New Bureaucrat Perks Feedback

[Sterva]

Autocracy:

The attack skills are 55% PM 45% MC. MC is *NOT* a main nano skill for bureaucrats, and with a 100% NR defensive check, these will be pretty difficult to land in pvp for many bureaucrats. We are tight on IP and can only afford to raise MC to the minimum for casting pets and buffs.

A PM/SI split would be best, since it matches our other attacking nano skills.

Demand Justice:

Why are we getting another damage perk? We've begged for a perk in this line for ages, but I'm pretty sure that we all imagined it being a defensive perk. We already have plenty of damage perks, we need more defenses! I would much rather see this become a defensive perk that could be rotated with dodge the blame or over rule the way acrobat works for other profs.

Pistol Mastery:

PM checks NEED to be nerfed for advs. But, if they are nerfed for support profs, we won't have enough AR to land them on most players, including many non-evade profs, making pistols a much less attractive option, and possibly sending support users back to using AS weapons. Also, Advs are getting 100 more AR? wtf!

Solution? Copy paste the PM line and make the duplicate have a 100% defensive check for advs, leave it as it is at 80% for every other profession. It's well balanced right now for everyone but advs, this nerf will really hurt the over all effectiveness of pistols for support users if it goes live.

Pistols are finally, after almost a decade of AO, a good pvp weapon for support professions. Please don't mess it up now just in an effort to nerf Advs.

(more to come!)

[erozc]

Also, Advs are getting 100 more AR? wtf!

Source please? And could I please query what kind of AR are top pistol crats talking about currently so I can participate in this discussion.

[Mereditche]

Pistol Mastery:

PM checks NEED to be nerfed for advs. But, if they are nerfed for support profs, we won't have enough AR to land them on most players, including many non-evade profs, making pistols a much less attractive option, and possibly sending support users back to using AS weapons. Also, Advs are getting 100 more AR? wtf!

Solution? Copy paste the PM line and make the duplicate have a 100% defensive check for advs, leave it as it is at 80% for every other profession. It's well balanced right now for everyone but advs, this nerf will really hurt the over all effectiveness of pistols for support users if it goes live.

Pistols are finally, after almost a decade of AO, a good pvp weapon for support professions. Please don't mess it up now just in an effort to nerf Advs.

(more to come!)

Bump, it makes me cry to see them even consider changing it for everyone to nerf advys. They weren't OP for support, they were just good enough to finally give up AS with all the added benefits of being able to have an almost normal setup.

This just makes me fear FC just randomly throws things together until everyone stops whining or has left.

[Racatti]

What makes you think, you will be able to use AS at all?

[Sterva]

Source please? And could I please query what kind of AR are top pistol crats talking about currently so I can participate in this discussion.

check out the .pdfs posted in the friday without means.

[Racatti]

Source please? And could I please query what kind of AR are top pistol crats talking about currently so I can participate in this discussion.

Crats have around 50-80 more AR compared to ranged advs in a similar setup.

Roughly equal with the crat using VE.

[Hacre]

Source please? And could I please query what kind of AR are top pistol crats talking about currently so I can participate in this discussion.

Sterva can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe towerless 3-3.1k AR is attainable with Pistol implanted in the eye or using the EOE. I can't remember if that includes the offense hud or not though.

It's not just about landing the perks that made it an issue for Ranged Advies to have the 80% checking perks it was the combination of the new perks with the defenses available to them.

I noticed Deadeye has a proposed nerf as well (no double hit).

As for the source of Sterva's claims, see the latest F(w/o)M.

[sultryvoltron]

Autocracy:

The attack skills are 55% PM 45% MC. MC is *NOT* a main nano skill for bureaucrats, and with a 100% NR defensive check, these will be pretty difficult to land in pvp for many bureaucrats. We are tight on IP and can only afford to raise MC to the minimum for casting pets and buffs.

A PM/SI split would be best, since it matches our other attacking nano skills.

Don't raise AS.

Demand Justice:

Why are we getting another damage perk? We've begged for a perk in this line for ages, but I'm pretty sure that we all imagined it being a defensive perk. We already have plenty of damage perks, we need more defenses! I would much rather see this become a defensive perk that could be rotated with dodge the blame or over rule the way acrobat works for other profs.

Defense perk is a better idea.

Pistol Mastery:

PM checks NEED to be nerfed for advs. But, if they are nerfed for support profs, we won't have enough AR to land them on most players, including many non-evade profs, making pistols a much less attractive option, and possibly sending support users back to using AS weapons. Also, Advs are getting 100 more AR? wtf!

Solution? Copy paste the PM line and make the duplicate have a 100% defensive check for advs, leave it as it is at 80% for every other profession. It's well balanced right now for everyone but advs, this nerf will really hurt the over all effectiveness of pistols for support users if it goes live.

Pistols are finally, after almost a decade of AO, a good pvp weapon for support professions. Please don't mess it up now just in an effort to nerf Advs.

(more to come!)

You're right about more to come. Let it come before the sky starts falling over 100% check perks.

• Many changes are focused around the idea that total investment in a perk line will aid in specializing a character in one direction or another - A focus on pets vs. weaponry, or offense vs. defense.

I think it's really important to let you guys know that nothing here is finalized or written in stone.

And that's just perk related.

[Sterva]

Crats have around 50-80 more AR compared to ranged advs in a similar setup.

Roughly equal with the crat using VE.

False.

Crats can get that kind of AR at the extreme sacrifice of defenses and nano skills. In a balanced setup, our AR is generally lower, and we also have much lower specials skill AR.

[Hacre]

Don't raise AS.

Unless something weird happened, all the weapon skills on a Crat are blue (pistol) to dark blue (EVERY OTHER WEAPON SKILL TO DO WITH PISTOLS, so fling, burst, multi ranged, etc).

A Crat does not have the IP to spend on the skills needed for ranged weaponry, with or without AS, as well as all base stats, body dev, nanopool (not all Crats max theirs, but not being in a nano build makes raising nanopool advisable due to recasts on nano hungry nanos like Malaise and IPA), Run Speed and all evades (all dark blue), NR, Psychology (if they want to use the new/changed perks), first aid (stims, alb stims), treatment and all nanoskills apart from MM and BM I think as well.

I assure you, IP on a Crat is tight, if they want to do anything beyond cast and max psychology, ie, use a weapon.

Crats will save -some- MR IP but not a huge amount, by being able to perk Counterweight. So no, "not raising AS" isn't exactly a solution to the IP starved Crat because to max AS, serious sacrifices have had to be made, sacrifices that won't go away by maxing MC instead.

If memory serves me correctly, my Crat had well over 500 points less MC than my NT and my NT needs to debuff most people to ensure perks land, a luxury Crats don't have. Don't even bother to retort that with DMW either.

[erozc]

check out the .pdfs posted in the friday without means.

I read all of those and didn't see "Pistol: 100" or "Add all off: 100" in any of the advy profession perk lines. So please help the blind to see.

I also didn't see where it said what crat AR is.

{edited by Anarrina: removes generic obligatory statement references as trolling}

[sultryvoltron]

I read all of those and didn't see "Pistol: 100" or "Add all off: 100" in any of the advy profession perk lines. So please help the blind to see.

I also didn't see where it said what crat AR is.

{removed}

I don't see it either.

Unless something weird happened, all the weapon skills on a Crat are blue (pistol) to dark blue (EVERY OTHER WEAPON SKILL TO DO WITH PISTOLS, so fling, burst, multi ranged, etc).

A Crat does not have the IP to spend on the skills needed for ranged weaponry, with or without AS, as well as all base stats, body dev, nanopool (not all Crats max theirs, but not being in a nano build makes raising nanopool advisable due to recasts on nano hungry nanos like Malaise and IPA), Run Speed and all evades (all dark blue), NR, Psychology (if they want to use the new/changed perks), first aid (stims, alb stims), treatment and all nanoskills apart from MM and BM I think as well.

I assure you, IP on a Crat is tight, if they want to do anything beyond cast and max psychology, ie, use a weapon.

Crats will save -some- MR IP but not a huge amount, by being able to perk Counterweight. So no, "not raising AS" isn't exactly a solution to the IP starved Crat because to max AS, serious sacrifices have had to be made, sacrifices that won't go away by maxing MC instead.

If memory serves me correctly, my Crat had well over 500 points less MC than my NT and my NT needs to debuff most people to ensure perks land, a luxury Crats don't have. Don't even bother to retort that with DMW either.

Your Crat was probably wearing full CSS while your NT was wearing at least half of a suit of CS. Making choices is good. As pretty much all Crats agreed, offense is fine, defense is lacking. For those Crats that don't want to use full CSS and the AS pistol they will have an easier time with having some offense. Also, who knows what the reqs will be on your new pets. If they are 500 points higher and they do a good job with them, then additional choices are required. Do I want the new pet? Or do I want the old pets + pistols?

[Sterva]

I read all of those and didn't see "Pistol: 100" or "Add all off: 100" in any of the advy profession perk lines. So please help the blind to see.

I also didn't see where it said what crat AR is.

{removed}

A well balanced endgame pistol crat setup will yield between 3k and 3.1k AR for most players.

Advs are getting +100 AR in their morph changes.

{edited by Anarrina: inserts a pointed gesture towards her delete and infract buttons if you don't cut it out}

[Hacre]

Your Crat was probably wearing full CSS while your NT was wearing at least half of a suit of CS. Making choices is good. As pretty much all Crats agreed, offense is fine, defense is lacking. For those Crats that don't want to use full CSS and the AS pistol they will have an easier time with having some offense. Also, who knows what the reqs will be on your new pets. If they are 500 points higher and they do a good job with them, then additional choices are required. Do I want the new pet? Or do I want the old pets + pistols?

Offense was fine. Now the PM perks are (proposed) getting nerfed again. So as is usual with Crats it seems, 1 step forwards, two steps back (two steps back = nerfing the defense check and removing stun procs, the one step forward being the original redesign of the PM perks).

Three pieces of CS doesn't make up for ~500 points of nanoskill. My point, which you missed, was NT attack perks base off MC, which is all well and good for my NT, it's a strong(ish) well buffed attack skill, accompanied by a debuff nano so my things will land. Crats don't have excellent buffing to MC, it isn't green and they don't have a debuff to help it. So involving that skill with attack checks is pretty stupid on both nanos and on perks, especially perks.

[sultryvoltron]

Offense was fine. Now the PM perks are (proposed) getting nerfed again. So as is usual with Crats it seems, 1 step forwards, two steps back (two steps back = nerfing the defense check and removing stun procs, the one step forward being the original redesign of the PM perks).

Three pieces of CS doesn't make up for ~500 points of nanoskill. My point, which you missed, was NT attack perks base off MC, which is all well and good for my NT, it's a strong(ish) well buffed attack skill, accompanied by a debuff nano so my things will land. Crats don't have excellent buffing to MC, it isn't green and they don't have a debuff to help it. So involving that skill with attack checks is pretty stupid on both nanos and on perks, especially perks.

I'm pretty confident that PM perks will be back to 80% for support profs.

Also, Sterva's original complaint included that they are not able to max MC because of tight IP. If maxing MC would make this perk land, the def check is fine. If maxing MC makes this perk miss, it needs a lower def check or different attack skills. Anyone feel up for doing the math?

[erozc]

A well balanced endgame pistol crat setup will yield between 3k and 3.1k AR for most players.

Advs are getting +100 AR in their morph changes.

I guess this 100 AR would be useful in helping me reach 3.1k AR in a well balanced setup and I'm saying this quite seriously. Then again, maybe that's just my poorness. However, the point I'm trying to make is that AR differences between crats and advys are hardly in the hundreds. Also, on the damage front what was seen as trolling was an attempt to say that an advy's offensive power comes only from guns and perks, while crats have a bigger number of offensive options, even if their effectivity is questionable. Still, as advys have much better defenses in most situations I'm not going to cry about that so let's forget that discussion.

Finally, could you please provide me with a link on these morph changes since so far all I've read is the following:

• Adventurers in particular will see large adjustments to their morph nano lines, attempting to seperate the lines and give them unique functionality which makes them more appealing within certain situations. This will also be reflected through their perk lines as our nano-change documentation becomes more finalized.

So what's next? Well, today you're getting your hands on the altered Profession-specific perk documents *and* your first look at the Group Perk documents. The AI Breed Perk documentation will be coming along Soon™ and there's plenty more information to come after that - We've still got Research, Nanos, Weaponry, Items... no rest for the weary or the wicked.

[Racatti]

Can max MC no prob, but it still won't be very high.

[Mountaingoat]

How about autocracy yields a perk that debuffs flat root/snare immunities 80% for 30s every 70s?

[Hacre]

I'm pretty confident that PM perks will be back to 80% for support profs.

Also, Sterva's original complaint included that they are not able to max MC because of tight IP. If maxing MC would make this perk land, the def check is fine. If maxing MC makes this perk miss, it needs a lower def check or different attack skills. Anyone feel up for doing the math?

If my memory serves me correctly, fully maxed out Crats don't get much more MC than Soldiers get nanoresist. It creeps over, obviously, if you go for an all out nanoskill setup. I'm not convinced, unless more changes come, though, that an all out nanoskill/evade setup is the right way for Crats to go, although FC appear to be leaning towards this (psychology and nanoskills and evades are all buffed by CS).

FC need to up their game some, though, if they want Crats away from relying on weapons and relying more on nanos and nano skill/psych checking perks.

[Gracee]

How about autocracy yields a perk that debuffs flat root/snare immunities 80% for 30s every 70s?

This is the type of change we need to see. This helps us defensively although it would actually just help us use what we already have more efficiently.



Discussing a potential re-balance of Crats while comparing to what an Advy can do is silly. I play both and the two profs are on opposite ends of the spectrum in several ways.