Crats, Fears, and Knockbacks...

[Sterva]

Means, what happened man? A few patches ago you skipped over our complaints saying that within the next few patches, everyone would be whining about bureaucrat improvements. Now we're getting a stun proc nerf, and everyone is pre-occupied with anything but bureaucrats. What gives?

I'll preface this with "I haven't been able to actually test the new crat fear since BS never really happens on testlive."

That said, it feels like bureaucrats are getting royally screwed with the addition of fears and knockbacks. First of all, the only thing that our fear will currently be good for is escaping. Which is great and all, except that other professions will be able to use knockbacks offensively.

Why are knockbacks getting good snares and why are crats getting a fairly useless fear instead of (what appears will be) a very useful knockback nano?

It just doesn't make sense to me. Our stun procs are getting nerfed, something that I fully support, but in exchange we are getting well, crap, compared to what many of the other professions are getting.

All that bureaucrats have basically been asking for for years regarding pvp improvement boils down to improved CC. I am pretty confident that enforcers have never even asked for improved CC abilities--and, while I'm not against their toolset expanding necessarily, why are we getting skipped over when this has been our top priority for years?

[crattey]

Not to mention that fearing people into randomly running about should make an interesting show with our pets, who already run in random patterns...

I wonder wether it evens out..

[Shareida]

Hey, be happy. Working Crowd control tools:

AOID 279360: Stunned by Put up or Shut Up

You are is rendered totally immobile for a period of time, unable to move or attack.

-[Attributes]-


TimeExist: 	5  
TracerEffectType: 	49999  
Attack skills: 	 BiologicalMetamorphosis 50%  PsychologicalModification 50%  
Defense skill: 	 NanoResist 50%  

-[Events]-

OnUse 
Name = RestrictAction  Target = Target  TickCount = 1  TickInterval = 0  :  Fighting, Moving

AOID 279363: Aftereffect of Put up or Shut Up

Your feet move slowly.

-[Attributes]-


TimeExist: 	19  

-[Events]-

OnUse 
Name = ScalingModify  Target = Target  TickCount = 1  TickInterval = 0  :  RunSpeed  -2000

Aint that nice? 5 sec stun + 19 sec snare. And the CC classs who gets it iiiisssss: Enforcer.

[RedWobe]

If nobody can even get away from Enforcers anymore, I'm done with TL7 BS. They're already so good it makes me want to vomit thinking of them snaring me. What the hell, funcom. I'll have to choose between playing Wobegon and quitting. The second is looking more and more like an option.

[Chrys]

If nobody can even get away from Enforcers anymore, I'm done with TL7 BS. They're already so good it makes me want to vomit thinking of them snaring me. What the hell, funcom. I'll have to choose between playing Wobegon and quitting. The second is looking more and more like an option.

I agree, but it's not so much the principle of giving what to what.

It's giving any alpha prof (especially ones where the majority of players are trox with mongo rage) a no-resist snare that equals death in the hands of a competent player (i.e. the ones that know how to press all their buttons in the right order) that simply makes no sense. Stun+Mongo Rage has always been a problem. Now it just got 10 times worse.

There's far too much variety of runspeeds out there for any snare not to be OP against some players while useless against others - if it were 1k snare, fixers and advies wouldn't even notice, but it would still be near insta death for MPs (and I assume other profs as well, but I don't play them).

Anyway, my opinion of the fears/snares is that these are going to be a classic case of it wasn't broke but they tried to fix it.

[Tiamin]

I agree, but it's not so much the principle of giving what to what.

It's giving any alpha prof (especially ones where the majority of players are trox with mongo rage) a no-resist snare that equals death in the hands of a competent player (i.e. the ones that know how to press all their buttons in the right order) that simply makes no sense. Stun+Mongo Rage has always been a problem. Now it just got 10 times worse.

There's far too much variety of runspeeds out there for any snare not to be OP against some players while useless against others - if it were 1k snare, fixers and advies wouldn't even notice, but it would still be near insta death for MPs (and I assume other profs as well, but I don't play them).

Anyway, my opinion of the fears/snares is that these are going to be a classic case of it wasn't broke but they tried to fix it.

A 1k unbreakable snare is noticable when you're trying to get away from a train that's coming up from behind.

[Crashalts]

Id say FC unbalancing the game. Cause the strongest profs getting more powah. Like NTs Enfos.

Anyway Im still hoping Means brings in something for crats as well in next batch. He told as that ppl will whine about crat improvements in next patch, but fears and knockbacks are almost for everyone and atm Fears have no reason to whine at all.
Means man what else you have there? :P

[Gunfytr]

IMO this is a valid complaint...Ill bump this.

[Eliath]

..snip..
..why are we getting skipped over when this has been our top priority for years?

Bamp..

[K1nkstaah]

I guess crats were fine then.

The snare is nothing special. It doesnt allow me to do anything more than a root graft currently does. It'll have no effect on who I can and can't kill - It really wont have as big of an impact as anyone thinks.

But then again that may just be me. Most of the time good enforcers wont even need the root graft to begin with.

If anything it will allow an enf to snare someone to allow his friends to kill them.

[ragerayden]

Beware clueless post above, beware!

Ya crats are fine with.... they can..... RUN.... damn we need a RS buff if we keep on running like that. Really I spend more time running away from ppl than pvping....

1HE/1HB enfos are going to love it btw... their new stun....

[Sterva]

I guess crats were fine then.

The snare is nothing special. It doesnt allow me to do anything more than a root graft currently does. It'll have no effect on who I can and can't kill - It really wont have as big of an impact as anyone thinks.

But then again that may just be me. Most of the time good enforcers wont even need the root graft to begin with.

If anything it will allow an enf to snare someone to allow his friends to kill them.

Did you even read my OP? Seriously, not a rhetorical question, because it looks like you saw the title and wrote random stuff without even reading what I said.

[Harios]

It's giving any alpha prof (especially ones where the majority of players are trox with mongo rage) a no-resist snare that equals death in the hands of a competent player (i.e. the ones that know how to press all their buttons in the right order) that simply makes no sense. Stun+Mongo Rage has always been a problem. Now it just got 10 times worse.

You know that stuns can be removed easily with 1 click right?
Try playing a melee profession that is running after people the whole time.

[Koizumi]

You know that stuns can be removed easily with 1 click right?
Try playing a melee profession that is running after people the whole time.

Right, with a profession that has TONS of RS? (rage smbdy?)

[Chrys]

You know that stuns can be removed easily with 1 click right?
Try playing a melee profession that is running after people the whole time.

Not when items are locked out because of perk queues and assorted bugs. Given that most support profs have slow acting perks, we can't unclick stuns very easily at all, never mind that we have a 10-second window to eat the whole alpha and plenty of profs don't have any emergency defense against that, not to mention once you start your perk queue, kiting won't stop them from landing.

[Harios]

Right, with a profession that has TONS of RS? (rage smbdy?)

Imagine a melee profession without lots of run speed.. and start laughing.

Not when items are locked out because of perk queues and assorted bugs. Given that most support profs have slow acting perks, we can't unclick stuns very easily at all, never mind that we have a 10-second window to eat the whole alpha and plenty of profs don't have any emergency defense against that, not to mention once you start your perk queue, kiting won't stop them from landing.

Then we should get those bugs fixed asap.
When you see an enf incoming to alpha you and you start a perk queue, ain't smart.
If you see an enf incoming, pop your NM cocoon.
You need to respond fast and smart, that's the challenge of pvp.
Kiting doesn't prevent perks from landing, but it does make it harder to land all perks.

[IHaveHugeNick]

The problem i have with Enfs is that they just dont fcking die anymore, can barely be debuffed anymore, and you can barely hit them either.

Adding a snare seems like something from completely other planet. Adding something that will be no more no less the best snare ingame, is ... well, can i hear WTF?

[Chrys]

Then we should get those bugs fixed asap.
When you see an enf incoming to alpha you and you start a perk queue, ain't smart.
If you see an enf incoming, pop your NM cocoon.
You need to respond fast and smart, that's the challenge of pvp.
Kiting doesn't prevent perks from landing, but it does make it harder to land all perks.

Yes, but there's no defense against mongo rage. It's not the stun per se, but the fact that the only defense against MR is to kite it out (or hope that the noob didn't have all their perks ready, something you've no control over). Now with a 2k snare, stun or no stun you can MR with no support prof other than docs being able to defend against your whole alpha. Not everyone has coon (which doesn't cycle as fast as your MR/perks anyway), solitus/trox/opi MPs, crats, nts, traders, etc. are all screwed.

[Harios]

The problem i have with Enfs is that they just dont fcking die anymore, can barely be debuffed anymore, and you can barely hit them either.

Adding a snare seems like something from completely other planet. Adding something that will be no more no less the best snare ingame, is ... well, can i hear WTF?

Maybe you should practise some pvp if you are unable to kill enforcers as engineer.
Fun stuff to hear from one of the best duel professions out there.

[Harios]

Yes, but there's no defense against mongo rage. It's not the stun per se, but the fact that the only defense against MR is to kite it out (or hope that the noob didn't have all their perks ready, something you've no control over). Now with a 2k snare, stun or no stun you can MR with no support prof other than docs being able to defend against your whole alpha. Not everyone has coon (which doesn't cycle as fast as your MR/perks anyway), solitus/trox/opi MPs, crats, nts, traders, etc. are all screwed.

Crats, fixers and MA's can evade MR if played well enough.
MR costs 10 alien perks and it can be countered by most professions.
And what if we use MR and kill you.... is that so bad?
Let's nerf everything that actually might harm you?

Not to mention that I don't even use MR and it's not profession specific.
People want to prevent enforcers from getting a new nano and suddenly the MR card is in your face.