Just a thought about Grenades and Shotguns

**sininen** · Nov 4th, 2009, 19:32:27

AoE.

Think about it; it would make sense if Grenade-guns would come with a small AoE (nothing too crazy... like min damage of the equipped weapon with an attack skill, which checks duck-exp and would hit like couple mobs around the main target) and Shotguns with a very small AoE (like 1 mob right next to main target, 1m range and 1 other target hit only). I'm sure some Engineers, who still wield Grenade-guns, and Traders would welcome this effect in PvM at least, let alone mass-PvP.

I have no idea would this be possible to create, quite possibly not... so I'm just playing with the idea and perhaps someone has already created a similar topic... but anyway! What do you think, would this be silly or less-silly idea? No need for serious debate, this was just something that crossed my mind and I wanted to write it down somewhere

**srompu** · Nov 5th, 2009, 07:27:10

Grenade Aoe? {edited by Anarrina: removed obscenity}

Just put a 100% proc which does an 5m 2k AoE called FRAGMENTATION BURST, and a 15m 1k AoE called SHRAPNEL SPRAY, both of which check ~50 duck. Put the rocks flying visual on top of the ToTW flame ring visual. Also, make it do a DoT. Make it hurt friendlies too, and make the proc debuff ranged init so you get the "oh {removed} he's reloading run" effect.

Actually, I think giving Engis inv-usable flashbangs, frag grenades and thermite grenades would be absolutely awesome. Make 'em varied enough to be useful, but not potent enough to be OP, and by no means spammable.

Put a 4s snare and 1s stun on the flashbang, a DoT on the thermite grenade, and a bigass nuke and knockback on the frag grenade. Give them the "use" feature that requires you to stand still briefly or break combat, and make the engi require a grenade weapon to use them. And make 'em tradeskillable.

Less kiting the pets, damage ++, grenade loving, tradeskill loving, and anti-blob lulz.

Screw shotguns though.

**Dancingrage** · Nov 5th, 2009, 07:52:19

I don't even have an engie and I'm all for evil grenades of doom. Flashbangs (quick blind) Frag (big boomer o' doom) and HE (Knockback if it ever can be made to work) would all be nice additions to the Engineer toolset.

Ah, thought about it a bit more

So it'd be Thermite for a nasty DoT fire effect, maybe have a LN2 (liquid Nitrogen) grenade for a cold attack, have a generic Anti-Personnel mine handy for a simple AOE attack and Shaped Charges to do capped pvp hits against any mech the Engineer is lucky enough to come across in pvp.

Srompu's got a good start, and I hope that the usable inventory grenades get a good looking over, the idea is wicked cool and the execution currently...well...sucks.

Shotguns could have special shell types, not unlike how we have buckshot and solid slugs in rk4, maybe a nanite enhanced 'boomer' shell for a small AOE, usable much like the fixer special ammunition for the area burst. Using it would probably mess with your sights a bit and make using Aimed Shots a bit tougher (temp debuff to AS for a few seconds) until they recorrected or you got over the recoil.

**Saetos** · Nov 5th, 2009, 07:57:08

Sounds like a terrific anti-zerg idea; prepare a thermite grenade, launch it and produce a wide-radius fire DOT, enough to worry about but ofc not orbital-strike brand of power.

**Technogen** · Nov 5th, 2009, 08:01:35

Means personally doesn't like the idea of use grenades (idk why, I didn't feel like debating him on that one at the time)

**srompu** · Nov 5th, 2009, 08:18:53

Ok, well even if not inventory-usable grenades, a U GOT PHRAGGED aoe on grenade weapons would surely not be too bad.

I freaking love the idea, if only for the cool factor.
Down with dual-lust cookie-cutter support profs and up with grenade launchers!

**sininen** · Nov 5th, 2009, 11:59:15

It's kinda shame that a whole line of weapons is left behind and forgotten. It would be nice to see more variation. And yeah, I don't have an engineer nor a trader

**Ellarisa** · Nov 5th, 2009, 12:58:35

has been asked before by those grenade wierdos..
the usable grenade things have been asked for also and we ended up with BS only snare/nano mines (fun stuff if people step on it, but hard to get em to step on it

)

currently the only reason to use grenade is the "cool factor" as srompu puts it (i think it looks lame, but meh )

Greetings,

Ellarisa

**Chrazy** · Nov 5th, 2009, 16:11:06

There is a perk in game already (can't remember the name) that looks like the person throwing a grenade, evolve it!

**Dancingrage** · Nov 5th, 2009, 19:56:37

I find it funny that the folks most likey to say "yes, more usable item grenades for Engies, Plx" are the same ones who'll most likely be killed by these grenades.

Another idea I'd had is to have an armor piercing (-reflect) grenade, low damage, -25% reflect, around, would be useful when you're looking at too many reflects in some situations in pvm and would be an extra check against heavy reflect profs in pvp (I think the shield ripper aura takes a bit long to kick in in PvP unless you decide to actually CAST it in PVP, which against Soldier/Shield MP/NS2 NT I'd consider other actions first.)

While I find it somewhat disappointing that Means isn't a fan of what could be one of the biggest potential areas that Engineers have that they could get improvments in, I'm more curious as to why? With a large arsenal of grenades all locking Grenade skill for various lengths of time, Engies would have a wide array of tools for dealing with lots of different situations, all within their toolset, and all hopefully tradeskilled on top of it.

Did Means explain why he wasn't a fan of more Grenade, by any chance?

**Amortia** · Nov 5th, 2009, 21:01:32

Originally Posted by Chrazy

There is a perk in game already (can't remember the name) that looks like the person throwing a grenade, evolve it!

I think a couple do. I Know Chemical blindness is one of em.

**Obtena** · Nov 5th, 2009, 21:54:31

Maybe it's a better suggestion to have AOE ammo, but making the whole weapon line do AoE damage is a horrible idea. There are many instances were you don't want to AoE things.

**IHaveHugeNick** · Nov 5th, 2009, 23:29:51

AOE gun subject was beaten to death on Engineer forum, the general consensus always seemed to be **** NO. Unfortunately AOE guns bring more trouble than it is worh it.

Idea of thrown grenades isn't liked by our current Game Director, he instead gave us Battlestation Only mines in hope we will mine places with them, but , what an unexpected surprise, we use them as thrown grenades with melee range.

**Mostadio** · Nov 6th, 2009, 01:20:38

Give engineers a type 1 proc that enables the AOE effect. That way it can be enabled and disabled at will.

**srompu** · Nov 6th, 2009, 07:52:19

Originally Posted by IHaveHugeNick

AOE gun subject was beaten to death on Engineer forum, the general consensus always seemed to be **** NO. Unfortunately AOE guns bring more trouble than it is worh it.

Idea of thrown grenades isn't liked by our current Game Director, he instead gave us Battlestation Only mines in hope we will mine places with them, but , what an unexpected surprise, we use them as thrown grenades with melee range.

Can has linkie plix?

Just wondering what reasoning led to the burial. Grenades being grenade-style just seems so darn cool.

**Technogen** · Nov 6th, 2009, 08:28:27

Too hard to keep balanced mainly, means just didn't feel like dealing with it last time it was brought up.

**IHaveHugeNick** · Nov 6th, 2009, 08:35:19

Originally Posted by Technogen

Too hard to keep balanced mainly, means just didn't feel like dealing with it last time it was brought up.

Not really, no.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...70&postcount=1

Question 2.

Originally Posted by Means

Q: Thrown Grenades for Engineers.

No. All the other tools introduced with these two new mechanics are largely defensive. Engineers are not meant to be the "Charge in ahead of the Tank throwing aoe-grenades with special blockers up" class...I am sorry if some disagree. The ability to hold an area defensively is an incredibly powerfull tool..and should not be taken lightly. If the engineer community feels that mines are a horrible idea then clearly we haven't established a good dialogue to make sure our intentions are clear. This is our fault. Things have been busy and I am sorry it has been late in coming. I was hoping to have these complete for testing this week...but other serious issues unfortunately had to take precedence..

Now if you want to ask me WTF exactly is "tank" in PvP and why would i charge in front of anything if i had a ranged grenade, and how is rushing in front to throw my melee mine on people (which is what i do) better - i do not know , and i do not think i want to know

**srompu** · Nov 6th, 2009, 08:46:40

Bleh lame.

That's like removing Kels in oldschool NW because NTs would go all rambo in front of the zerg.
Maybe he'd revisit it with all the perk changes.

**Phylicity** · Nov 6th, 2009, 11:20:42

I dont know what part of THROWN means doesnt get here. Engineers could get at like a medium range of 20 meters from a target and use a thrown grenade like a useable item. Its not like you'll leeroy ahead of an enforcer just to throw a grenade... that is currently done with the battlestation mines right now.

**Obtena** · Nov 6th, 2009, 22:18:36

Originally Posted by Phylicity

I dont know what part of THROWN means doesnt get here. Engineers could get at like a medium range of 20 meters from a target and use a thrown grenade like a useable item. Its not like you'll leeroy ahead of an enforcer just to throw a grenade... that is currently done with the battlestation mines right now.

I guess there is some thinking that it might be OPed if an engi can throw a grenade and shoot a grenade gun? Personally, I don't get the hang up. AOE grenades that work like thrown weapon would be fine to me. Might be a nice way to get people out of sneak, or blind a group of people, or snare, etc... Grenades aren't all about damage.

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