2 hour MP pets=finally lower reqs on engi pets?

[Swordbreaker]

Why should I use lower level pet when we were talking about end game pets exclusively?

I thought we were talking about choices one has to make to do certain things!

How exactly that helps with MP pet lasting longer then 30 minutes? Me rolling one triggers 2 hour pet duration on my MP? Edit: I tried, it didn't work.

You rolling one grants you "infinite pets". Pet timer problem solved!

I must say I agree with that bolded part up there. You really don't.

Har har.

I believe moochies had a reason back then for not being self only.

Yeah. But think about having to get one just to cast your endgame pet. Fun stuff, isn't it?

They shudda made it so that MPs would've needed a trader pocket to cast Rihwen every 30 mins!

If it's a general weapon, it doesn't mean it was intended solely for someone else and not for you as well (especially if you have support for it, which you do).

There's support and then there's "support". In the case of Dshark that some Engies use, you can use it by sheer luck rather than design. REC3? Some support for Ranged energy, yes. But it requires more skills to keep out of OE and has worse min/max damage and MBS anyway than the MP equivalent! Shotgun? Some support for it as well. But the problem is that any shotgun worth a damn is Trader only.

Best support for pistols and grenade. :I

I can show you several pieces of RE boosting items

Many of them also boost Bow (research HUD, tuner). 80 from helm, 75 from chest. 75 from best Manual aiding thingie. 50 from second best.

and special eye implant thingie that is usable by engies,

Yeah. It is usable by Engies. But this is one of the things where Engineers get to the part about trouble with nanoskills. MPs get more AS, for instance, from other, professional "specific" sources than an Engineer would (125 from an LE research, 50 from manual aiming aid) even if the Engineer is using a QL300 EOE for his 100 AS.

but I'll leave it for you to figure it out yourself. Ofc, there's a buff (70) for boosting RE (no such thing for bow)

Yeah, you just get it back from Sureshot Glasses, OFAB chest and Manual aid.

and another one on top of composite expertise as well but, that's another story, probably more suitable for the "sploit section" of this game.

If it's a sploit, then it's a sploit and shouldn't be used anyway. Simple.

Good, you are halfway to your goal. Now you just have to learn the meaning of that word.

No I don't. I know it just fine. You don't seem to even realize what I'm actually doing here, though.

Yes. You see, if I use bow, this is the sacrifice I'm forced (using "engie language", 'cos there's no such word as "willing" in their books) to do.

TBH, considering that your survival nanos don't have all that awesomely high nano requirements, I don't see what you are really sacrificing, anyway. I think you're just talking.

The main problem is, my bow doesn't perform the same (once equipped) if I replace i.e. AS symbs and scope with nano skill "versions" of items in those slots, unlike your bots.

Um, guess why Engineers use AS implants and everything which in turn makes casting things a whole lot harder? Would it have something to do with... I dunno... Their weapons not functioning as well without them?

In other words because of the same thing you just said? Except of course you will have less of a problem with it anyway, since your innate ability in the ways of nanoskills are much higher than those of an Engineer.

No, I don't. Nothing special happened, I adapted.

So for you "having trouble with nanoskills" is "adapting", while the same for an Engineer is "not adapting"? Weird.

Well, we are both pet users, you have blockers, we have blockers. I have 2 less. Wai? Obviously there is something wrong with this picture. I want 7 blockers as well and I want them to refresh like yours.

And I want a heal pet, a pistol in the ways of Dreadloch Tigress, an Engi Zset, an Engi Odin's Eye and Mochies and so on!

Lets not forget crats. They have no blockers at all but, they too are pet users. Now, WTF is that for?

They also don't have heal pets, their own pistol AS weapon nor a Zset. What's up with that!

But, I'm not opposing anything.

Yeah, you're just whining about nothing! I know!

I CAN'T! I won't be happy 'till I get your tradeskill buffs as well!!! Oo

And I want your NSD, nukes and ease of travel in SL!

I know what it means, I'm just interested in that "etc" thing you are implying we gonna get, along with 2 hour pets.

"Gonna get"? Not all of them were "gonna get" kind of things. Many of them were "what you have".

Well, I have no idea what our "to be" 2 hour pets have to do with your nano skill reqs being lowered, that's for sure.

Yes indeed, it is difficult to understand the correlation between many a crat and MP saying "no" to lowered requirements on Engi pets/baffs while using the good old excuse of their own pets being so short lived, and it having been somewhat confirmed by some embittered professional.

There's a cure for that, you know.

You mean there's a cure for Klod's smarteyness?

*It's "et cetera", not "etcetera".

Mister smartypants. I quote off Wikipedia: "The one-word spelling 'etcetera' is commonly used, and is accepted as correct by many dictionaries."

DOH!

[Klodovik]

I thought we were talking about choices one has to make to do certain things!

I still have no choice to cast 2 hour end game pet. You have choice to avoid swapping for casting yours tho.

You rolling one grants you "infinite pets". Pet timer problem solved!

But, but... I have to swap stuff.

Yeah. But think about having to get one just to cast your endgame pet. Fun stuff, isn't it?

MPs kinda scarce today, ain't they?

They shudda made it so that MPs would've needed a trader pocket to cast Rihwen every 30 mins!

Ya, but then you wouldn't have anyone to giev you moochies.

REC3? Some support for Ranged energy, yes. But it requires more skills to keep out of OE and has worse min/max damage and MBS anyway than the MP equivalent!

Funny. Engies used it effectively even before LE. What happened?

Shotgun? Some support for it as well. But the problem is that any shotgun worth a damn is Trader only.

Make a thread about it, I'll bump it. Oh, wait. I already did that.

Best support for pistols and grenade. :I

Nerf grenade and pistol engies.

Many of them also boost Bow (research HUD, tuner). 80 from helm, 75 from chest. 75 from best Manual aiding thingie. 50 from second best.

Mweh, they give no HP. I want 20k HP, just like engies. I'm not viable without it.

Yeah. It is usable by Engies. But this is one of the things where Engineers get to the part about trouble with nanoskills. MPs get more AS, for instance, from other, professional "specific" sources than an Engineer would (125 from an LE research, 50 from manual aiming aid) even if the Engineer is using a QL300 EOE for his 100 AS.

Lucky for you it requires less AS skill to cap.

Yeah, you just get it back from Sureshot Glasses, OFAB chest and Manual aid.

WTF? Why do I have to use buffing items to be viable at PvP?

If it's a sploit, then it's a sploit and shouldn't be used anyway. Simple.

Shhh. I didn't say anything.

No I don't. I know it just fine. You don't seem to even realize what I'm actually doing here, though.

Of course I do. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't.

TBH, considering that your survival nanos don't have all that awesomely high nano requirements, I don't see what you are really sacrificing, anyway.

Oh, but I am. You just don't see it.

I think you're just talking.

I'm actually writing, but OK.

Um, guess why Engineers use AS implants and everything which in turn makes casting things a whole lot harder? Would it have something to do with... I dunno... Their weapons not functioning as well without them?

Hmmm... Welcome to the club. At least you don't have to keep your nano skills high enough all the time. I do.

In other words because of the same thing you just said? Except of course you will have less of a problem with it anyway, since your innate ability in the ways of nanoskills are much higher than those of an Engineer.

But it's not fair that my bow performs poorly when I remove that stuff.

So for you "having trouble with nanoskills" is "adapting", while the same for an Engineer is "not adapting"? Weird.

So, you don't have trouble with nano skills now?

And I want a heal pet, a pistol in the ways of Dreadloch Tigress, an Engi Zset, an Engi Odin's Eye and Mochies and so on!

Can I have that 10k absorb, BioR and those 2 extra blockers then? So they don't make a mess on your hot bar.

They also don't have heal pets, their own pistol AS weapon nor a Zset. What's up with that!

Yeah, that stuff puzzles me as well. They should immediately give engies init debuffs, calms, charms, roots, snares and stuns.

Yeah, you're just whining about nothing! I know!

It's for the good cause. Not like that evil engie stuff. They just wanna break stuff. Shame on you.

And I want your NSD, nukes and ease of travel in SL!

Try with /terminate. Poor man's NSD and ease of travel, at the same time.

"Gonna get"? Not all of them were "gonna get" kind of things. Many of them were "what you have".

Yeah. We got heavily nerfed part of engie toolset. Wanna trade?

Yes indeed, it is difficult to understand the correlation between many a crat and MP saying "no" to lowered requirements on Engi pets/baffs while using the good old excuse of their own pets being so short lived, and it having been somewhat confirmed by some embittered professional.

We are not saying "no". Where did you get that?

You mean there's a cure for Klod's smarteyness?

Of course there is.

Mister smartypants. I quote off Wikipedia: "The one-word spelling 'etcetera' is commonly used, and is accepted as correct by many dictionaries."

DOH!

It indeed proves something. BTW, there's nothing better then seeing people from English speaking countries butchering Latin language like that.

[Technogen]

WILL YOU FERS STOP THE DAMN WALL OF TEXT SHAT!

sigh seriously.

[shadowgod]

Um, guess why Engineers use AS implants and everything which in turn makes casting things a whole lot harder? Would it have something to do with... I dunno... Their weapons not functioning as well without them?

see.. now klod glossed over this jewel of a quote too easily.

and i do find it rather sad seeing someone getting utterly pwnd by klod of all people.

but back to this quote...

i'd like to know why engies are suppose to be the exception? why does every other profession have to make sacrifices between different play styles, different toolset options, but engies demand that they must do it all without sacrifice?


EDIT: and oh... FYI... wikipedia does not authoritative source make. thought everyone already knew this by now...

[Maxisolja]

lower req's for engies, give them a instacast/recharge version of the top NT sl root and we can all roll engi's and play happily ever after ok?

[Technogen]

lower req's for engies, give them a instacast/recharge version of the top NT sl root and we can all roll engi's and play happily ever after ok?

Our pets still wouldnt make it to the target

[Flyingengi]

Why not ask for an eye symb with AS in it like mps are doing? Just a thought :P

[Technogen]

We have? We've asked for symbs with weapons skills in them since symbs were put in game.

[Chrys]

I can't cast Rihwen without Mochams and/or Odin's why should engies get to?

I have Nano Doctorate and CoNC maxed even

[Swordbreaker]

and i do find it rather sad seeing someone getting utterly pwnd by klod of all people.

Ha. If comparing the fact that both MPs and Engies use imps to do things (but MPs can still retain a lot more functionality) is "getting utterly pwned by klod"...

I want some of that stuff you're smoking.

i'd like to know why engies are suppose to be the exception?

I guess this is why my original stance was to lower the pet reqs until someone diverted it into pet buffs as well. Because MPs and Crats are the exceptions there. They could cast their pets in quite a bit of combat gear due to them being so easily castable (even with those durn imps). Case in point: Both high-end engi pets have higher reqs than any of the MP pets, MPs however have 260 nanoskills coming from buffs alone. And now MP and Crat pets are getting longer staying up times, too.

The high reqs on buffs was explained away as that "they're choices", not something to be taken for granted. Except people don't really like the fact that fixes to old gripes suddenly take more nanoskills than the pets themselves. Like SL pet reflects taking 2147MC/TS even though it's a fix to something people had been RAGING over for years. Luckily ISOTOS' requirements are below pet requirements, so...

Yes, I think this whole people diverting us from the "reduce pet requirements" to "pet buffs" is indeed a bad thing no matter what they say. Because there's no reason for that without reducing the buff reqs on everyone once the reqs have settled in.

but engies demand that they must do it all without sacrifice?

Yes, because the same sacrifices MPs do are hardly sacrifices. I know.

EDIT: and oh... FYI... wikipedia does not authoritative source make. thought everyone already knew this by now...

Yeah, but it does generally have the information you need, especially on trite and idiotic things like this. And it should be known, even by nitpicking MPs, that "etcetera" is, well, an accepted way of typing it.

[Swordbreaker]

I still have no choice to cast 2 hour end game pet. You have choice to avoid swapping for casting yours tho.

You can still reroll Engineer!

But, but... I have to swap stuff.

Only if you go for a setup that actually works for PvP!

MPs kinda scarce today, ain't they?

I was thinking more in the ways of 2003-2004, not today. These days people swap! Well, swap and beg for mochies, but still.

Ya, but then you wouldn't have anyone to giev you moochies.

Who said I needed them?

Funny. Engies used it effectively even before LE. What happened?

Never said they didn't (or don't) use it effectively. Are you saying you can't use Dreadloch Tigress effectively? I said an Engineer needs moar wapoon skeelz to even use it than an MP needs for Tigress. That means a bigger need for stupid imps and CSS/CC/whateverstupidgearyouhappentouse!

Make a thread about it, I'll bump it. Oh, wait. I already did that.

Why should I? I don't really care about shotguns. It was an example!

Nerf grenade and pistol engies.

nai

Mweh, they give no HP. I want 20k HP, just like engies. I'm not viable without it.

I wonder how many Engies actually have 20K HP.

Lucky for you it requires less AS skill to cap.

How so is it lucky for me?

WTF? Why do I have to use buffing items to be viable at PvP?

I guess the same reason why you and Engies use buffing imps (and why these Engies use this mythical thing called "combat gear") to be viable at PvP?

Shhh. I didn't say anything.

OK!

Of course I do. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't.

I'm doubting!

Oh, but I am. You just don't see it.

Hard to see what's not there!

I'm actually writing, but OK.

Mister Literal Klod!

Hmmm... Welcome to the club. At least you don't have to keep your nano skills high enough all the time. I do.

Just every time the pets go I guess! (yes the pets do frown)

But it's not fair that my bow performs poorly when I remove that stuff.

It's not fair Engi guns work poorly when they remove that stuff, too. They could be doing tradeskills while fighting but NOOOO, STUPID AR!

So, you don't have trouble with nano skills now?

What? I just asked if for you "trouble with nanoskills" = "Adapting", then why is "trouble with nanoskills" = "Not adapting" for an Engineer!

Can I have that 10k absorb, BioR and those 2 extra blockers then? So they don't make a mess on your hot bar.

You can't have them, you can copy them, though. I'll take everything that makes an MP (and a crat) in return, though. Just think about it. Heal pet + reflects + blockers + bio shielding (cocoon + bior) + stun procs + insane AAD + evades and stuff! Let's call it the Cratengicisist! That has seven pets!

Yeah, that stuff puzzles me as well. They should immediately give engies init debuffs, calms, charms, roots, snares and stuns.

Indeed!

It's for the good cause. Not like that evil engie stuff. They just wanna break stuff. Shame on you.

I break swords

Try with /terminate. Poor man's NSD and ease of travel, at the same time.

I don't want to NSD myself, I want to NSD joo!

Yeah. We got heavily nerfed part of engie toolset. Wanna trade?

Well at least you got a nerfed part of the engie toolset. Where's our nerfed part of the MP toolset?!

We are not saying "no". Where did you get that?

"Are" isn't the same as "were". Can't you read omg?

Of course there is.

share plx

It indeed proves something. BTW, there's nothing better then seeing people from English speaking countries butchering Latin language like that.

They have the privilege to do so because Latin is a dead language, and this is a loan word in the English language rather than proper Latin anyway.

[Camar]

Well at least you got a nerfed part of the engie toolset. Where's our nerfed part of the MP toolset?!

60 more research in both MC/TS = nerfed Odin, and you don't even have to cast it!

sorry couldn't resist

[Chrys]

WILL YOU FERS STOP THE DAMN WALL OF TEXT SHAT!

sigh seriously.

Halp I find myself agreeing with a engy troll.

U C WAT U M8 ME DO KLLOD N SWORDFACE????

[bungerman]

I've figured it out. MPs LOVE buffing CM and with lower requirements we wouldn't need to chat with them on a daily basis and that would make them lonely and sad. I'm sorry, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings

60 more research in both MC/TS = nerfed Odin, and you don't even have to cast it!

sorry couldn't resist

very observant young one, yet you forgot to mention the LE gains from MP

=Matter creation 45
Time and space 60

time for some copy paste

then to end todays lesson, we just add the 2 buffs MPs get to the discrepancy above and get our lovely prof being short:

-390 SI
-340 MM
-404 BM
-390 PM
-300 MC
-295 TS

then we get to our reqs on buffs... which is what this thread is all about

MP highest requirements on any nano: 2209 TS 2209 MC
ENGI highest requirements on any nano: 2147 TS 2147 MC

only +62 MC/TS difference on the highest nanos...

In summation, MPs having on average + ~300ish more nanoskills and only +62 on their highests nano doesn't quite fit.

edit: klod answer me how MPs sacrifice for the tigress when they can self it and swap to zset if they wanted to but we can barely keep ours out of OE?

[Klodovik]

WILL YOU FERS STOP THE DAMN WALL OF TEXT SHAT!

sigh seriously.

Nooooooooooo.

We have? We've asked for symbs with weapons skills in them since symbs were put in game.

Well, you got crapload of grenade support now.

Don't mind me, I actually understand you.

Ha. If comparing the fact that both MPs and Engies use imps to do things (but MPs can still retain a lot more functionality) is "getting utterly pwned by klod"...

But we don't retain a lot more functionality.

Will be back to our littal discussion later. Just doing a quick reply now.

Yes, because the same sacrifices MPs do are hardly sacrifices. I know.

No, you don't.

Yeah, but it does generally have the information you need, especially on trite and idiotic things like this. And it should be known, even by nitpicking MPs, that "etcetera" is, well, an accepted way of typing it.

But, it's still wrong.

very observant young one, yet you forgot to mention the LE gains from MP

=Matter creation 45
Time and space 60

So? You got 2 times more then that.

edit: klod answer me how MPs sacrifice for the tigress when they can self it and swap to zset if they wanted to but we can barely keep ours out of OE?

You answered it yourself.

[Camar]

very observant young one, yet you forgot to mention the LE gains from MP

That's why I said more, MPs gain 45/60, Engies gain 100/120.

Also, Engies need to only have the nanoskills when they cast the pets, MPs need them all the time, since in order to survive, they need to actually land nanos on people. No swapping for a quick 125 with just two items, and then back to combat gear. MPs have to actually keep all 6 nanoskills up to max, since every single one of them is needed in at least one offensive nano that is crucial to survival.

That is why MPs actually sacrifice MORE by using imps instead of symbs, they have not only the regular AR and AS to worry about, but also Nano AR.

This whole thread is just comparing apples with oranges...

[bungerman]

That's why I said more, MPs gain 45/60, Engies gain 100/120.

Also, Engies need to only have the nanoskills when they cast the pets, MPs need them all the time, since in order to survive, they need to actually land nanos on people. No swapping for a quick 125 with just two items, and then back to combat gear. MPs have to actually keep all 6 nanoskills up to max, since every single one of them is needed in at least one offensive nano that is crucial to survival.

That is why MPs actually sacrifice MORE by using imps instead of symbs, they have not only the regular AR and AS to worry about, but also Nano AR.

This whole thread is just comparing apples with oranges...

wrong, engi auras land based on % of nanoskills so it's the same, guess we should get +260 from 2 buffs in nanoskills for that too? good point

[Camar]

wrong, engi auras land based on % of nanoskills so it's the same, guess we should get +260 from 2 buffs in nanoskills for that too? good point

You don't honestly compare landing a snare or a blind aura (which pulses...) to having to 100% reliably land Sac Shield for ex. and die the first time it doesn't land...

[crattey]

Why do people even care what requirements engi pet nanos have? Other than engis, that is...

[Technogen]

Why do people even care what requirements engi pet nanos have? Other than engis, that is...

Because they are retarded and think that these things matter.

"Engineers would be OP IF they could cast their pets!!!!!"