Monthly Development Update: April 2012

[Binarybits]

Really?

I like the part where your cited statistics are 1.) outdated, from 2010 and 2.) with a sunshine inspired projected reversal uptrend for future rates. (the graph shows a plateau until future numbers being guessed show an amazing resurgence of subscribers!)

Anyhow, FC nailed it in my opinion with game mechanics, storyline and content (except SL im still scratching my head wondering WTF with that 'expansion'). The only things missing from this game to make amazing again is the graphics update to please the 'oh it's pretty = good game' crowd some god danm advertising (no not the kind that compares our graphics engine to that of duke nukem forever... because that game already came out).

But that's nothing that hasn't already been said before

[NoGoal]

That's a 2 year old posting. About it plateauing. If you read about it recently they had a reduction in subscriber count by over 1 million.

I like the part where your cited statistics are 1.) outdated, from 2010 and 2.) with a sunshine inspired projected reversal uptrend for future rates. (the graph shows a plateau until future numbers being guessed show an amazing resurgence of subscribers!)

Uh, numbers set in time can't be outdated. I didn't say that WoW has 12m subs right now.

You can't deny that WoW increased its playerbase over years and it only dropped recently (mostly) due to competitors [which E.V.E. doesn't have] and other reasons I won't detail here.

My point wasn't really about that part of Masta's argument though. It was more to highlight that (at least 2) games with dev support managed to grow their playerbase over years compared to AO which had sporadic support/updates.

A mistake FC is trying to fix up now or so I've heard.

[IHaveHugeNick]

EVE, the possibly most newbie hostile game of all has a community that is full of people ready to help you not to make easy mistakes early on and provide guidance and help. And it's a game of ultimate pvp, unlike AO's carebear pvp. So, where's the difference? I certainly don't see the difficulty of getting into the game as something that would turn people hostile to new players.

I guess the only place where you saw Eve was on YouTube.

The tutorial alone takes 30 minutes, and yes, they keep improving it, imagine that. The official website has further dozens of in depth materials about gameplay and game mechanics, whereas in AO to find out how anything works you have to dig through multitude of archive forum posts, urban myths and educated guesses made by people who quit in 2002. Eve newbie channel has actual community representative present at all times. The amount of information they provide is tremendous and its all at arm's reach. AO has nothing. Community cant help the game tutor new players if the game doesn't help itself.

I think it comes down to one simple thing: People want to get the best stuff ASAP and have their hands held through the entire process.

AO isn't like that and it never will be. It's probably the most "brain" intensive game I've ever seen. People are so used to getting skills/armor as they progress that the idea of having to work it out on your own is absurd.

Ah yes, the good old lets pat ourselves on the back about how video game we play is so intelletually challenging, we must be pillars of the world, shining beacons of intelect on everyone around us.

AO for leveling players is extremely simple game, there's literally nothing complex about it. The only thing new players need is a little guidance to push them in right direction. Like, god forbid, some explanation what their profession actually is, instead of 11 year old RP descriptions.

The complexity doesn't kick in until playing for at least few months, no one becomes avid twinker on their first day - and there's no need too.

[Mastablasta]

I guess the only place where you saw Eve was on YouTube.

The tutorial alone takes 30 minutes, and yes, they keep improving it, imagine that. The official website has further dozens of in depth materials about gameplay and game mechanics, whereas in AO to find out how anything works you have to dig through multitude of archive forum posts, urban myths and educated guesses made by people who quit in 2002. Eve newbie channel has actual community representative present at all times. The amount of information they provide is tremendous and its all at arm's reach. AO has nothing. Community cant help the game tutor new players if the game doesn't help itself.

No, I played EVE for over a year. And while in AO you might have to dig through forum posts, in EVE you have to dig through lengthy posts on ballistics, the impact on speed, distance, relative size of objects and so on, that was not covered by the tutorial last I played through it. Which albeit was several years ago. Like I said, they improved upon it and had at least 3 that I know of, as well as having reduced the timer for skill training, increased what you start with and so on and so forth.
Still a newbie hostile game, because as much as the tutorial can be useful, it still just dumps you into a game where you are the game, and there's no quest story line for you to follow which hands out weapons and gear and ships to you all the time.. which is what I can see is being asked for here.

[Mastablasta]

Uh, numbers set in time can't be outdated. I didn't say that WoW has 12m subs right now.

You can't deny that WoW increased its playerbase over years and it only dropped recently (mostly) due to competitors [which E.V.E. doesn't have] and other reasons I won't detail here.

No, I said that EVE was the only (western) mmo to have known continual growth throughout its lifetime. That WoW had continual growth untill a year ago makes that statement true. You can't dispute it by saying WoW, which is a younger game than EVE, had growth untill a year ago when it started declining.

[IHaveHugeNick]

Still a newbie hostile game, because as much as the tutorial can be useful, it still just dumps you into a game where you are the game, and there's no quest story line for you to follow which hands out weapons and gear and ships to you all the time.. which is what I can see is being asked for here.

Yeah, no. Its not like that at all.

When i first played (2007ish) starting may have been a bit rough.

For a good few years now, after tutorial you get directed towards tutorial mission agent who gets you started on chain of storyline quests that constantly provide you with cash, ships, weapons, skill books, equipment, all while sometimes providing additional, practical knowledge on how some of the mechanics and how the equipment works. If i remember well it takes up to your first Destroyer, possibly further. You can spend weeks doing those quests without really needing to look for further, outside information. They literally guide you by hand like a baby.

[Socrattes]

I have been playing 7+ years and I think as a whole the AO group is pretty good. Any group will have it's share of undesirables but by and large, I have run into mostly good people. Ganking of noobs maybe could go away to make the game friendlier but I see ganking mostly at upper levels and most people know your fair game if flagged.

As far as the new player experience goes, does it really matter? In the last 4 months I was the only toon on the island in 1 case and in the others I ran into a few experienced players starting new toons. Unless new players go there .... "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[Gimpynoob]

It all comes down to devs realizing that if a game is left unchanged the older players will accumulate an overwhelming amount of wealth, knowledge and power that the game becomes unattractive and even unplayable by new players.

The policy in AO was always to keep milking the existing playerbase with little to no concern in updating the game to make it attractive to new players. It still is (IMO) and only now that the population is quickly vanishing are they making an half hearted effort at renovating the game. I hope I am wrong, but Im pretty sure it is to little to late by now.

[Psikie]

I would just like to add my two cents worth to this thread and I will look forward to the next update.

I have been playing this game nearly 7 years and in all that time I have always enjoyed playing. As someone posted earlier I was and still am eager to log on each time to grind out a few mishes, hobnob with my org mates or just try new things and explore different places. This game has so much to offer even now with its outdated graphics. I have a froob account that about every 3 or 4 months I start up a new toon and spend a week or so developing him from a noobster to at least a level 100. I try different combinations of professions and races.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this is a very good game but it is just that a game. If some of you people get this upset over a game I wonder how you are in real life. I find this game is a way to wind down after a challenging day at work.

And by the way I wouldn't care if they got a new graphics engine, did the rebalance, or any of the other things they are talking about. I like this game just the way it is and I.m gonna keep playing.

I like the cut of your gib...

A few interesting combinations I have tried out:

1he/sneak attack Opi Agent. Very nice damage with crits is better than advy- shades at mid-high lvl, not at endgame though. Problem is no real evades and limited fp doc healing. Would be perfect IF I could get past those big IF's.

Hellfyre Magma suit bow trox doctor, really fun to play for pvp, but makes a horrible raid doc with lack of nano cost gear.

Dual mini missle/Shotgun crit Crat, self explanitory.

Tango dirk/piercing Trader which was basically a shade with faster accumulator procs.

I think the variety of AO is what draws me to it. If you can think it you can twink it. Obviously those are not standard or optimized setups in the slightest, but they were fun just for the challenge of getting them to work. Thats the attraction for me.

[Thorneee]

A few interesting combinations I have tried out:

[...]

I think the variety of AO is what draws me to it. If you can think it you can twink it. Obviously those are not standard or optimized setups in the slightest, but they were fun just for the challenge of getting them to work. Thats the attraction for me.

Yes, I think we all agree to that, but unfortunately this aspect has for the most part gone away with the expansions. Perks, CoH weapons, AI armor, LoX weapons... If you try something a bit fancy you just end-up being really gimp compared to the cookie cutter setup.

[Mastablasta]

Yeah, no. Its not like that at all.

When i first played (2007ish) starting may have been a bit rough.

For a good few years now, after tutorial you get directed towards tutorial mission agent who gets you started on chain of storyline quests that constantly provide you with cash, ships, weapons, skill books, equipment, all while sometimes providing additional, practical knowledge on how some of the mechanics and how the equipment works. If i remember well it takes up to your first Destroyer, possibly further. You can spend weeks doing those quests without really needing to look for further, outside information. They literally guide you by hand like a baby.

Still rather unprepared to do anything as it won't learn you any skills and .. destroyer you can fly pretty much out of the box afair.

[Psikie]

Yes, I think we all agree to that, but unfortunately this aspect has for the most part gone away with the expansions. Perks, CoH weapons, AI armor, LoX weapons... If you try something a bit fancy you just end-up being really gimp compared to the cookie cutter setup.

Id slightly disagree with that statement. SL/AI/LoX makes it a lot easier to try non cookie cutter setups. Now maybe you won't be able to solo LoTV but you can be more than service-able toon with some work. As long as you know your limitations any setup should be ok. Melee energy is by no means a standard setup for enfo/keep atm, but i've seen several enfos and keepers use it sucessfully. Same with shen stick traders/engi's or ranged energy soldiers.

[Gunforhire]

How do you guys know how many players are enrolled in a given game in a given year to be able to tell one has had continuous growth etc?

[Keex]

How do you guys know how many players are enrolled in a given game in a given year to be able to tell one has had continuous growth etc?

blizzard publishes subscription numbers every 3 month (shareholder and stuff). it's not that uncommon for games or companies to do that.

[Phixalicious]

blizzard publishes subscription numbers every 3 month (shareholder and stuff). it's not that uncommon for games or companies that have numbers worth mentioning to do that.

Fixed.

[Thorneee]

SL/AI/LoX makes it a lot easier to try non cookie cutter setups.

I don't know what makes you say that. SL added prof and breed specific perks, which specialise the professions even more. Ok they may be 2 or 3 paths, but it still limits the number of options. AI, more perks, even more limiting, and AI armor, now everyone will be using the same 3-4 sets of armor. Ok there are general perks available to all breeds and profs, but those are weak compared to the prof specific ones. LoX, new top weapons, meaning fewer options to choose from.

[MassDebater]

How do you guys know how many players are enrolled in a given game in a given year to be able to tell one has had continuous growth etc?

AO has 1 million daily players.

[Gorathon]

I don't know what makes you say that. SL added prof and breed specific perks, which specialise the professions even more. Ok they may be 2 or 3 paths, but it still limits the number of options.

Not to mention prof-locked symbiants.

[Darkripper]

AO has 1 million daily players.

True story.

[NoGoal]

No, I said that EVE was the only (western) mmo to have known continual growth throughout its lifetime. That WoW had continual growth untill a year ago makes that statement true. You can't dispute it by saying WoW, which is a younger game than EVE, had growth untill a year ago when it started declining.

First, WoW didn't start declining. They lost 2m subs last year and are stable ever since. Check 2011Q4 and 2012Q1 reports, they both have the same 10.2m subs.

Secondly, you seems to think that EVE didn't decline but subs did drop from 364k in May 2011 to 340k in December.

I wouldn't be surprised if both games reach their high numbers again with their new expansions and drop again later though. >hint<