Balanced ways to reduce Enforcer and Soldier mass pvp/pvm surviviability?

[Gatester]

Ok, so I believe a general consensus can be determined from this thread.

Enforcers and soldiers ability to handle a lot of damage in mass pvp is ok, they are tanking professions in pvm and with support they can also tank exceptionally well in pvp. I am suprised more people are not jumping on the "Yeah lets nerf enfs and soldiers" banwagon, and I am able to get a good idea of what people think is fair and unfair in regards to enforcers at least in mass pvp.

Overall a good thread minus a few crusaders in the mix Feel free to continue on with it ofc, but I have gotten what I needed.

[MyGift]

I still do think enfs are waaaay OP in pvp... Just wanna point up that today i was spaming ASs on enf along with doc who did AS+Malp for ~ 4-5 min on BS while he just sit and laugh. After 4-5 min he just walked away cause he was obviously bored. My ASs (with 2700ish AS skill) wasnt caping ( they took 20 % of hp proxy). So atm only thing that can hurt their massive HP + HOTs+ apsorbs etc is soljas FA. With 3ish k def they wont cap either in most cases.

So enfs that was posting here how they suck in mass pvp and how they can be taken down easy, plz send tell to forz | artani | Marbreth and ask them how they do it. Cause to take any of them down u need 6 man team shooting on them for 5 min...and in the end they just ran away.

[Hacre]

I still do think enfs are waaaay OP in pvp... Just wanna point up that today i was spaming ASs on enf along with doc who did AS+Malp for ~ 4-5 min on BS while he just sit and laugh. After 4-5 min he just walked away cause he was obviously bored. My ASs (with 2700ish AS skill) wasnt caping ( they took 20 % of hp proxy). So atm only thing that can hurt their massive HP + HOTs+ apsorbs etc is soljas FA. With 3ish k def they wont cap either in most cases.

So enfs that was posting here how they suck in mass pvp and how they can be taken down easy, plz send tell to forz | artani | Marbreth and ask them how they do it. Cause to take any of them down u need 6 man team shooting on them for 5 min...and in the end they just ran away.

You seem to be forgetting the effects of absorbs and reflects.

You, with that AS skill, sound like an Agent. Your AS caps more often than not, don't start lying just to try and get Enforcers nerfed.

I know what it's like to be up against a Soldier and I'd say that's nemesis enough for Enforcers. They're big tanks and should be able to soak up damage especially with some support involved and as such it should take a coordinated effort to take them down.

[Kinkst44h]

I still do think enfs are waaaay OP in pvp... Just wanna point up that today i was spaming ASs on enf along with doc who did AS+Malp for ~ 4-5 min on BS while he just sit and laugh. After 4-5 min he just walked away cause he was obviously bored. My ASs (with 2700ish AS skill) wasnt caping ( they took 20 % of hp proxy). So atm only thing that can hurt their massive HP + HOTs+ apsorbs etc is soljas FA. With 3ish k def they wont cap either in most cases.

So enfs that was posting here how they suck in mass pvp and how they can be taken down easy, plz send tell to forz | artani | Marbreth and ask them how they do it. Cause to take any of them down u need 6 man team shooting on them for 5 min...and in the end they just ran away.

I find no possible reason how an agent cannot kill an enforcer who is doing nothing, for 4-5 minutes, with doc help.

This just cannot happen.

[Gatester]

I still do think enfs are waaaay OP in pvp... Just wanna point up that today i was spaming ASs on enf along with doc who did AS+Malp for ~ 4-5 min on BS while he just sit and laugh. After 4-5 min he just walked away cause he was obviously bored. My ASs (with 2700ish AS skill) wasnt caping ( they took 20 % of hp proxy). So atm only thing that can hurt their massive HP + HOTs+ apsorbs etc is soljas FA. With 3ish k def they wont cap either in most cases.

So enfs that was posting here how they suck in mass pvp and how they can be taken down easy, plz send tell to forz | artani | Marbreth and ask them how they do it. Cause to take any of them down u need 6 man team shooting on them for 5 min...and in the end they just ran away.

Please roll something besides an agent. Your information is totally incorrect.

[Mereditche]

Ok, so I believe a general consensus can be determined from this thread.

Enforcers and soldiers ability to handle a lot of damage in mass pvp is ok, they are tanking professions in pvm and with support they can also tank exceptionally well in pvp. I am suprised more people are not jumping on the "Yeah lets nerf enfs and soldiers" banwagon, and I am able to get a good idea of what people think is fair and unfair in regards to enforcers at least in mass pvp.

Overall a good thread minus a few crusaders in the mix Feel free to continue on with it ofc, but I have gotten what I needed.

Well, I was under the impression most people in this thread think enfo defenses were too OP. How strange.

[DaChains]

Please roll something besides an agent. Your information is totally incorrect.

Just a curiosity why do you make a thread about enforcers and !!soldiers!! when your sig shows you have a 220/23 enf only.... ?

[Moonbolt]

I still do think enfs are waaaay OP in pvp... Just wanna point up that today i was spaming ASs on enf along with doc who did AS+Malp for ~ 4-5 min on BS while he just sit and laugh. After 4-5 min he just walked away cause he was obviously bored. My ASs (with 2700ish AS skill) wasnt caping ( they took 20 % of hp proxy). So atm only thing that can hurt their massive HP + HOTs+ apsorbs etc is soljas FA. With 3ish k def they wont cap either in most cases.

So enfs that was posting here how they suck in mass pvp and how they can be taken down easy, plz send tell to forz | artani | Marbreth and ask them how they do it. Cause to take any of them down u need 6 man team shooting on them for 5 min...and in the end they just ran away.

this is a flat out lie or ur using a ql 50 caterwaul ...
i get how an enforcer can kill an agent.
me and srompu for example while fighting i prolly wins 70% of the times. that is when i acn catch him and i dont lag out.
but i do know that it his perks + AS hurts.
if i dont get him down fast enough im gonna start feeling those 10K ASs pretty darn soon.

[Gatester]

Just a curiosity why do you make a thread about enforcers and !!soldiers!! when your sig shows you have a 220/23 enf only.... ?

While I was raiding/RLing tarasque I noticed soldiers doing similar things as my enforcer.

While other profs would get eaten up with a well timed combo, my enforcer could run into the blob of omni, go straight for the doc, alpha/fail to alpha, and run back out all with IMUB running.

Soldiers were able to sit in the frontlines with AMS running, get up to the door or just inside the room, fire off some damage and perks and do well as long as they were healed. Once AMS started to go down they would run back into the friendly blob and wait for AMS recharge.

As far as pvm goes, my enf tanked Pande with a social armor on (I believe it was the Hero suit)and 2 pre-220 doctors and a crat.... Soldiers can also do some incredible tanking with single mob/boss encounters.


I did not want to make a thread about only one of the two main tanking profs, as I wanted to see opinions on both in regards to this as well as pvm raiding. I think pvm is too easy, and I think enforcers and soldiers survive incredibly well in many mass pvp encounters and wanted to see whether everyone thought this was a good or bad thing. Also keep in mind, I did not make any actual suggestions regarding soldiers asside from possibly adding more reflect ripping to bosses, and I even suggested nerfing NSD (engie reflect ripper) but made it more reliable which I think would actually benefit soldiers.


@ Mereditche, the ability to run away is not OP. If just surviving was so dangerous then the #1 profession would be fixer. I dare you to say Fixers are OP and mean it Most people complain about Rage and NR (OMG we have a nice nano nerf it lol), but if everyone hates it so much give me a perkline for 100% root/snare resistance instead. Others might not care for it as much but I think I would be happy with it

[MyGift]

Please roll something besides an agent. Your information is totally incorrect.

I played 220 MA shade agent keeper crat and now opi agent and i know what im talking about. I dont care if some noob enfs crying on this forum how they get owned by solider and agent caping FA/AS on them. Thats their problem. Im not talking about those enfs. Im talking about those(rare but still) with 3k+ def in end game gear with 1hb setups. You dont cap AS or FA on them. Sometimes u do but there are more non cap then caped attacks. And again im gonna say im not against enfs having ability to tank 10 ppl but in that case having best alpha in game and awsome dmg in pvp,ar over 3500 (almost over 9000 :P ) is something that needs to go...

[Gunfytr]

Soldiers were able to sit in the frontlines with AMS running, get up to the door or just inside the room, fire off some damage and perks and do well as long as they were healed. Once AMS started to go down they would run back into the friendly blob and wait for AMS recharge.

Ancient history...and no longer applicable. Not by a looooong stretch.

[Gatester]

I played 220 MA shade agent keeper crat and now opi agent and i know what im talking about. I dont care if some noob enfs crying on this forum how they get owned by solider and agent caping FA/AS on them. Thats their problem. Im not talking about those enfs. Im talking about those(rare but still) with 3k+ def in end game gear with 1hb setups. You dont cap AS or FA on them. Sometimes u do but there are more non cap then caped attacks. And again im gonna say im not against enfs having ability to tank 10 ppl but in that case having best alpha in game and awsome dmg in pvp,ar over 3500 (almost over 9000 :P ) is something that needs to go...

Rare 3k+ def, 3500 AR enfs is right, I'm not sure how many enfs we have atm with 4 250 towers adding AR and defensive skills.

Look at my sig, look at my gear. Now add a def research instead of offense research and ofab shoulder and HH@B. You now have 2650ish def and about 2970 AR with challenger (3250 with procs and using def hud). Now please show me a setup with 3k+ defense and 3500 AR, and ill even toss in 100 free wep skill from CoLI


P.S.
Don't agents have like 3200 def, 3300 AR, 25k max health and 3500 AS?

[Gatester]

Ancient history...and no longer applicable. Not by a looooong stretch.

Ancient would be 5 months ago but possibly true, although I am not sure what would stop it, engie NSD will not reach those soldiers so the problem would be a large increase in tl7 traders and NTs.

I do believe I have seen a lot more traders though lol.

[Moonbolt]

this is a calc made with 2 IGoCs, 6 pieces of CC, enf ofab back and special helmet, full alphas etc.

1180 AAD + 200 from highway is what is possible as an enf to get.

same setup would have 1561 evades.

it brings an enf with highway up to a total of 2941 def.

the same setup would have 2992 AR w/o challanger, 3293 AR w/ challanger,

this is calced for 1hb + CoLI maxed and in the best possible setup i could think of and w/o towers, since towers are pure situational and nothing to depend on.

im not counting procs either since they to are pure luck when they proc and usually only go off against profs where we dont need them.

w/o imub an enf in the same setup will have around 35k health and a 189 HD tick.

so im sorry to say this i dont see enforcers running around with 3700+ AR and 3500+ AAD at the same time.
unless they are teamed with trader+crat, but im pretty sure everyone agrees that teaming with support professions should give boosts.

also as u are claiming atm that the AS isnt capping due to high enf def is a flat out lie again since AS isnt affected of def.
so i think u need to work on ur AS skill instead of complaining about enfs AAD.

[MyGift]

also as u are claiming atm that the AS isnt capping due to high enf def is a flat out lie again since AS isnt affected of def.
so i think u need to work on ur AS skill instead of complaining about enfs AAD.

I never said that. I said FA aint caping due to alot of def and huge HP. And i know that i rarely cap AS on enf with 2700ish AS skill.

I rly don't feel like arguing anymore cause whatever i say some enf will find some lame answer how they sux or how they are fine atm. Fact that atm most seen profession on BS is Enf,Doc,Range advy speak for itself. Its well known that whenever something in AO is OP suddenly everyone play it(ofc there are some old school guys that plays all the time so this is not for them :P ).Just do one test for me.

Just take enf and attack it with all other professions one by one untill u kill him. Then count all time needed to kill it with all those professions.

Now do that with any other profession instead of enf,with same attackers, count time needed to kill it and tell me there is something else that can stand longer then enf. (only doc or engi could proly since they are OP too)

About enf offense pretty much everyone agreed that its wickedly OP (if 1hb 1he) so no need to talk about it.


Also the fact that in other topic where ppl rated all professions with OP, Balanced, Nerfed 90% of those posts had doc engi enf in OP section.

[sultryvoltron]

Don't agents have like 3200 def, 3300 AR, 25k max health and 3500 AS?

Yep, but only one at a time. It's like the old addage: you can have the job done good, fast, or cheap. Only, instead of picking two, Agents get to pick one.

[Daiken]

I find no possible reason how an agent cannot kill an enforcer who is doing nothing, for 4-5 minutes, with doc help.

This just cannot happen.

Ive seen my org mate cut an enf in 2 within matter of seconds on his agent, reroll pls ^^

[Kinkst44h]

I never said that. I said FA aint caping due to alot of def and huge HP. And i know that i rarely cap AS on enf with 2700ish AS skill.

You're doing it wrong. You're just making it up. I mean really. I know, for a fact, as a completely perfectly geared Agent, and a completely perfectly geared enforcer at the same time that this just isnt reality, lol.

I rly don't feel like arguing anymore cause whatever i say some enf will find some lame answer how they sux or how they are fine atm. Fact that atm most seen profession on BS is Enf,Doc,Range advy speak for itself. Its well known that whenever something in AO is OP suddenly everyone play it(ofc there are some old school guys that plays all the time so this is not for them :P ).Just do one test for me.

This is true, except I really don't see tons of enforcers that are actually good. Each server has maybe a half a handful that arent completely horrible.

Just take enf and attack it with all other professions one by one untill u kill him. Then count all time needed to kill it with all those professions.

Now do that with any other profession instead of enf,with same attackers, count time needed to kill it and tell me there is something else that can stand longer then enf. (only doc or engi could proly since they are OP too) [/quote]

Depends on what you are attacking it with. Enforcers have a "good" defence against everyone. They have no massive weakness, but they have no amazing strength when it comes to their def, too.

The above quote is dumb, because you could argue that a melee advy takes FOREVER to kill an Agent (as in, they cant) or a Keeper takes FOREVER to kill an Agent, because, they cant... when both classes will eventually take an enf down. Does that mean Agent defence is > Enforcer? No. Unless you're in some crazy silly land.

About enf offense pretty much everyone agreed that its wickedly OP (if 1hb 1he) so no need to talk about it.

See any enfs with 10,000+ solo kills? I dont know many. Its a good alpha if it lands. Once a minute, or so, more if you rely on FOT stuns (5 minutes lol) This pales in comparison in the real world compared to AS, FA, Double/Etc. You just rack up a lot more kills with these abilities than you do an enforcer alpha which can be dodged, is melee, has a lot of variables to land, slow recharge etc.

Also the fact that in other topic where ppl rated all professions with OP, Balanced, Nerfed 90% of those posts had doc engi enf in OP section.

The classes in the game currently arent too unabalanced. Theres far too much stupid in this "Balance Discussion" threads and you see good ideas get buried between mountains of stupid going on, which is really disheartening if you are one of the people who knows wtf they are talking about.

[Gatester]

Yep, but only one at a time. It's like the old addage: you can have the job done good, fast, or cheap. Only, instead of picking two, Agents get to pick one.

NO WAYS!!! Here I thought agents had these crazy stats because everyone says so and ofc, I never try to figure it out on my own

Depends on what you are attacking it with. Enforcers have a "good" defence against everyone. They have no massive weakness, but they have no amazing strength when it comes to their def, too.

The best description of enforcer defense in pvp really. Even the argument of high NR fails when you take into account that debuffs and drains will still land, and then we are just as crippled as the next guy. If anything, our pvp fear nano is our strongest defense now in that it gives us a ranged pvp CC tool, I just wish it wasn't such a long lockout. I believe, however, that because of our high health that we do make the best use of healer support over any other profession.

Something I am worried about though, interruptable AS's and profs that practically rely on AS to kill enforcers or other melee profs. Perhaps it is bad game mechanics that support profs are using AS as their main offense in pvp, but I hope agents at least will still use some sort of AS effectively against enforcers.

The classes in the game currently arent too unabalanced. Theres far too much stupid in this "Balance Discussion" threads and you see good ideas get buried between mountains of stupid going on, which is really disheartening if you are one of the people who knows wtf they are talking about.

I have been able to pick out the players that usually make sense Seems that for every 1 intelligent player on forums you have 2 countering troll and 10 idiots and ofc 1 guy that just stirs up trouble. I think I have shifted between all 4 frequently enough