Friday with Means - May 20th, 2011: No to Spawn Camping

[Cyberleet]

{removed}.

Some of this is an issue with gaps between players.

A lot go to the BS for the sole purpose of pvp. It's not fun to play with gaps, where lets say a casual player stand no chance vs a twink. Therefore the gap between players should be decreased.

However you would think, this being the future, pets would have some counter to this.

I think humans would outsmart machines once they learn their patterns. Especially bio-engineered humans.

If you jump on a box to avoid a pet, it delays him forever, unless its owner stops the pet from attacking, jumps on the box with you, casts pet warp, and starts attack again (pet probably falls off box at this point).

So rather make this process faster and easier to execute then?

There is areas on bs where pet-professions have the definite upperhand, which is balanced. They (pet classes) all can immobilize your movement temporary aswell.

[Tanana]

Wow, instead of actually fixing pet pathing and spawn camping, you use such band aids that will make BS even more dull then it is today.

The most exciting fights I had were in those long corridors (yes, even with currently sucky pet pathing), that you are planning to remove now. Well, screw that.

Bump this post.

So intead of giving the players what they wanted in terms of more varied BS maps with new, exciting and interesting features you make the current boring PF smaller?

Can't count the amount of times I've been able to lol at some guy thats run away from me headed down the corridor, I've used the teleport to core to get ahead of him and kill him.

And the machines at the warps are great, providing cover and protection from many different opponents. I could use those to great advantage against professions such as Enfo/Adv/MA on my TL5 Engie. Just keep spamming your blind and jumping from different machines, it's what a blind is for, to make it more difficult for your opponent to navigate terraine!

Ahhh..good memories, haven't had a decent run of BS for 5-6 months now, kinda miss it.

[Cyberleet]

3. Removal/Smoothing of bridge and ramp areas around core. The circular ramp in core and the "bridge" type structure outside core are going to be smoothed out to remove the unneeded confusion they provide to pet pathing.

Some need it! And the tunnel is of great use. Those pet-profession can kill those at a, for them, more opulent place? Is plenty of those... and AoE-rooting gonne be wild now, wow. ;p

Some professions stealth/snipe/ambush/evac/chase, they are apart of the game too.

1-This game allows for AFEWPEOPLE to make optimized PvP twinks against which other toons have no chance of winning, often even in a group/team. "L2P" and "gomakeadecenttoon" are trollish nonarguments. A noob has no chance in hell to farm some of the gear needed to twink. He will always be at a huge disadvantage. Similarly a leveling toon of a more knowledgeable player will have still a great disadvantage compared to a PvP specific toon. Not only can the toon not be optimized for PvP but it also doesnt make sense to waste countless hours farming gear that becomes obsolete a few levels later. The result is that most AO players ARE NOT INTERESTED IN PVP most of the time.

2-The BS is the only viable source of VPs, specially after the introduction of AI dailies, it is near impossible to find teams for mothership missions. If we include the huge daily reward for Bor missions it becomes OBVIOUSLY OBVIOUS why people NOT INTERESTED IN PVP with TOONS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE COMPETITIVE in PvP go to the battlestations. THEY DONT WANT TO PVP, THEY WANT TO FARM VP, DO THE DAILY AND GO AWAY FROM THERE.

3-There are many different steps that can be taken to solve the problem of PvPTWINKS versus NonPvP toons in the battlestations. One easy solution would be to allow the non PvP crowd to go farm their VPs and daily mission elsewhere. This would kill the BSs do to lack of cannonfooder, not a problem for most people, but a gigantic whine fest for the few people who spent countless hours sitting !afk in kite hill paying 2 mill per level. The same amount of time spamming trade channels with WTB Igocs, RBPs, full sets of Combined armor and LR for a few nodrops. And even more time camping a few grey dynas with their mains in SL. It is for these people and for them alone that this game is adjusted to. Existing content is adjusted for their camping pleasure and new content is added for their camping pleasure. Other possible, but harder and more difficult to implement solutions would be to reduce the disparity between toons, making PvP optimized toons impossible and/or reducing the huge disparity between toons. Making the gameplay mechanics less dependent on gear/profession and more on skill/luck. Changing gameplay mechanics to bring PvP gameplay and PvM gameplay nearer togheter. Changing the gameplay so that people need to play their toons to have a good toon instead of forcing noobs to grind countless hours for very subpar gear while veterans can almost intapop a hardcore PvP twink. To make a game where many, including new, players are interested in PvP will require a complete remaking of most of the game. Never gonna happen. Therefore the BS will be adjusted and readjusted while the real issues why it sucks will never be adressed.

4-I like to play my toons, none of them is or will ever be a PvP twink, I simply dont have the patience to leave a toon sitting on kite hill for days or logging my main every 20 minutes to instakill a grey mob for months. I am simply an average player, who likes to play his toons. Therefore I will go into the battlestations and I will 4cap everytime I can and APT in decon everytime I cannot. And all the whinning tears of the spawncampers who go into a rage because they loose the easy kills are as sweet to me as the whinnings of spawncamped noobs are for them. FU

In short, I think they should speed up the old game/getting stuffz.

Create team-dailies with a gigiantic loot-table (and profession nanopacks) and dreadloch-bosses (with hp/damage balanced to the mission-level) as the end-encounter so we get upgraded ofab and weapons/LE-nanos + rk-lootz. Dreadloch bosses were fun to fight, more fun than inf/rk-bosses

+ more QL 300 stuffz for people. Some stuffz should be shop-unique tho.

Composite team-dailies (that generates ai-raid, le-mission, apf-zone, sl-thing etc randomly) could also speed up so more players get the levels/axp/research and lootstuffz in the same go, and faster. It's really fun to play the game with a 220/30/70 with full alpha's and a complete repetoir or level up a toon that works!

This way people get stuff as they level up/play the game. IE, more players can customize a charracter for pvp and also have a repetoir. Due to SL-leveling, kiting and dailies without huge rk loot-table, most players don't really play with the toolset and potential of their profession.

And what makes the game so unique, the 10-year old repetoir, is not obtained. The items aren't produced into the gameworld as the content is not played and is unintresting in 2011.

And just lol @ having to play doc/enfo/soldier/crat to get xan-stuffz for alts/mains...FC and their sloppy implementations

[Luziciona]

Imho, the main problem for BS is not enough players.
How about off/def buff to those lower than max level(in the BS range)?
And/or a hp/nano buff, abilities..?

I do know this might be somewhat tricky to implement, and it will be abused, but please try!

Most level 160-180ish, do the daily and GTFO.
Few people like going splatt in seconds.
The way I see it, that is why BS is empty.

[Gatester]

Wow, instead of actually fixing pet pathing and spawn camping, you use such band aids that will make BS even more dull then it is today.

The most exciting fights I had were in those long corridors (yes, even with currently sucky pet pathing), that you are planning to remove now. Well, screw that.

P.S.
I wonder, how will you deal with actual TELEPORT CAMPING now, since it will be the only option to get to the core?

Back when you played there was an actual population to fill those corridors! The area is larger than the largest tower playfields but generally contains a fraction of the number pvping in them. Too big PF needs to be smaller

Teleport camping could be pointless too, afterall you will likely be able to warp from decon to right outside core. I just wonder if we will actually get a map for BS now or not, or whether it would be good to have one.

[lainbr]

They (pet classes) all can immobilize your movement temporary aswell.

I LOL'd. MP's != restrict movement

[Johnnykay]

I LOL'd. MP's != restrict movement

OP rootgrafts

[Alternity]

Why not just make BS a square flat room, with zero obstacles while your at it? ;D

[Gatester]

I LOL'd. MP's != restrict movement

pfft, you gotta spam CoC...well when you aren't in SS recharge...or freeing your pets from CC tools...still, it does land as often as it does!



Imagine a PF where players could use switches and raise barriers or force fields, trapping other players and interrupting their movements. Sounds fun to me

[Kamarar]

Sounds fun to me

I remember when we used to shoot the wild life for a great time. Now we just shoot each other and whine.

[LyrLazarus]

Friday with Means Seinfeld

"It's a post about nothing!"

[Cyberleet]

friday with means seinfeld

"it's a post about nothing!"

lol!

[Traderjill]

Some players like to play stealth and take out single-targets.

When you go to battlestations you are expected to use your profession's toolset to win the battle. I didn't say anything differently. You can do that within the context of a raid interface where one side is actually working against the other side.

My point was that battlestatons was advertised as a side versus side encounter and many people go there and do not care about helping people on their side but focus on farming farming solo kills.. usually off the weaker folks in their opposition.

And yes, killing people from the opposite side helps to win.. I'm referring to the people that are just there to drag BS out as long as possible and farm kills .. only assisting with the main objective of BS by accident as their main objective is increasing their solo kill count.

[Xyphos]

So you're a fan of passive fighting then? /duel?

yes I am!
fighting passively gives me a chance to study my opponent and counter their attacks. the more I fight the same person, the more I learn, and I develop better tactics.
also by not attacking someone first, I appear to be weak to the opponent, but really I'm strong.

as for the duel, anytime on RK1.

[Frubaliscious]

yes I am!
fighting passively gives me a chance to study my opponent and counter their attacks. the more I fight the same person, the more I learn, and I develop better tactics.
also by not attacking someone first, I appear to be weak to the opponent, but really I'm strong.

as for the duel, anytime on RK1.

you should check out turn based games then

[Ctrlaltwin]

Battlestation in general lacks sense to me. I support them making the changes to stop spawn camping; however, as I said there is something lacking here. People get spawn camped for a reason, and to me that reason is that people are: afk'ers, undergeared, not trying, and/or not teamed.

Then I look at the overall picture:

Why do you duel? To get duel wins, to show the skill of your player in fair 1v1
Why do Notum War? Towers, large raids, something to actually FIGHT for (side xp, pride)
Why do battle station? ... Kind of like duals while solo, but nothing to actually fight for like NW. A few extra points is not a valid reasoning, and there is no pride to bringing your side to victory.

Battle station is like an instanced battleground that has way too much solo pvp, and when a team gets half-coordinated they usually create an advantage. One that is much more obvious then spawn camping.

In short - solo PvP in battlestation should get removed, and made into team PvP.

There should be more mechanics in place like giving more points for capping, for getting kills, and for healing. Reward people, and remove the duel style so people in teams create a large disadvantage to the opposing side. If you want solo pvp, do duels. If you want large scale PvP, go NW.

[Gunfytr]

In short - solo PvP in battlestation should get removed, and made into team PvP.

There should be more mechanics in place like giving more points for capping, for getting kills, and for healing. Reward people, and remove the duel style so people in teams create a large disadvantage to the opposing side. If you want solo pvp, do duels. If you want large scale PvP, go NW.

Completely disagree. Team pvp is easy mode /on, and /duel is 90% of time prof based. BS allows me to test my skills and my toon on an open playfield on a wide variety of opponants. IMO solo kills should give more credit than team because its a ton more difficult.

And btw, who are you to tell me how to play my game?

[Lusos101]

Bull, and I mean of a bull. Or BoviNe CrAp if you prefer. Farming green and undergeared toons is neither skill nor a challenge. Its Epeen stroking pure and simple.


And before you give me the "IM NOT LIKE THAT" crap I can tell you. I have seen you in the battlestations. You dont shy away from easy kills neither. Although to be frank you are not one of the worst.

[Ctrlaltwin]

Completely disagree. Team pvp is easy mode /on, and /duel is 90% of time prof based. BS allows me to test my skills and my toon on an open playfield on a wide variety of opponants. IMO solo kills should give more credit than team because its a ton more difficult.

And btw, who are you to tell me how to play my game?

I don't care if you go off and do your own thing, the whole concept of Battlestation is two opposing sides working toward a TEAM objective.

Any 21st century MMO would look at this, and automatically see that this is a battleground(station). There is absolutely no reason why there should NOT be teaming right off the bat.

I get you want to test your skill, but that is the flaw in the game. You either take duel losses, or fight in often times un-evened battlestation. There should be dual "practices" and maybe a warm-up to battlestation (to get more members in, but reduce points to win= 350).

This hits my main point - Battlestation often times is unbalanced. If you: pick better countering professions, work as a team, cap instead of fight, chain snare/root, and/or spawn camp you increase your chance to win. This often time creates unfair BS, and the # of good balanced fights is unfair.

Battlestation is a PvP zone with team objectives, and where teams often time win. If you want to leave that team fine, but let's see how much you enjoy getting farmed/picked off. Please, let's fix battlestation and add a team component. If people want to leave team, GOOD LUCK!

Solo PvP and team PvP are almost one in the same. Call it "random pvp" and merge it. Spawn camping is only the tip of the iceberg of Battlestation issues.

[Xeralix]

i don't like the point B at all, it will remove some strategic possibiliy in BS (counter teleport campers) and i don't see what's so negative to keep these area open even if we can teleport to others points...