The Reballancing

[Mastablasta]

WHAT!? How DARE you suggest that people look at larger pictures and even THINK to for ONE SECOND consider the changes in anything but relating INDIVIDUAL things to how they are NOW, not in the future!?!?!?! PREPOSTROUS!

[meatybtz]

WHAT!? How DARE you suggest that people look at larger pictures and even THINK to for ONE SECOND consider the changes in anything but relating INDIVIDUAL things to how they are NOW, not in the future!?!?!?! PREPOSTROUS!

I am soo ashamed of myself .... forgive me oh masses!

[Worldofalts]

the new balance system will make all professions a cake-cutter setup, with everyone getting a fair piece.

[meatybtz]

Um welcome to AO? Is this your first day?

What's your point? That enfs can survive against gimps? We already knew that.. it's the same way across many other profs. I am geared well as an enf, put 5 end game soldiers on an enf and see how long he lasts, same with NTs or anyone who can immobilize an enf. They have to run like hell in order to survive, even that level of survival is more due to client desync than anything else. I don't see anyone complaining about soldiers with AMS tanking 5 keepers at once.

Show me a fraps of any enf taking on 5 properly geared, pvp specced 220s and not dying horribly or running for his life.

Uhh because they cant? Really.... AMS is not the life saver people make it out to being. I've killed them on my old clan enf through AMS.

As for PVP specced.. there is more to PVP than gear. It is called experience... and in more modern times.. luck. Though, I must admit to having forgotten that everyone PVPs cookie cutter and you are either uber or not. Ahh yes, AO PVP has gotten so much better in recent years.

I for one miss the times when the PVPers were more varied, more skilled, and had less of an ego (fragile) issue. Of course that was before AO was even on the drawing board I guess. That is probably why I hold most of them today in such reviling. They whine when they cant always win or insta kill or if anyone DARES threaten any unfair advantage they might have.

A noticable lack of the abillity to pick themselves up off the ground when they get steamrolled and go damn.. he was pretty good. I'll get him next time. I suppose that goes hand in hand with the game was and then is now.. Once it was an experience, now its just a "thing" to do so you can "dominate".

I know.. the 21th century.. the century of EMO!

You know what my introduction to PVP was? Spending the first week as little more than GIBS on the floor. Seriously if you cant stand the heat... leave the kitchen people. Especially in AO where things have been refined by a decade of player knowledge to the point that it is so finely honed that it is stagnant and uninteresting, predictable. I loved fights on BS where I didnt know if I was going to win or loose.. but realisticly today excepting one very equally built agent I can know after the first shots which way the fight will go with way to much accuracy.

The BEST part of these changes FC is doing is what I hope will invalidate YEARS of built up knowledege that results in "THE PVP SPECCED CHARACTERS". First off, the best designed game will not have one spec for PVM and one for PVP. Even if eventually one developes usually it will either get nerfbatted or in the ideal sense it will be a specialist that will lack dynamic playabillity and only be good in one situation. With all the Sttatflation we have had AO became a place where being specialized was perfect because FC lkept releasing things that removed any downside associated with it.

Anyways Long Rant short. There is NOTHING wrong with posting commentary about the changes.. as Genelle said.. it is valuable. But if you REALLY care about making the game better then you will constrain the MEMEMMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEEMMEEMEMEM OH PICK MEE! attitude for one of lets help everyone. IT will be far more constructive and produce the best possible result that we, as players, can affect on FCs Devs. In the long run it will always be up to them to make the right decision but right now they have a better picture of where they are taking the game than we do. Probably for the first time in years the devs are on a roadmap that we as the players havn't even wrapped our heads about properly. For a long time we knew more than they did overall. We understood the ways and means of PVP better. We understood every dirty trick and advantageous level. Every way to take advantage of GAS Timers, etc.

If FC really pulls out the stops and turns the game on its head then it will be nothing short of wonderful and amazing. And if those people who cannot handle not winning leave the game. Perhaps then it is for the best for the community. I am still waiting for someone to call me an FC suck up or fanboi when I have launched burning and scathing tyrades at them on plenty of occasion. Hold their feet to the fire but do it the RIGHT way, stop whinning and bitching in an unconstructive manner. Look for the new perspective. Ask the questions to get the concept of where they are going fixed better in your head then you can start to haul them up short and say heeeeyyy nowwww.. I see what you did thar.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

hear hear.

well said.

There are lots of interesting things going on. I'm excited.

[Gunfytr]

There are lots of interesting things going on. I'm excited.

Best post in the thread.

[Etyris]

None can question your passion for AO, Meaty. Part of the rebalancing effort is giving accurate feedback to the devs, and there is a common misconception out there right now around PvP durability for enfs. Maybe it is a bit too high but it is not for me to say, and when we get some sustained PvP damage so we don't have to resort to alpha and flee, no question some downward adjustments will have to be made. That's the trick with the rebalancing forums, everything is conjecture at this point because we only have a piece of the puzzle.

To say that we can tank 5 other PvPers in reasonable specs either means one of four things:

1) Outran them, or they desynced and lost track of us.
2) They're serious gimps.
3) We got healed.
4) They're just... gimps.

If it's 1 it will be fixed by the runspeed normalization, if it's 2 and 4 will nevah be fixed and if it's 3 then they should have killed the doc

Please understand that enfs don't tank 5 players, we run from them.

[meatybtz]

Ill give you some ground that in the large furballs on BS it is hard to see ANYTHING, let alone notice someone healing you... (especially with your head in the ceiling).

However there are ways to essentially counter damage by removing HP then readding it. It is an old trick that I have seen at least 2 of our best use to appear to quite litterally self heal from less than half HP back to full repeatadly.

That and considering that any half-baked enfo will have at least 3.2k static def, in the current perk system... that is enough to muscle out anyone who isnt a pure PVP spec or just a natural high AR prof. Our NR is enough that I have countered doubles plenty let alone paltry nukes from Crats and MPs. An NT casting the NR debuff on us takes time and our high initial NR does make landing it somewhat of a pure chance thing. If they get it to land quickly we are doomed. If they fail to a few times we can be in good shape for as long as it takes for them to debuff our NR.

There is quite a difference between stat comparisons in a mass PVP encounter where not everyones perks are up at once vs getting 5 people to stand round with full alphas and hit you. In the latter you die, in the former you can usually kill a few before you run out of tricks and their alphas start to get ready and you run off. Pretty much proc-roots and snares will be the only thing to land and slow us down when we beat feet to get out and recharge.

[heartless888]

i wouldnt worry about enf so much, with so many solds in mass pvp enfs are always being kept at bay, while not getting insta splaterd as opposed to when a soldier tanks people then one of the 4 nemesis shows up

the question is, is it ok for an enf to be able to tank 4 people until a soldier of equal skill/gear or agent shows up? is it balanced? should an enf not be able to tank seeing it is THE tank class of the game? should situations like this be ok because soldiers got such a huge advantage on enfs? should enfs be a bit gimpier and solds have a harder time on them? this goes for a lot of senarios in pvp right now BUT, putting that aside, before you bash enfs and say nerf enfs because they tank 5 people for 30 seconds, look at NTs and ranged advies, suddenly, you dont care about enfs believe me.

[schloops]

... BUT, putting that aside, before you bash enfs and say nerf enfs because they tank 5 people for 30 seconds, look at NTs and ranged advies, suddenly, you dont care about enfs believe me.

Not a nerf enfo post, but I strongly advise against tanking 5 people for 30s on a off focus (le nuke) nt... it really isn't the great plan it sounds .

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I agree with previous poster, no enf is going to tank 5 people with their full alpha up.

However, I'd like to mention my frustration with enfs now, which is that on my full end game MA, my FULL alpha will only reduce a enf to about 50-60% health, that is including hotswaps.

Without my full alpha up (about 100% of the time on BS), if I run into an enf, I usually just ignore him unless he's already at a reduced health, because my alpha takes about 25-30 secodns to execute, with, extremely long charging buffs like moonmist, which, I'm sure takes about 5 seconds to execute, along with all other MA perks which have retarded length as well.

So, generally, its not worth fighting them.

As for tanking 5 people, advies, and particularly ranged advies with extra evade room seem to be more than adequately prepared to run around having 4-6 people give chase, and unles there is a doc or trader in those chasers, the advy just won't go down.

5 on 1 and the advy doesn't die? come on FC, it's time for a change.
same with a sold during AMS. I'd like to see a max reflect cap of 90%. period, 10% damage always gets through. If a sold has 5 people whacking him through AMS, He should be taking serious damage... as it is now, for 1:40, solds are indestructible. Some changes to BR and nukes should be on order though to balance it out.

[Gatester]

However, I'd like to mention my frustration with enfs now, which is that on my full end game MA, my FULL alpha will only reduce a enf to about 50-60% health, that is including hotswaps.

You aren't supposed to, no one is supposed to. Shades make short work of enfs usually, mine does and its funny that enfs are one of the 4 profs I can kill frequently, but as long as enforcers cannot heal their massive health, you should not be alphaing it easily. Honestly, how many professions take 2 minutes to fully heal?


As far as enforcers being nerfed in the future, tbh I do not see it. They mentioned only a few things for enforcers in our profession forum, but what should be considered the most important news for enfs is a revamping of attack ratings from the ground up. Enforcers should be taken well care of in regards to our attack rating.