 11 and now im 19 :P i grew up with this game in my life so i will and do not mind at all giving more money to support this game if they had a donation button i would press it the minute it came up! :P

    also being able to purchase 50$ worth of an item 1 item! for 750m was well worth my time to not want to do the tedious missions that some people like but i am not one of those people.

    I bought VP's to get my ring im glad i did ive never been a fan of PvP but i do enjoy watching good AO pvp :P

    It's here and its gonna stay nothing you will say will make them remove VP/Tokens and i HIGHLY doubt they'd be adding things that are ridiculously Character enhanceing.. honestly ofabs not much of an enhancement.. it is but isnt more so not.. :P you cant see into the future this buisiness from what ive seen is nothing like SoE or Turbine who do theyre micro transactions to bleed the playerbase dry

    Funcom just wanted more options for us that would make them more money theres nothing wrong with that!

    and no matter if people think the engine isnt coming (it so is sheesh be patient more so then you've been patient now!) dont you think that the engine+rebalance would be the thing thats fixing these bugs and exploits its like a totally different code for the game isnt it? (not to savvy on game codeing) I would expect in a new engine most glitches and bugs would be a thing of a past and gone but new ones that are more interesting will come up everygame has a bug/glitch/thing not all of them are EVER fixed.. :P
    Dochollie 220 Opifex Doctor

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    Read the part in brackets rather then just quote one part and assume things.
    I linked a different post where you said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    Have you noticed that the game is dying? Have you noticed the population is low?
    I never said the game was dying, just that it needs more actual people which isn't the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siyra View Post
    How'd you come up with that one? The game dies simply because it exists? If nobody ever used it; if 100% of the population current and future never uses the store the game still dies simply because it exists?

    That's a load of bull****.
    Maybe if you bothered to read what was said rather than assume things and go off on a rant like some troll you'd get something out of a post. Of course you are a troll and even got me to agree with Hacre in another thread (think of the poor freezing demons in hell). I never said the game was dying, you did though. I never told people what they should do, FC or players, you did though. All I was doing was giving my opinion on the matter and even made a point to state that it was all I was doing. I don't like item shops in a game I'm playing, period.



    ----------------------------------


    Quote Originally Posted by Dochollie View Post
    It's here and its gonna stay nothing you will say will make them remove VP/Tokens and i HIGHLY doubt they'd be adding things that are ridiculously Character enhanceing..
    Although they may. First it was stated quite clearly that they'd never sell anything that gives in game power/advantages for real money. Now there's stuff like VP and tokens for real money which do. From there what may happen is that they extend it to items that aren't too rare and can be traded around like lead bots, symbs and so forth. They'd bill it as time saving conveniences for those that don't like grinding the items sort of like how Means described it for VP. After that nodrop stuff from raids and such plus in time rare stuff, again under the umbrella of time saving conveniences. Eventually new super powered stuff only found in the items shop. It could happen.

    Before all the items in the shop were unveiled I figured no way they would sell stuff like VP, tokens and levels as we were told it'd never happen. XP stims maybe but that's about as far as they'd go I thought. Yet here we are with VP, tokens and such in the items shop. So right now I think anything ending up in there in time is quite possible.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    Maybe if you bothered to read
    What a novel idea!

    Lets do this together okay?

    Look back at my post... see the part in brackets? Generic response.

    Now, do we need to break out a dictionary or do you know what generic and response means?

    Do you get it yet or is your vanity still in the way?

    The first part of the post was directed at you, after the (Generic Response) notification (put there specifically so that you wouldn't think I was talking to you) I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU OR ABOUT YOU.

    So please, instead of acting like you're winning in some great debate against yet another forum troll step back, put your vanity aside and realize that I never claimed you said the game was dying or that you told people how to play etc.

    I never said anything about you: it was a GENERIC RESPONSE
    Shhh... I'm in disguise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazalanche View Post
    People that continuously insult the player base TRYING to level, while asking why the population is so low, need to get a clue.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixOfAges View Post
    First it was stated quite clearly that they'd never sell anything that gives in game power/advantages for real money. Now there's stuff like VP and tokens for real money which do.
    I sometimes believe that has been horribly misinterpreted and incorrectly explained.

    But, I do admit that its a grey area.

    Like the Veteran Shop, of which the same thing was said, I take the statement as meaning "anything sold only in the shop will not give game power/advantages".

    Do VPs and Tokens give you an advantage that you cant get without the shop? no, the shop is just a short cut.

    Does it mean some people will have to work harder if they want the same things as those willing to buy for money? yes, but how is that really different to someone prepared to farm 24/7 for items, when others dont?

    Does it give you an advantage that is unobtainable by others? nope, and I think thats the important part, its not providing something you must buy.

    But, there is a fine line between what is currently sold on there and what might be added at a later date, in terms of how much it affects player power/advantage.
    Omutb - President - Ring of Destruction

    If you only knew the power of the Frosted Strawberry Poptart....

    "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead." - because Wales just isnt a country

    Chernobyl, providing the freshest bottled water since 1986, for that healthy green glow.

  6. #226
    So basically any item being sold in the shop is ok, inclusive of ACDCs, RBPs, iGoCs, since it's only a difference in time. Only Enhanced Notum Infused Combined Dreadloch Modified Imbued ACDC of Clarity Backpack would be a problem to the people defending FC's position. Good to know where the game is headed.
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    So basically any item being sold in the shop is ok, inclusive of ACDCs, RBPs, iGoCs, since it's only a difference in time. Only Enhanced Notum Infused Combined Dreadloch Modified Imbued ACDC of Clarity Backpack would be a problem to the people defending FC's position. Good to know where the game is headed.
    That's the problem with "convenience" category. You can put almost everything there. And argue, it is just for saving time.

    I don't like selling VP and tokes, but I can live with it. Everyone has different boundaries for accepting items selling. FC should be very careful here (I'm sure they know it well). If they would be too much greedy, they can kill AO in one day. They won't get chance to take it back.
    Dragocz RK1

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    Does it give you an advantage that is unobtainable by others? nope, and I think thats the important part, its not providing something you must buy.
    Actually it still does (read grid/gms/bank thingies) which were PROFESSION SPECIFIC

    Grid beacon thingy: Fixers, and in lesser form: Docs and traders
    GMS item: Traders
    Bank item: TL4 crats

    These items in the shop give an ADVANTAGE over other players that dont have a trader/crat/fixer ready.
    Grid item gives an ADVANTAGE because you can put yourself into grid without any real backdraw.
    Yes there is this IS item but that locks your CL for what? 4 hours?
    GMS item gives an ADVANTAGE over other players (not traders) because you dont have to walk to a GMS terminal (it is small, butyet it's still an advantage)
    Bank item: see GMS item

    So in fact, those 3 items are NOT obtainable by others (except specific professions)

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    But, there is a fine line between what is currently sold on there and what might be added at a later date, in terms of how much it affects player power/advantage.
    And what about nano and heal Recharger - Final Stage? 60% of nano or some HP every 4mins and you never have to buy or grind ql250 heal/nano recharger.
    Isn't this the biggest advantages over poeple who didn't pay for special stuff? If you don't want to pay or you don't have points for veteran items, you are really in serious disadvantage.
    First level 1 soldier with BOC in Anarchy Online<---[CGS] project
    Owned and killed tl1/2 NW for months, time to leave and give chance to clan "twinks".
    First trader with 100% JAME ql 141 at level30 at rk1
    Clan PVP org[1-220] in one line
    [Questra]: well i hate omnis having side xp [Questra]: but i'm afraid to spoil your fun i'm only gonna plant neutral bases at tl2 now, so you'll have to piss the neuts off if you want to zerg lowbie sites
    Darkirbiska/Darkirbis/Marburg1111/Mavherick/Irbiska/Ultimater2/Ultimater/Ilubtower and some froobs....wtb more slots [retired]

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by arctictiger View Post
    Actually it still does (read grid/gms/bank thingies) which were PROFESSION SPECIFIC

    Grid beacon thingy: Fixers, and in lesser form: Docs and traders
    GMS item: Traders
    Bank item: TL4 crats
    Perhaps, but having or not having those isnt particularly game breaking, you cant kill players or mobs faster by having any of those.

    Sure you can get to the grid, buy things faster and access your bank anywhere, but none of those things really make the original professions any more uber, do they?

    Maybe I missed something, does my briefcase have a special 50k, no cap nuke on it? I think not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkirbiska1 View Post
    And what about nano and heal Recharger - Final Stage? 60% of nano or some HP every 4mins and you never have to buy or grind ql250 heal/nano recharger.
    Isn't this the biggest advantages over poeple who didn't pay for special stuff? If you don't want to pay or you don't have points for veteran items, you are really in serious disadvantage.
    Ok, yes that is probably an advantage over other players, but its not like you cant heal and regain nano in other ways.

    Its no different to me using QL125 heal/nano kits because theyre store buyable and someone else using QL250 ones because they roll them.

    Both heal, just different amounts, does the person with the QL250s have an advantage over me? yes.
    Should they be nerfed and forced to use QL125s? no, but would be amusing

    What I was saying is "not provide advantages that can not be gained in ANY other way".
    Omutb - President - Ring of Destruction

    If you only knew the power of the Frosted Strawberry Poptart....

    "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead." - because Wales just isnt a country

    Chernobyl, providing the freshest bottled water since 1986, for that healthy green glow.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    What I was saying is "not provide advantages that can not be gained in ANY other way".
    I like how FC is getting the fanbois to shift the goalposts for them. Bring on the FP iGoCs and ACDCs plx!
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    Ok, yes that is probably an advantage over other players, but its not like you cant heal and regain nano in other ways.

    Its no different to me using QL125 heal/nano kits because theyre store buyable and someone else using QL250 ones because they roll them.

    Both heal, just different amounts, does the person with the QL250s have an advantage over me? yes.
    Should they be nerfed and forced to use QL125s? no, but would be amusing

    What I was saying is "not provide advantages that can not be gained in ANY other way".
    For example after one click NT gains over 23 000 nano.
    First level 1 soldier with BOC in Anarchy Online<---[CGS] project
    Owned and killed tl1/2 NW for months, time to leave and give chance to clan "twinks".
    First trader with 100% JAME ql 141 at level30 at rk1
    Clan PVP org[1-220] in one line
    [Questra]: well i hate omnis having side xp [Questra]: but i'm afraid to spoil your fun i'm only gonna plant neutral bases at tl2 now, so you'll have to piss the neuts off if you want to zerg lowbie sites
    Darkirbiska/Darkirbis/Marburg1111/Mavherick/Irbiska/Ultimater2/Ultimater/Ilubtower and some froobs....wtb more slots [retired]

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Omutb View Post
    Ok, yes that is probably an advantage over other players, but its not like you cant heal and regain nano in other ways.
    good one ...

    how about selling a weapon that does twice the damage than other "best weapons" in game ...

    it's not like you can not do damage in other ways ?
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
    220, 220, 200, 164, 150, 116, 110, 82, 70, 57, 40, 21 ...

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    I like how FC is getting the fanbois to shift the goalposts for them. Bring on the FP iGoCs and ACDCs plx!
    No, Im just providing the opposing viewpoint and logical counter-argument.

    Im actually neither for, nor particularly against, the store, or whats in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkirbiska1 View Post
    For example after one click NT gains over 23 000 nano.
    Well, thats only 12 clicks of a QL200 nano kit, excluding any other +nano effects, and 4mins waiting time. Oh look, 4mins! thats the time between using the new nano recharger.

    Ok, so I admit, it saves you spending creds buying kits, and provides you with 4mins of extra time running about, instead of sitting down to replenish your nano pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    how about selling a weapon that does twice the damage than other "best weapons" in game ...

    it's not like you can not do damage in other ways ?
    See, thats not the same.

    Theres a difference in being able to do twice the damage, compared to having to sit and heal for twice as long.

    But as I said before, its a grey area, some people will think something is an advantage, some wont.

    Does it worry me if people are able to replace their health/nano faster than I can? not really.
    Does it change the game as I play it? not so far.
    Should it change the way others play it? personally, I dont think it should, but each to their own.

    As for what might end up in there one day, that might change my opinion to a more pro/con one, rather than the neutral one i have currently.
    Omutb - President - Ring of Destruction

    If you only knew the power of the Frosted Strawberry Poptart....

    "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead." - because Wales just isnt a country

    Chernobyl, providing the freshest bottled water since 1986, for that healthy green glow.

  15. #235
    so you would have no problems, in principle, with lead bots or igocs being sold in the store Omutb?
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  16. #236

    Funcom employee

    This is getting way outta hand. I know you guys like trolling and trying to catch people in logical fallacies and all that jazz, but this needs to stop.

    Point #1: VP was meant as a PvP reward. We stated this when Lost Eden came out, it's still true today. Make all the arguments you want about how you "omg neeeeed" OFAB armour to complete your PvM setup - It's still a PvP reward. Always has been, always will be. VP was tossed into the LE Alien Missions to provide a small bonus to those who wanted to try and grind it out - It was even stated this was the case when LE launched and this hasn't changed at all. Now you can choose to bypass that grind completely, either by utilizing the new item store or by spending your credits in-game that you have received while doing PvM content. You don't wanna PvP? You don't have to anymore. You don't even have to do AI missions. Otherwise, in terms of utilizing the content which naturally gives you Victory Points, the time and effort spent in receiving VP is what we want it to be. We've even increased the opportunities for receiving VP over the last year or so (new BS daily mission, new open PvP playfield) - Arguing that it's too hard to get a PvP reward through PvM content is like someone complaining they can't purchase a Burden of Competence in the OFAB vendor. You have chances and opportunities to get the gear you want, either by doing PvP content that rewards VP, doing PvM content that rewards VP, purchasing Funcom Points, or spending credits in-game that you've earned by doing PvM content.

    Point #2: The world could end tomorrow. The sky could fall tomorrow. We could all wake up in the morning with tiny gnomes that only speak in Finnish grafted to our foreheads. There's a lot of things that could happen tomorrow; worrying about them today, however, usually tends to just be an exercise in wasted effort. We have not, nor are we planning on adding in things like viralbots, combined AI armour, BoCs, ACDCs, or anything of the sort. We've in fact directly stated that we're not planning on doing this. Accusing us prior to the fact of something we've pointedly said we're not planning on doing and ranting about how this is something "that we're definitely going to do" when we've made statements directly to the contrary is not only ridiculous but a waste of everyone's time who is involved. Which brings us directly to....

    Point #3: "Well, if you've added in VPs and Tokens why NOT add in viralbots and RBPs and and and and" - The answer for this is simple.

    Because we said so.

    You want an official word on why we aren't? There it is. Because we said so. Trying to trap people in logical fallacies is absolutely pointless and worthless and the same five or six of you who keep running over the same endless loop of arguments over and over again are doing absolutely nothing to alter our minds on this. We're not selling those. End of story. This segues nicely into...

    Point #4: I've made this statement in other threads (read this post and this post), now I'll make it here. There is nothing in the shop that effects YOUR gameplay experience. Not at all. Not in the slightest. No one who utilizes the shop is more powerful than someone who has played the game and chosen not to purchase Funcom Points. Your gameplay experience is absolutely positively no different now than how it was prior to the 18.4 patch. If you wanna point to any difference at all it's that you can now spend your in-game credits on buying VP if you want without ever having to set foot in a Battlestation or even looking at the item store (same of course applies to tokens). Otherwise? You can keep playing AO exactly as you did a couple of months ago, without the new item shop interfering with your life in the slightest.

    Point #5: We're not selling anything you can't otherwise get in-game (or could get in-game at some point) that offers a significant advantage to the character using it. Anyone trying to convince someone else that "oh well you're selling the power of not having to walk to the bank terminal!!1!" is a significant modification to a character's power level is, plain and simple, trolling, particularly considering that the effects of these items were already available to certain professions and are now just available to everyone else as a convenience item. Those of you who've started bringing up the topic of the healing kits/nano rechargers - They're in the veteran shop. They're veteran rewards you can get just for playing and having an active subscription. If you want to skip the wait then sure, yes, you can buy them from the item store. But they do not provide any significant advantage to a character during gameplay. They get you on your feet a little quicker after a battle; that's all. Nothing you can't do otherwise in-game already by using the other tools at your disposal.

    Look. I know we're all afraid of change. The instant that anything gets altered in the tiniest way, people tend to freak. This is *ok* - It's natural, it's a human response, it's the way we are at our cores. But there comes a point where you have to stop, relax, breathe, and start to look at things logically. All of the trolling and the ranting and the raving? It's not doing anything other than going in circles at this point, and while I'm all up for healthy debate and discussion, the trend this thread has taken over the last few pages has been anything but healthy (and the term "discussion" is certainly debatable when applied).

    While everyone is welcome to their opinion, going in circles like the thread has been the last few pages does nothing to help anyone. I'm posting this as a "final statement" on a lot of the issues which have been brought up in the thread; continuing to attempt to argue and troll back and forth about these topics within the Friday with Means thread past this point will end up with posts getting deleted and folks getting infracted. There's plenty enough threads over in the 18.4 forums where you can go to get your fix of 'debating' back and forth - Meantime, it needs to stop in here.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  17. #237
    edit: never mind, guess peiople dont like to be corrected and pointed to statements
    Last edited by arctictiger; Dec 1st, 2010 at 16:43:57.

  18. #238
    "We could all wake up in the morning with tiny gnomes that only speak in Finnish grafted to our foreheads."

    I have to admit that made me chuckle.

  19. #239

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by arctictiger View Post
    Sorry to interupt you Kintaii, but to me there is a big difference between gameplay and gameplay experience
    This entire itemshop does not affect my gameplay, however it does affect my gameplay experience.
    To me the game feels different now, also because what happens now is exact opposite of what (in my example, the post you linked) the provious GD stated.
    Now you say: we will not put vb/igoc/boc/you_name_it in the shop, but can you understand that people will think: just wait til next GD?
    Again, worrying about what may happen down the road isn't doing you or anyone else any good. Can I *understand* someone thinking that? Of course. But again, having it as an active worry to rant and rave about... it doesn't actually accomplish anything. We've stated our intentions; I can't control what someone else down the line might do, but maybe save the sound and fury for *that* guy instead of us?
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Point #3: "Well, if you've added in VPs and Tokens why NOT add in viralbots and RBPs and and and and" - The answer for this is simple.

    Because we said so.

    You want an official word on why we aren't? There it is. Because we said so. Trying to trap people in logical fallacies is absolutely pointless and worthless and the same five or six of you who keep running over the same endless loop of arguments over and over again are doing absolutely nothing to alter our minds on this. We're not selling those. End of story.
    Unfortunately (and I hope this isn't infraction-worthy to point out), FC have made promises in the past, some innocuous (never fixing Opi shoulderpads), some less so (no camping in the shadowlands), and we know that circumstances change, and we also know that you've introduced the tools to make all of the cash-based powergaming possible with the flip of a switch. The whole "because we said so" may sound nice to you guys, but it doesn't really assure the players when what we see is you introducing and dedicating considerable resources to a micro-transaction model. We're not stupid. AO is on its last legs - you wouldn't be taking such a risk with the economic model of this game if you didn't know this yourself. We're simply warning you that a lot of long-time players are going to eventually leave, and you are going to need to replace them but the fear is that you won't be able to with such a unique monthly-payment micro-transaction revenue model.

    This segues nicely into...

    Point #4: I've made this statement in other threads (read this post and this post), now I'll make it here. There is nothing in the shop that effects YOUR gameplay experience. Not at all. Not in the slightest. No one who utilizes the shop is more powerful than someone who has played the game and chosen not to purchase Funcom Points. Your gameplay experience is absolutely positively no different now than how it was prior to the 18.4 patch. If you wanna point to any difference at all it's that you can now spend your in-game credits on buying VP if you want without ever having to set foot in a Battlestation or even looking at the item store (same of course applies to tokens). Otherwise? You can keep playing AO exactly as you did a couple of months ago, without the new item shop interfering with your life in the slightest.
    But you don't realise that the competitive/social nature of MMOs is about comparing yourself with others, and this is true with all things. Why do people buy the "I am rich" app for $200? It doesn't do anything but it says something. The key here with a micro-transaction model is that you're introducing into the game an additional way for players to compare themselves to each other. The people who've argued quite eloquently about the way in which this changes the game environment for them are unaddressed in your point. This game is no longer one where people compete on level terms. It is now a game where you can take shortcuts and outdo the other player with cash. This is a massive change to the expectations of a game.
    Point #5: We're not selling anything you can't otherwise get in-game (or could get in-game at some point) that offers a significant advantage to the character using it. Anyone trying to convince someone else that "oh well you're selling the power of not having to walk to the bank terminal!!1!" is a significant modification to a character's power level is, plain and simple, trolling, particularly considering that the effects of these items were already available to certain professions and are now just available to everyone else as a convenience item. Those of you who've started bringing up the topic of the healing kits/nano rechargers - They're in the veteran shop. They're veteran rewards you can get just for playing and having an active subscription. If you want to skip the wait then sure, yes, you can buy them from the item store. But they do not provide any significant advantage to a character during gameplay. They get you on your feet a little quicker after a battle; that's all. Nothing you can't do otherwise in-game already by using the other tools at your disposal.
    The key word here is "significant" which is a necessarily subjective matter and your declaration that the changes aren't significant doesn't help the players who do feel they are a significant advantage. Tokens for creds, for example, is a significant advantage because it's an exchange of real money for any thing you want to buy those creds for. The people who defend it saying "it's not worth 50 bucks" don't realise that 50 bucks means different things to different people. To a millionaire, 50 bucks is like spit on the sidewalk, to some kid in Africa its a whole year of schooling. The point is, "significant" becomes "significant" because different people have the ability to make it so.
    Look. I know we're all afraid of change. The instant that anything gets altered in the tiniest way, people tend to freak. This is *ok* - It's natural, it's a human response, it's the way we are at our cores. But there comes a point where you have to stop, relax, breathe, and start to look at things logically. All of the trolling and the ranting and the raving? It's not doing anything other than going in circles at this point, and while I'm all up for healthy debate and discussion, the trend this thread has taken over the last few pages has been anything but healthy (and the term "discussion" is certainly debatable when applied).
    Hey Kintaii, I think you're cool, but I think you need to realise that people here aren't idiots. The cash is not a problem for me. Heck I've wagered in the MP forums that I'll resub both my accounts for a year if the balance patch comes out before end 2011 (whether or not I like the changes). The problem is that we aren't getting the environment we want out of the game anymore, the expectations we have of this game have been dramatically thrown out in the space of a month. You should realise unless you expect to be working on TSW next year, that any screw ups with AO's playerbase now and it's game over. You should learn to value the opinions of your dissenters more than your fanbois, their advice will only be to agree with whatever you guys say, and not give you honest feedback on the impact of things you'd like in the game
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

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