How should damage-ranking be and why?

[Cyberleet]

Sorry of this is posted in the wrong forum, but I thought since this is the rebalance forum I ask here.

I go by the design of the class and new documentation; here's mine:

----------------------------------


1. Agent and NT

Mimic might get new penalties tailored to the profession, and thus, a damage-penalty might be added to mimic doc. Agent is also the only profession without any defence perks/actions other than what those FP adds and detaunting is one of the most re-curring part of our toolset.

Therefore it makes sense.

NT since it basicly just have that shield.

2. Shade

Shade has evade-perks and absorb and he heal-leechs will be improved.

3. Soldier/MA

They are both ment as tank-professions and dd-classes so, even if defence can be quite nice per the new documentation.


------------------------------------

I am not sure where to put the rest, but thats my view. Any got other opinions?

[Flyingengi]

1. Agent and NT

Mimic might get new penalties tailored to the profession, and thus, a damage-penalty might be added to mimic doc. Agent is also the only profession without any defence perks/actions other than what those FP adds and detaunting is one of the most re-curring part of our toolset.

Therefore it makes sense.

NT since it basicly just have that shield.

First, "without any defence perks/actions other than what those FP adds" is so wrong. FP adds alot of defense. You get to choose your defense from all other professions. You can get healing from doc, reflects from soldier, or even absorbs/hp from enfo and absorbs/blinds from NT's.

Secondly, "just have that shield." That shield is the most powerful defensive/offensive tool ingame.

[tlaski]

First, "without any defence perks/actions other than what those FP adds" is so wrong. FP adds alot of defense. You get to choose your defense from all other professions.ingame.

Sorry if i am mistaken but doesnt FP mean false/fake profession? He is saying that an agents only defense is through false profession, i.e. casting a new profession and useing whatever defensive capabilties said profession has. I do not know if that is true, i have never played an agent but it looked like you missed his point. or maybe i missed it.

someone activate my account for me. kthanksbye

[Saetos]

Sorry if i am mistaken but doesnt FP mean false/fake profession? He is saying that an agents only defense is through false profession, i.e. casting a new profession and useing whatever defensive capabilties said profession has.

Which is exactly what he said.

By the way, ... agents should be good DD, but top? No way...

[Martialmad]

3. Soldier/MA
They are both ment as tank-professions and dd-classes so, even if defence can be quite nice per the new documentation.
?

Huh ?
MA is meant to be a tank ?
Most encounters made since LE simply ignore evades.
I highly doubt FC ever wanted to make MAs tank.

[Kinkstaah]

Why didnt you read the post before flaming?

Letah said agent should be #1, because there is a damage penalty (potentially) for mimic doc, or other support classes mimic wise.

Therefore, as an agent, WITHOUT MIMIC, there would be next to no defence, infact realistically there would be no defence at all. Depending on what mimic is chosen.

If a mimic is chosen with no defence (or no mimic at all) then there is no reason why Agent DD shouldn't be really up there.

[Ebondevil]

If an agent isn't using any mimic it should be hands down the best DD profession available purely because of the lack of well anything else going for the profession under those circumstances.

One way of bringing this about would be through changing the Concentration and Sureshot lines and removing the lockouts on them, while also locking those nanos to Visual profession Agent, meaning an Agent would get a significant damage boost and much better crit chance from constantly recasting those nanos.

[Flyingengi]

If an agent isn't using any mimic it should be hands down the best DD profession available purely because of the lack of well anything else going for the profession under those circumstances.

Nice try. So if an enforcer decides he doesn't want to use any of his defensive toolsets, he should be the best DD there is? If a doc decides it doesn't want to heal, it should be the best DD there is? Just because you decide that you don't want to use part of your toolset doesn't mean that you should all of a sudden be an amazing DD.

Agent should have a huge DP(Second), but have decent DP(Minute). What I mean is agent should have a huge alpha attack, which they do now, and then do mediocre damage while said attacks/perks are recharging, which they do now.

[Kinkstaah]

Nice try. So if an enforcer decides he doesn't want to use any of his defensive toolsets, he should be the best DD there is? If a doc decides it doesn't want to heal, it should be the best DD there is? Just because you decide that you don't want to use part of your toolset doesn't mean that you should all of a sudden be an amazing DD.

Well quite frankly, yeah. They should be able to do that. Docs wouldnt, because docs can just heal themselves, and voila, defence. A keeper going offensive can just use Bio, a soldier in offence mode isnt locked out of using AMS.

Agents cant, as casting a mimic/cancelling current mimic to go prof X and use defence Y takes too long to reasonably accomplish. Especially in the future where CASTING Mimic, will (or may) nerf the damage of the agent as soon as it is cast.

Should all classes have "hyper dd" mode if their defensive toolsets are rendered unable? .. well, why not? It would solve the "Sorry, we already have a (Class), we need DD" problem.

No, I am not suggesting a doc that cant heal should OD a shade, because then you would never need a shade ever. But the concept isnt inherently flawed when it comes to Agents.

[Dogtrauma]

The Sniper archetype is one that calls to a lot of people, therefore it would be kinda cool if there was a complete toolset for that and logic does put it on the Agent prof to be the sharpshooter king.

The ability to FP makes balancing the agent while still keeping the snipyness intact quite impossible IMO, having full-force AS *AND* 80% Doc-healing is silly-OP, no?

Switching nano-skills around a bit to force a choice 'tween top of the line FP or best rifle buffs would be one way, this ofc does not work at all in AO today, with the guud-gear all classes have all the nanoskills they want when they want them, minty fresh!

Far easier would be buffs and perks that will only run when not in FP.

Stealth and movement are at the core of a sniper's toolset, no? Along with the gun ofc.

Since nanos and perks are being looked at this is the time to make this a reality.

Fixers have perks that can not be used with Grid-armor, something along those lines would work for FP too i think.

And @ Mr. Flyingengi, this is not that much different from the proposed changes to engi's and MP's with weapon slot items giving access to moar pet powah (tm) but ofc denying the use of weapons.
Giving the agent the choice to forgo versatility and focus on his trusty rifle is not the same thing as refusing to use layers " 'cause ur lazy, lol!!!", which your post sorta boils down to if we're honest.

[Stinnipeng]

Nice try. So if an enforcer decides he doesn't want to use any of his defensive toolsets, he should be the best DD there is?

But enfs still have a defensive toolset...

Agents does not have a defensive toolset, and might be a tad better DD-wise than a fully def. perked enf, the only difference is, that the agent has so little AR, he can barely hit nondef-perked support classes, the HP of the agent is like balls compared to others, and we still dont have any defensive perks/nanos...


Therefore, an agent should be the #1(no question) DD in the game, seeing anyone else has more defensive options...

[Neon_1]

1. Shades

Imo the most obvious. Shades should be top DD, because thats what they are made for.

2. Agent(with no mimic) / Martial Artist

With the previous reasoning, I would put agents here on top, without mimic. MA:s should be up here also, and hopefully changes will bring that.

3. NT/Soldier/Keeper

This should be the next group. Its a matter of perspective what prof of these is ahead of another. I think depending on setup's this would differ a bit, also being dependable on situation.

4. Rest profs.

5. Doc.

[Cyberleet]

With new penalties to the FP's and revamp of the agent core-toolset, agent seem logicly as top DD.

That was the intention from SL-devs, so "rebalance".

RE-what?

Shades should be top DD, because thats what they are made for.

And for evading and leeching HP!

What FC calls master assassin basicly got cc-tools (and some other tricks) as advantage to avoid harm, (altho with AI we got a perk that debuffs inits on target, IE damage mitigration...somewhat).

I highly doubt FC ever wanted to make MAs tank.

You can read it in the manual and helpfiles. Who would have tought? ^_^

[erozc]

3. NT/Soldier/Keeper

This should be the next group. Its a matter of perspective what prof of these is ahead of another. I think depending on setup's this would differ a bit, also being dependable on situation.

You forgot engie. Perhaps even on the 2nd tier. What do they bring to a team? AC buffs? Making carb? There's no team buffs besides reflect weaker than a soldier's, there's no debuffs except the mostly useless blind aura and more useless reflect ripper. Hell, keepers have beneficial team auras and can heal, engies have a damage aura of +25 too but compare that to a keeper's damage aura of +150. Not to mention anti fear which arguably makes them very popular for one instance in particular. Even MAs bring healing (which it seems is about to be upped) and some tankability to the table.

[Stinnipeng]

1. Shades

Imo the most obvious. Shades should be top DD, because thats what they are made for.

How can you possibly say that a high-evade prof should have the best DD ingame?

using "Because thats what they are made for" is not an argument, neither a fact...

Its pure bul..... well now, agents should atleast keep themselves upto a shades point of damage.

[Mekh]

How can you possibly say that a high-evade prof should have the best DD ingame?

Because it's just about all they are wanted for in a team situation...

I've never heard of anyone that wanted to bring a shade to their team because of their drains or anything else for that matter.

[Ebondevil]

Because it's just about all they are wanted for in a team situation...

I've never heard of anyone that wanted to bring a shade to their team because of their drains or anything else for that matter.

I've never heard of anyone that wanted to bring an agent to their team...

I've heard plenty of times that people don't want an agent cause they're too squishy though...

Basically shades get the teams because they have DD and they can survive the aggro due to their evades and health drains, it might not be what people directly think of when they pick a shade, but they do know that the shade can generally survive if the shade does pull aggro off the tank.

Agents, from my perspective at least, pretty much only get teams because there's no one else available or the people in the team know the Agent is damn good. At least at later levels.

If the Pure Agent, i.e. using no mimic, gets a DD boost to be in competition for the top DD spot, and the Detaunts agents have get fixed to be usable, then the Agent will be able to perform significant DD without pulling aggro if they use their toolset.

Hue Spike damage for a few seconds just doesn't cut it in PvM when mob fights take minutes and raids are continuous affairs needing consistently high damage.

Spike damage has little place in PvM other than Farming lower level stuff and making sure you OD anyone else who comes to farm it, that's not particularly useful for dealing with content of the appropriate difficulty for the Agent in question. It is more pronounced at later levels than earlier though.

[Hacre]

Secondly, "just have that shield." That shield is the most powerful defensive/offensive tool ingame.

No it isn't. You also need to be specific, as there's nothing offensive about Nanobot Guard.

1. Shades

Imo the most obvious. Shades should be top DD, because thats what they are made for.<snip>

3. NT<snip>

This should be the next group. Its a matter of perspective what prof of these is ahead of another. I think depending on setup's this would differ a bit, also being dependable on situation.

I'd like you to explain how you think NTs aren't intended to be damage dealers, especially in PvM.

[Graftmage]

Shades should OD everyone by at least 30% because they contribute nothing to team. NT can calm, agent can heal/calm/whatever.

[ninst]

Shade can drain nanopool, AAO/AAD and debuff inits making tank's life easier. Shades can tank themselves. NT calms are almost useless in all latest highend pvm encounters. NTs should OD shades.