AMS Idea

[Gunfytr]

soldiers only have to worry about NTs and traders.

If there is a trader on BS AT ALL, then a soldier doesnt DARE use AMS. That means my one/best/only viable Defense is worth exactly NOTHING. Nothing...zero, zilch, null...it means that a soldier has to rely on cobbled together crap, such as HD, as many reflects as we can find on items, ect. It means that the "most effective defense in the game" suddenly ISNT THERE. Yeah, imagine if, say there was a nano, that checked against a fixers FA skill,(dark blue, but u still max it cause u need it and use what u can get), that removed 100% of his evades...and all he had left was his HoTs, and gave his opponant 5000 evades. Wow, that means the fixer is screwed, and cant kill his opponant, and is effectively defenceless. Well, thats whats its like when a sol gets BR'd. (What ever DID happen to that Cold Damage hole in BR, anyway??)

Nts...hmm...if they made doubles and triples adhere to the 30% rule, I wouldnt have an issue with them....but, it is what it is.

[Moonbolt]

ok.. so u dont dare to use AMS if the trader is in BS?.
wth... just use AMS.. if he steals it u die... w/e .
takes 15 secs in d-con room and u can start fighting again.
its not like i wet myself and run every time i see a soldier. sure they prolly gonna FA me to death long before their AMS is out but i still try.
u dont think its fair that theres 2 professions that can kill soldiers aswell?

[Questra]

ok.. so u dont dare to use AMS if the trader is in BS?.
wth... just use AMS.. if he steals it u die... w/e .
takes 15 secs in d-con room and u can start fighting again.

A team player doesn't just hand a trader invulnerability for 30 seconds. If you were in my BS team and I left you a trader with 30s free to halve your AR, GTH you, and start ASing you down, would you like me?

The best PvP soldiers are team players, we've had to be with the introduction of all the extra nemesis nanos, and we had to be before LE too, when we were running around with a 3 year old blue dildo failing to kill anything other than gimps and greens.

[Gunfytr]

u dont think its fair that theres 2 professions that can kill soldiers aswell?

There are 14 proffs out there with the tools to kill a soldier...it all depends on the player. Im not a top PvP soldier, but I can hold my own. ANY Endgame toon not run by a moron has a chance to beat an equally equipped soldier, if ur smart.


@ Questra: Before the Shark came out, I was BS'in with a Hawk mk5 and a onehander....praise be that THOSE days are over!

edit: I dont think its FAIR that a prof has the ability to totally strip away another proffs defence. (Yes, this goes for RI and GTH, also)

[Daiken]

IMHO.
Soldiers should be able to cast a nano after (read - AFTER) AMS, during their downtime.
The thought has come to mind to boost the soldiers HP (healed) for a short period of time and then comes with a DoT, if played in a team your only hope of survival (if you choose to use the so called new nano) is someone healing you.
ah sort of "battle endurance".

[Manicmouse]

RI should be only fixed for what it is. For HOTs. And all support profs will be happy.

Do you even read the forums? FC has stated that RI is to prevent CH. That argument has been and gone. Get up to speed buddy.

IMHO.
Soldiers should be able to cast a nano after (read - AFTER) AMS, during their downtime.
The thought has come to mind to boost the soldiers HP (healed) for a short period of time and then comes with a DoT, if played in a team your only hope of survival (if you choose to use the so called new nano) is someone healing you.
ah sort of "battle endurance".

Daiken is right imo, change the nano shutdown duration to 1 min 20 and add a timer for AMS. Gives us a little more survivability in downtime.

[Neccoz]

Daiken is right imo, change the nano shutdown duration to 1 min 20 and add a timer for AMS. Gives us a little more survivability in downtime.

So basically, you want no drawback to AMS... During ams, you don't need to cast nano, it lasts 1.20, so what you want is: 80s of invulnerability + 40s of OMHH. As I already mentioned, it'll be faster to ask for CH to cast under AMS.

[Yama]

Well....ingame looking on RI nano. I understand Means said something...but until direct look on nano shows following info then blocking CH is BUG for me.

NaCost: 700NCU cost: 5
Nanoline: Complete Healing Line
Duration: 00:00:35
Range: 30m
Speed:
Attack 3.00s
Recharge 1.00s
Attack skills: Matter Crea 50% Matt.Metam 50%
Defence skills: Nano Resist 90%
Modifier:
Resist Nano: Heal Over Time
Resist Nano: Fixer Long HoT
Requirements:
Use:
Soldier
Level from 201
Matter Crea from 1251
Matt.Metam from 1251
Description:
When executed on the target, it stops that person from being able to be affected by some time delayed healing techniques and may reduce the time of heal over time effects.

This is anti-CH one as it should be(+add resist against improved versions):
One Foot in the Grave
NaCost: 688NCU cost: 6
Nanoline: Complete Healing Line
Duration: 00:00:50
Range: 30m
Speed:
Attack 8.00s
Recharge 4.00s
Attack skills: Matter Crea 50% Matt.Metam 50%
Defence skills: Nano Resist 120%
Modifier:
Resist Nano: Complete Healing Line
Requirements:
Use:
Soldier
Level from 175
Matter Crea from 830
Matt.Metam from 913
Description:
When executed on the target, it stops that person from being able to be affected by the Complete Healing and Invocation of the Phoenix nano programs.

[Daiken]

No, take your time to read what i wrote, i mean the following:

When AMS goes down a soldier gets a chooise to use the "Combat endurance" lets face it a soldier is a soldier because he/she is "bad ass".
Besides this fact.
When casted the soldier gets more health (healed) but the downside of this effect is a high DoT to remove this again, if said soldier is not healed he will suffer death because of hits of the apponent+removed health due to DoT, or saved because he got healed by the medic, or victory and posibility to heal self (Health labs etc).

You can see it as sort of a last "Push to victory or die" kind of thing.
We can taunt under AMS and downtime, why not this option - to do or not to do.

* im not asking for a CH of 500K HP, it needs more detail and figuring out but its still a nice idea

(Watch to much movies like i do, where the hero is semi dead, kill the bad guy and still dies due to injuries ^^)

[Daiken]

Lets reply constructively

But to your reply, no it has as much as a drawback as it is a positive thing, just requires more of a chance/gamble.
We deserve some survival during downtime, for example advies can run when layers run out, ripped etc, fixers have a high evade panic button or 2, soldiers do not heal, layer, able to run without root etc.
Looking at the bigger picture:
1 v.s 1 if used its certain death because you DoT as much as you have healed without someone healing you to save you.

in mass pvp its a good panic button IF you get healed or helped, adding to this in mass pvp right ow when AMS runs down without heals you certainly die. because there is no defence after that.
and no we can not meep either :P

Besides by DoT i mean a good DoT, not like you gain for example: 1000 HP your DoT is 1, no your DoT is 100-200

[Moonbolt]

u do know that u can refresh OMHH before the DoT ticks its full duration right and thereof gain positive healing out of it.

[Questra]

So basically, you want no drawback to AMS... During ams, you don't need to cast nano, it lasts 1.20, so what you want is: 80s of invulnerability + 40s of OMHH. As I already mentioned, it'll be faster to ask for CH to cast under AMS.

Where can I go to find this 80s of invulnerability? Two DD profs can kill a soldier through AMS5 in about 70-80 seconds, so AMS is good for mass PvP but it's no DoF/coon/BoL/BR/instaheal/awakening. Far, far from it.

And of course you have a 20% change that in a group setting one of the three profs who negate AMS will be around and will be looking exclusively for you.

So "invulnerable" is a bit of a strong claim, there.

If you think 10s of 0% reflect and 30s of 41% reflect is too much defense for OMHH then consider that most profs don't have a frequent "downtime" for their defense like soldiers do. Most profs have multiple defenses and alternative defenses, which soldier's don't have.

My 60 soldier can't OD Mortiig Beater damage from green enfos with OMHH. What makes you think that it's going to make much difference at tl7?

We also need some alternative for when we have to cancel AMS 10s seconds in, and OMHH is a start.

[Moonbolt]

hmm correct me if im wrong..was a very long time since i played my soldier and im to lazy to look it up atm.
isnt OMHH like 300 heal + 300 DoT 3 ticks of 100 each . 1 sec cast 2 sec recharge or something like that?
being able to spam that would equal to a +300 points healdelta while standing up shooting.

[Pafpuf]

Seeing as other profs can put up defenses, heal, evade and cap BS points all in the same time i do think there's something to be done about a nano that gives us protection but cant be ripped by X persons and you can't do anything else (heal up, cap) during it and some seconds after it finishes.

Name a defense that lasts 80 seconds and makes you invulnerable to damage from 11/14 professions ? Comparing AMS to any other defense ingame is ridiculous, regardless of it's drawbacks.

[Daiken]

how are you suppose to OMHH during downtime? atm you either have your AMS up or down, if its down you take ot much dmg, so when your spamming you cant fight at all.
dont see the sense in it, besides i gave an example, please thing beyond what your nose can see.

where talking 10K HP and a 2000 DoT, no OMHH cant overheal that.


Also read my posts again, the button is a death or win, not an in between situation.

[Moonbolt]

how are you suppose to OMHH during downtime? atm you either have your AMS up or down, if its down you take ot much dmg, so when your spamming you cant fight at all.
dont see the sense in it, besides i gave an example, please thing beyond what your nose can see.

where talking 10K HP and a 2000 DoT, no OMHH cant overheal that.


Also read my posts again, the button is a death or win, not an in between situation.

i think u have missed the point of the thread itself since it was a thread about removing the nano shutdown from AMS.
wich would make soldiers able to use OMHH during and after AMS.
or as some suggestions in the thread has been to remove the NSD between AMS.

[Questra]

Name a defense that lasts 80 seconds and makes you invulnerable to damage from 11/14 professions ? Comparing AMS to any other defense ingame is ridiculous, regardless of it's drawbacks.

I can do better.

A) Kiting, DoF, Limber, Deceptive Stance, low HP setup, 2 HoTs and 2s HD with HD implants, and roots when needed.

Works for at least 80s vs 11/14 profs, assuming that of the 3 spare profs, 1/14 is an NT, and 2/14 are Atrox with very fast reflexes and a very high base AR.

B) 45s DoF/BoL, 25s BoL/slobber wounds/Limber/Biococoon, 45s DoF/BoL, 25s BoL/BR/Awakening/Limber/slobber wounds, 45s DoF/BoL.

Works for far too long against 11/14 profs, the remaining profs being an NT that can actually survive long enough to kill the advie, a very skilled agent, and a good enfo.

C) 60k HP, Layers, Biococoon, BR, mongo HoT, enfo and group perkheals, which total about 8k not counting BR, about 7.5k absorbs from items, and 3k def in a defensive setup which still allows for 3.6 to 3.7k AR during proc.

This lasts about 80s vs just about every prof ingame, but for the sake of argument let's say it only lasts 60s vs a good soldier, 40s without IMUB, and let's say that vs an MA it will only last 60s. I've seen good trox enfos with MR fall to MAs when they aren't able to land Slowdown before, but again, this is pushing it a bit for the sake of giving you the benefit of the doubt. So that's 12/14 profs. 11/14 if you count NT PvP damage, but I think you would agree that no NT would survive that long vs an endgame enfo.

[Moonbolt]

C) 60k HP, Layers, Biococoon, BR, mongo HoT, enfo and group perkheals, which total about 8k not counting BR, about 7.5k absorbs from items, and 3k def in a defensive setup which still allows for 3.6 to 3.7k AR during proc.

This lasts about 80s vs just about every prof ingame, but for the sake of argument let's say it only lasts 60s vs a good soldier, 40s without IMUB, and let's say that vs an MA it will only last 60s. I've seen good trox enfos with MR fall to MAs when they aren't able to land Slowdown before, but again, this is pushing it a bit for the sake of giving you the benefit of the doubt. So that's 12/14 profs. 11/14 if you count NT PvP damage, but I think you would agree that no NT would survive that long vs an endgame enfo.

ur completly wrong here questra.
the absorbs from items are 5000+1000
layers are 1500 wich is spammable.
the 2900 HP buff adds a -2000 runspeed . wich soldier wouldnt own an enf with -2k RS.
Mongo HoT is +5k health.
and if ur in a pure defencive setup ur gonna have 3500ish AR with both procs. atleast if ur omni atm and dont have access to towers.

only yesterday i was capped thru my full defencive setup by Jommyboiii or how he spells his name 100% of the times with FA.
even with highway running. so only special duel setup enforcer with has the possiblity to actually stun a soldier and survive long enough to kill it.
me as a more pure tank setup doesnt have that posibility.
ohh and as we are talking of mass pvp.

a soldier with AMS up can tank 5 enforcers for 1:20
while an enf with imub and 70k health can tank 5 soldiers for aprox 11 seconds.

[Escritores]

Well....ingame looking on RI nano. I understand Means said something...but until direct look on nano shows following info then blocking CH is BUG for me.

Only thing here being it doesn't really matter what it is for you like I said it's only a description problem nothing else...

And Means didn't say just "something" he made it pretty clear...
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&postcount=161

Anyway this is only really secondary to this thread...
Soldiers are pretty much the only proff that got 3 professions who can completely ignore our only means of defense, GTH can be dealt with problem with this beeing way to low requirements to use, RI is a joke compared as there's several ways to get around it and that CH isn't the only means of defense for a agent.... So obviously something needs to be done to AMS to make it more useable, be it nerf BR or triples/doubles or giving us some form of defense against those... Engies are pretty much fine where they are not really OP'd if you compare them to the other means that BR and Triples/Doubles gives to defeating a soldier...

[randomalpha]

well i couldn't read all the thread was busy laughing on ppl saying soldier can tank 5 so here itis :
1 NT/trader/engi/agent can just need to pass and press 1 button and soldier insta dead<SOLO>
2 No matter how great is the soldier will die from 2 at most in ams downtime .. .
3 soldier can tank mmmm ,10 during ams , assuming those don't have stuns or any debuffs sold can't kill any of em .
4 just to remind u guys sold now at the botom of the list if u talking about PVP same for PVM
5 soldier have gr8 AR really nice i could hit 3850 my self but well HF killing any evader , this AR make sure u land ur crap on enf/agent , perk afk adv mb
6 those whiners just bring 4 profs out of the 13 that soldier have 70% chance to kill

= one conclusion those ppl was talking about soldier pre LE wasn't playing back then but heard soldier was doing well ..



i think if we need something we need better offense , and before any fixes:
WTS 800 ACS UBER PROC FOR END GAME SOLDIER ALONG WITH OUR GR8 HABB SAME FOR OUR IMBA WENWEN

srry if it was abit long or kinda out of topic just couldn't hold it