concerns, worries

**Ellarisa** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 16:01:47

warning beforehand: this might be a wall of text

note: i dont mean to start a 'nade vs pistol battle or w/e

yeah, i'm quite worried atm.
with all the changes being announced i'm quite concerned about where FC is pushing us. over the last ~2 years we've seen quite a lot of changes to what FC thinks of us and what they want us to do.

let's look at what we've gotten so far since LE: (or at least stuff that affects us)
17.2:
Dreadloch (Combat) Remodulator
Dreadloch Obliterator

17.7:
Engineer Composite Specialist Tradeskills (8 hours)
Improved Isochronal Sloughing Combat Field
Improved Shield of the Obedient Servant
Mechanized Reflect Shield

Master's Repairs

17.8
Infused Solar-Powered Master Engineer Pistol
Infused Dust Brigade Engineer Pistol

17.9
Formula 22
Augmented Master Engineer Pistol

17.10
Ravening M-60
Intrusive Aura of Sloth

18.0:
xan symbs

18.1
PM perks get lower def check (and full line unlocked)
Sloth of the Xan
Lust of the Xan

now let's look at what FC seem to tell me:

17.2: look! more choices for TSkill monkeys!
17.7: you're a TSkill monkey that relys purely on pets!
17.8: pistol love! go go pistols!
17.9: we still love pistols!
17.10: here's some more love for the TSkill monkeys!
18.0: here's some pistol love (burst), some grenade love, and some uaint love (MA)! enjoy!
18.1: more pistol love! and also a new toy for the wierdos.
upcoming changes:
go go grenade! screw pistol, screw AS, screw shotty.
oh and here's the last 2 PU perks, like you asked for a few years ago! (too bad we're nerfing AS)

what's in store for me:
- i'm gonna have to redo my DD setup completly (not looking forward to this)
- i will be even less viable in pvp then i already am when it comes to killing power

the problem isn't that they give both weapons some love, the problem is that they cant seem to make up their mind on wtf we are supposed to be.

what are they supposed to do?
tell us what we are supposed to be and either support both weapon choices or pick 1 and stick with it. seriously
nerfing 1 option and improving the other and vice versa is NOT fun at all.

dont get me wrong, i love my engi and i love play her, but i'd appreciate it if you would keep in mind that some of us have worked on their setup for the last 2 years and will have to throw it all out of the window cause they're choice of weapons isnt the best anymore.

i'm not pissed at all, dont worry. i'm just... confused.
Greetings,

Ellarisa

PS: told you so

**Solidstriker** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 16:11:49

C'est la vie! ;(

But not having a sense of direction for some things seems to be a trend, hehe.

**Xyphos** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 17:47:12

speaking of wierdos...

nade = <3
can't wait to see the new toy FC's designed for me.

PS. Why aren't you our professional yet, Ella?

**Ellarisa** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 17:50:31

could you stay on topic please?

also, FC's way of doing things seems to be fitting for you, cause you've probably switched weapons more often then alco has in his 4 years of existance.

Greetings,

Ellarisa

**Memphisraves** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 20:06:09

In my last 7 years this is the history and trend I've seen / semi-followed.

2002 - Shotgun / MA (Krutt + ELLTS)
2003 - Pistol / MA / Rifle
2004 - Pistol / MA
2005 - Grenade / Pistol / MA
2006 - Grenade / Pistol / MA
2007 - Grenade / EC3 / Pistol / MA
2008 - EC3 - Grenade / Pistol / MA
2009 - Pistol / Grenade / EC3 / MA

The Future - Grenade / Pistol / EC3 / MA (Possibly?)

Ellarisa is right, the trend hits a wave that never seems to stop, we constantly change primary weapon choices and not only does this REQUIRE us to have full IPR's but in the past we had to burn single IPR's for this. As well as she stated, our time spent gathering items to increase our survivability / damage dealing in a certain toolset is consuming, and that is usually for nothing once these major changes hit us constantly. But then again Engi's aren't alone, enf's have had a rough time with a constant change in primary weapon choices as well, so FC MAKE UP your mind!

**MajorOutage** · Nov 2nd, 2009, 21:12:52

I'm not changing a damn thing about my engi's weapon setup until I have a reason to seriously play him again, which means (a) pet response issues are fixed and/or (b) zomg new phats i must have them

And even then, until Gimpbucket starts OD'ing me fairly, I'm not worried.

**Mereditche** · Nov 4th, 2009, 11:09:52

I changed from KEC3 to pistol+onehander the weekend before the pm perk nerf. It really pissed me off. Cost me a few single IPR's. FC should stop screwing around and get their act together.

There was no reason whatsoever to nerf all pistol users because of OP advys. The fact we have to make this clear to FC just shows how bad this balancing thing will end. They clearly are clueless about what they're doing.

Well I had some fun being able to perk more than just soldiers and docs for some time. It's back to useless perks, even worse than before the nerf. I'd rather have perks that work with reduced effect than completely useless ones. Why give perk actions if they don't land anyway, just don't put them there if we're not supposed to use em.

**zartosht** · Nov 4th, 2009, 16:26:07

Originally Posted by uaintseenme

only freaks and lonely people use grenade.

qft

**Madene** · Nov 5th, 2009, 09:14:10

Just me that wants grenade sl perk line turned into a pistol buffing line?

**Amickson** · Nov 5th, 2009, 10:23:46

Originally Posted by Fuglskremsel

Just me that wants grenade sl perk line turned into a pistol buffing line?

Demolitions = +200 grenade
Pistol Mastery = +200 pistol
Pistol is buffed exactly same as grenade, perfectly balanced.

**Carlmalone** · Nov 5th, 2009, 17:48:09

I've been off a while.

So from what I see pistols are no longer worth switching to? I was looking forward to giving them a try... again.

I think I fell your confusion too Ellarisa. Also, I'm now afraid to start any changes, since who knows when I'll have to IPR again.

I'd like to avoid:

"I changed from KEC3 to pistol+onehander the weekend before the pm perk nerf."

I've used pistols, EC3, Grenade, and now still using my dshark. Tell me it's safe to change my setup again? Please? I think I know the answer though.

**Ellarisa** · Nov 5th, 2009, 17:51:49

personally i wouldn't do any major setup changes yet until more is clear about the rebalancing crap.
depends also on how much you pvp though i guess.

in the end it's up to you, but i very much doubt that they'll start the major rebalancing in the next month

Greetings,

Ellarisa

**Carlmalone** · Nov 5th, 2009, 18:05:05

You see, I'd like to do more pvp on my engineer, I honestly wanted to farm ai 30 before I got back into it. Now, that may actually become an easily achieved reality, if I can force myself to do it.

Though, I must say it is always fun hunting down soldiers or doctors. Especially when they think you are a soldier. I'll have to move onto pistols, ec3, or bow to get the job done against anything else. I also think 1 month is enough time to have a little fun with that. I think I have 6 IPRs and 1 Full IPR left... the free one from a few patches ago I think. I think I can tank 2 more setup changes no problem without farming IPRs. Thanks to sector 42.

**Takun** · Nov 6th, 2009, 03:08:14

I don't think the "one weapon for all situations" is something that really applies to a support class like the engineer. I know it would be nice and save tons of IP, but you have to give up something in exchange for that. We one time where going over weapons.. it's like what? Bow, RE, Grenade, Pistol, MA, Rifle etc. If we where.. say.. fixers whats our options? SMG.. uh.. SMG and oh yah SMG.

One of the reasons I enjoyed AO was the ability to do what ever the hell I wanted with weapons regardless of if it was 'good' or not. I think the perfect example is my ranged energy nanomage solider which I dual logged with my assault rifle trox doctor. Having other weapon lines as viable options is something a class should smile upon. However the problem then follows that while fixers only can really use SMG-s they also are awesome at using them (and get patch support for them) where as we are mediocre in most of our weapons.

Making sure we get decent support for pistols and grenades is all good and fine, however I believe the biggest part they ditch out on each patch is then the pets damage regardless of what type of engineer you are, you have pets. Pets are a constant among all setups and gearing... juggling weapon choices is hard, having uber pets is something everyone can work with and agree to.

**Mountaingoat** · Nov 6th, 2009, 05:24:26

Originally Posted by Ellarisa

Dreadloch (Combat) Remodulator

Precious!!!!

**erozc** · Nov 6th, 2009, 11:24:03

Originally Posted by Carlmalone

You see, I'd like to do more pvp on my engineer, I honestly wanted to farm ai 30 before I got back into it. Now, that may actually become an easily achieved reality, if I can force myself to do it.

Though, I must say it is always fun hunting down soldiers or doctors. Especially when they think you are a soldier. I'll have to move onto pistols, ec3, or bow to get the job done against anything else. I also think 1 month is enough time to have a little fun with that. I think I have 6 IPRs and 1 Full IPR left... the free one from a few patches ago I think. I think I can tank 2 more setup changes no problem without farming IPRs. Thanks to sector 42.

As I've understood, there is a full IPR incoming when the changes get to live. This is due to not only the perk changes, but parry/riposte changes as well. I think it's quite probably that the full IPR's don't stack (what happened with the last one as well) so if you really want to swap, why not. It doesn't really seem that the rebalancing stuff is going to hit live anytime soon. Famous last words, yes, I know.

**zartosht** · Nov 6th, 2009, 12:50:08

Originally Posted by Takun

...

Around Halloween time They rise from the Deads and march upon us...

**Philty** · Nov 6th, 2009, 14:48:41

My worst nightmare is that they would nerf pistol and improve slightly grenade with obvious result that both options would be practically ineffective. I have strong fear that we are already on the way to this bitter end.
I do not speak about shotty or RE as it looks that after proposed changes these would fell into category "absurd options".

**Takun** · Nov 6th, 2009, 18:16:53

Originally Posted by zartosht

Around Halloween time They rise from the dead and march upon us...

..bringing us hope of better times, as they pass out candy with little messages of grenade support and swarm those who praise the lines of pistol and burst :P

Originally Posted by Philty

My worst nightmare is that they would nerf pistol and improve slightly grenade with obvious result that both options would be practically ineffective.

Lolwut.

Pistols although ****ty for pvp (kind of always have been, this is funcoms problem not ours) are rockstar for pve deeps. So what if they nerf pistols? Engineers won't be in the top 3 for damage after a zerg raid? Oh noes! PvE is serious funcom don't nerf my guns ;[

On a more serious note, if grenade ends up being better than pistol and all of you switch over, you will never hear the end of it from me, so pick your words carefully with the new changes right around the courner.

**Dreadwind** · Nov 6th, 2009, 20:49:26

Originally Posted by Takun

On a more serious note, if grenade ends up being better than pistol and all of you switch over, you will never hear the end of it from me

I've dreamed of the day. I know so many people who would never hear the end of it from me either.

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