Quickie Explanation of New Trader NanoSheet (Summary Open to Criticism)

[Bonghigs]

To speak toward the general direction, i agree with much of what Wrangeline as posted.

As usual, my comments below are focused on end-game pvp because that is what i do with my trader; this doesn't mean other areas are less important, just that i am not focusing on them at this moment.

my rhetorical questions for the Dev team to consider:
- How is a trader to keep multiple targets debuffed at once considering the durations? ((debuffs are our class defining feature. That, combined with the new focus of team pvp, to me means that we should be able to realistically keep 1 team - 6 players - debuffed. Of course this may not be perfect if we're fighting 6x professions with high-NR, but all things even... Unfortunately, with the durations and such as they are, i do not see this being realistically doable; more likely, we could keep around 2 targets debuffed assuming we dedicate ALL our time/resource to maintaining debuffs and nothing else (no health drains, etc).))

- How is a trader to defend themselves in a team-based environment? ((While i understand that in a team-focused pvp area there might be a doc to heal the trader, i still firmly believe traders should have some defensive mechanisms of their own as well. In the current docs, our only means of healing relies on having a target that we can land an offensive nano on but gives us little else. Historically, we were able to survive by debuffing opponents to a point where our mediocre evades proved effective, but with the new numbers in this version of the document we would not be able to survive more than a few seconds even with both debuff lines landed. What is the vision for our defense mechanisms in the future?))

[Gatester]

Traders need a static defense.

Traders need a toolset for mass pvp, single target debuffs are inneffective against zergs.

Traders do need self healing or lower health checks on the health drains as long as the numbers are balanced accordingly.

Traders need a more pvp oriented set of drains, rather than just skill drains. More along the lines of situational tools similar to borrow reflect.

[sultryvoltron]

Kintaii, personally I have to say that the current "direction" is one that I don't like or even understand. I feel certain that the numbers on our remaining debuffs wont be high enough and that the durations on them wont be long enough either, because of the general philosophy that FC seems to have for future traders. I can see the wheels turning behind FC's eyes on this one and I just know how it's going to end up. In one word, frustrating.

But forgetting all the potential problems from numbers for now, I still see problems.

1. AS is going to get 3s "cast time". If that's still the plan.
2. Trader can augment damage with health-plunder nuke (at the expense of some debuffing)
3. Trader can't self heal at all.
4. Trader have to cast plunder on an enemy and land it every time the trader wants a heal.
5. Trader have to land every single other nano there is on every single person they meet every single 15 seconds because of low durations, counters, low effect (meaning you need all of them, all the time)
6. Trader have to juggle nano-regain nanos as well in this mix I guess because of high nanopool costs.
7. Roots wont last long and some classes (like adv) still can completely resist them a lot.
8. Trader has less omni directional defense now that we don't even have the +300 AAD from corporate.

And so on and so on.

Now, when you combine all these things, we end up with a profession that I have no interest in playing at all. Every single part of the trader toolset from AS to general DD to roots to debuffs to nanopool management to defense to heals.. sounds annoying. I just can't see the fun in there >.<

On top of that I also (atm) can't see any effectiveness.

So at least for me personally, I hope we're not close to only having to deal with numbers. I still want a complete redraft when it comes to how we're going to play the trader profession. Because it really doesn't sound fun.

Bing! I hope the devs read this.

[Saetos]

Oh believe me, there's a lot more than numerical problems related to the document. Our blurring of our roles, the lowered DD with little marked improvement in our debuffing power (we debuff ACs and crit, which against most aliens especially can be complety ignored). The only things I can say for certain that I'm proud of are the 4hour CL buffs and the fact that Wrangles no longer debuff the Trader and have a more flexible method of dispersing between players of a team that a Trader isn't in.

The ability to spread debuffs to multiple people is dreadfully limited, and in fact has gotten worse. Funcom says they want to balance for team play, yet here we are with super-short duration debuffs with a myriad of cooldowns, compunded with high nanocosts - this means debuffs cannot easily be spread to mult. people in an emergency or team/raid situation.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

- How is a trader to keep multiple targets debuffed at once considering the durations? ((debuffs are our class defining feature. That, combined with the new focus of team pvp, to me means that we should be able to realistically keep 1 team - 6 players - debuffed. Of course this may not be perfect if we're fighting 6x professions with high-NR, but all things even... Unfortunately, with the durations and such as they are, i do not see this being realistically doable; more likely, we could keep around 2 targets debuffed assuming we dedicate ALL our time/resource to maintaining debuffs and nothing else (no health drains, etc).))

- How is a trader to defend themselves in a team-based environment? ((While i understand that in a team-focused pvp area there might be a doc to heal the trader, i still firmly believe traders should have some defensive mechanisms of their own as well. In the current docs, our only means of healing relies on having a target that we can land an offensive nano on but gives us little else. Historically, we were able to survive by debuffing opponents to a point where our mediocre evades proved effective, but with the new numbers in this version of the document we would not be able to survive more than a few seconds even with both debuff lines landed. What is the vision for our defense mechanisms in the future?))

This is a classic post.

situation 1.
I'm XYZ prof. How am I supposed to defend myself against 6 people. <--- LOL?

I'm a ganker prof. How am I supposed to gank 6 profs at once?



As for 2. "Mediocre evades"? Are you kidding me? If your'e in a team, you'll likely have a crat, and possible an advy or keeper. Your "mediocre" evades just made you unperkable to everyone without MR.

pff.

[Esqi]

Oh i missed that one - does this logic mean i can burst/fa everyone in the opposing team, whilst tracer runs on everyone and i can cast TMS 9000 on my team to protect them?

After all i am a tank/dd prof, i should be able to deal insane damage to everyone at same time and protect my team.

[Wrangeline]

I wish people would stop trying to suggest that traders should get AoE debuffs to make up for bad effectiveness. I also wish both players and especially FC would stop trying to balance AO around team play. As in, wanting people to be in a team or else suck.

First of all, AO does not support balanced team play. There's not enough people for this AND there are too many professions for this. Most PvP situations does not involve having two teams of 6 perfectly mesh together in a team vs team fight. This just never happens so why would anyone balance for that scenario? Being ineffective in PvP when you don't have a team to back you up is a sure fire way to have people get frustrated, since most of your time is not spent in such a fairytale scenario.

And btw, balancing professions for teaming scenarios is just a surefire way of shooting yourself in the foot. If you balance professions for solo play and add some minor team buffs then you will have team balance as well automatically. If you balance professions for team play you will have frustrated soloers (AND frustrating low numbers pvp as team-balance wont come into affect until you got a small raid on each side). You will have rock/paper/scissor encounters where you will either steamroll someone or get steamrolled and neither of these are fun. People will feel forced to team and if the right mix of professions isn't around, the other side will steamroll you. Let people team because they want to work together, not because they SHOULD or HAVE TO. That's the absolute last thing you should ever do to a low population game like AO.

Also, why would you want AoE debuffs and bad single debuffs and bad defenses when you repeatedly will find yourself fighting someone alone or WANT to fight someone alone and all you can say is "if you had 5 more friends with you and I had 5 more friends with me as well, I'd be a little bit annoying, so even though you alphaed me now, just keep that in mind please!"

If you want to AoE debuff people then make a profession that has auras. No need to turn trader into that as well. By trying to balance professions for team play and nailing the coffin shut by adding nanos that do AoE debuffing or team-debuffing, you are turning these professions into something that is not designed around fun but frustration and a sense of obligation. And before anyone says "well, I personally think it sounds fun", keep in mind how many times a PvP'ing trader is part of a balanced team (engie, sold, doc, trader, enf, shade/adv for example) versus a similar team... where you can do the team/aoe-debuffing that you were designed to do and have people protect you... and how many times the PvP'ing trader is not in such a scenario. If FC is balancing the game for scenarios that happen SO rarely then people will only get to see this intended balance so rarely. The rest of the time it wont be much fun.

If you want people to have fun all the time, then balance professions around solo play and have team buffs be minor. That way you can be effective no matter what the scenario is, when you team up it wont matter so much what professions you have (like engie being a must-have and such). There wont be rock-paper-scissor encounters ALL the time. If you are unable to be part of a perfect team, then that wont be such a big deal.

If you want people to be frustrated, go ahead and balance things for team play

I'm sure some of you (hey Obtena ) are thinking stuff like "Well, FC's is going for a different kind of balance where not every class is great for PVP by themselves and that if you want to do nothing but PvP, you should roll a different profession. If you think trader will only be useful in specific scenarios then just bring out your trader for those scenarios and use a different profession the rest of the time".

Well 2 things:

1. I would only accept that if FC gave us the ability to one-time-change our traders into a different profession and being given and free-equip gear of equal quality that we used to have on trader.

2. No MMO should be designed around having more than 1 character. "Wait a sec, let me relog to my other character" should never be the go-to-phrase in a MMO. If you can't have enough fun with your main then the game isn't finished yet and needs to be worked on some more.

[Hometown]

I wish people would stop trying to suggest that traders should get AoE debuffs to make up for bad effectiveness. I also wish both players and especially FC would stop trying to balance AO around team play. As in, wanting people to be in a team or else suck.

First of all, AO does not support balanced team play. There's not enough people for this AND there are too many professions for this. Most PvP situations does not involve having two teams of 6 perfectly mesh together in a team vs team fight. This just never happens so why would anyone balance for that scenario? Being ineffective in PvP when you don't have a team to back you up is a sure fire way to have people get frustrated, since most of your time is not spent in such a fairytale scenario.

And btw, balancing professions for teaming scenarios is just a surefire way of shooting yourself in the foot. If you balance professions for solo play and add some minor team buffs then you will have team balance as well automatically. If you balance professions for team play you will have frustrated soloers (AND frustrating low numbers pvp as team-balance wont come into affect until you got a small raid on each side). You will have rock/paper/scissor encounters where you will either steamroll someone or get steamrolled and neither of these are fun. People will feel forced to team and if the right mix of professions isn't around, the other side will steamroll you. Let people team because they want to work together, not because they SHOULD or HAVE TO. That's the absolute last thing you should ever do to a low population game like AO.

Also, why would you want AoE debuffs and bad single debuffs and bad defenses when you repeatedly will find yourself fighting someone alone or WANT to fight someone alone and all you can say is "if you had 5 more friends with you and I had 5 more friends with me as well, I'd be a little bit annoying, so even though you alphaed me now, just keep that in mind please!"

If you want people to have fun all the time, then balance professions around solo play and have team buffs be minor. That way you can be effective no matter what the scenario is, when you team up it wont matter so much what professions you have (like engie being a must-have and such). There wont be rock-paper-scissor encounters ALL the time. If you are unable to be part of a perfect team, then that wont be such a big deal.

If you want people to be frustrated, go ahead and balance things for team play

I'm sure some of you (hey Obtena ) are thinking stuff like "Well, FC's is going for a different kind of balance where not every class is great for PVP by themselves and that if you want to do nothing but PvP, you should roll a different profession. If you think trader will only be useful in specific scenarios then just bring out your trader for those scenarios and use a different profession the rest of the time".

2. No MMO should be designed around having more than 1 character. "Wait a sec, let me relog to my other character" should never be the go-to-phrase in a MMO. If you can't have enough fun with your main then the game isn't finished yet and needs to be worked on some more.

This, pretty much sums up my feelings about the * teaming based pvp of the future *.

On another note:
It has been said multiple times, to scrap the rebalance and make some MINOR adjustments to achieve balance. Pretty sure people won't mind toning down some tools of the profs they play even, instead of a total gameplay change you might NOT like.

[Syyceria]

As for 2. "Mediocre evades"? Are you kidding me? If your'e in a team, you'll likely have a crat, and possible an advy or keeper. Your "mediocre" evades just made you unperkable to everyone without MR.

Might as well remove all our defenses. If we are in a team, we'll likely have a crat, advy, keeper, engineer and doc. Our bad defense just turned into uber evades, uber reflects, uber blockers and uber heals. Anything else on top would make us clearly OP...

[Saetos]

As for 2. "Mediocre evades"? Are you kidding me? If your'e in a team, you'll likely have a crat, and possible an advy or keeper. Your "mediocre" evades just made you unperkable to everyone without MR..

Wait... so you mean the exact professions that would make everyone else unperkable... makes us unperkable?

BRILLIANT!

[Bonghigs]

This is a classic post.

situation 1.
I'm XYZ prof. How am I supposed to defend myself against 6 people. <--- LOL?

I'm a ganker prof. How am I supposed to gank 6 profs at once?



As for 2. "Mediocre evades"? Are you kidding me? If your'e in a team, you'll likely have a crat, and possible an advy or keeper. Your "mediocre" evades just made you unperkable to everyone without MR.

pff.

1) I think all profs but trader have omni-directional defenses and changing my comments to point toward omni-directional offenses is putting words in my mouth that just aren't there to try and prove your point.

AMS affects damage from all incoming targets; coon absorbs damage from all incoming targets; high (fixer, MA) evades works against all incoming targets.

As it stands now, the only defense a trader has is to drain a target, thereby lowering their AR and making the traders evades more meaningful; this does not work against all incoming targets, only those which are drained. Further, with 10 second duration it is highly unlikely that we will be able to keep more than 2-3 people drained at once in pvp. We do have a heal (and it's for a reasonable enough amount in the new docs), but this requires us to land an offensive nano on a target making it very unreliable since we have so many other things to cast to be effective (yes i know that's prioritization and a good problem to have in some ways, but it's still a problem).

So, yes, i would like some omni-directional defense and to fit that in to the traders playstyle would most likely have to happen as AoE drains... i don't like it, but it's the only option that even reasonably fits into the professions description.


2) Yes mediocre evades. In current gear without the AAD drains we are losing, i have about 3200 defensive rating in an end-game setup. This is immediately less than many profs AR and still perkable via AI/low-checking perks for the other professions. Thus, as discussed above, our evades are only effective in combination with our drains.

Oh i missed that one - does this logic mean i can burst/fa everyone in the opposing team, whilst tracer runs on everyone and i can cast TMS 9000 on my team to protect them?

After all i am a tank/dd prof, i should be able to deal insane damage to everyone at same time and protect my team.

Where did I say anything about doing damage to all opponents at once? Additionally, your tank close does tank all opponents (read: omni-directional defense) at once as your AMS works against all incoming damage, not just against those targets you've spent time landing an offensive nano against. See the difference?

[Larafina]

"Yes mediocre evades. In current gear without the AAD drains we are losing, i have about 3200 defensive rating in an end-game setup"

You should never give numbers without explaining where they come from. 3,2k is quite high i can barely get that high on my fex trader in max def setup, and thats fex and we couldnt cast our nanos in that setup (after rebalancing). and getting 11 sec as with that much def requires giving up **** loads of nanoskills and so on ... just giving such numbers tends to give people wrong impressions on how much def traders actually have.

[Bonghigs]

"Yes mediocre evades. In current gear without the AAD drains we are losing, i have about 3200 defensive rating in an end-game setup"

You should never give numbers without explaining where they come from. 3,2k is quite high i can barely get that high on my fex trader in max def setup, and thats fex and we couldnt cast our nanos in that setup (after rebalancing). and getting 11 sec as with that much def requires giving up **** loads of nanoskills and so on ... just giving such numbers tends to give people wrong impressions on how much def traders actually have.

Fair enough. This build is dedicated to evades/AAD first and AR when possible. All HUD/UTIL items (besides an NCU) are defensive based, including a defensive HUD instead of a scope. Armor is CSS for evades/AR except for a couple spots where other armor adds better evades/AAD. Shoulders are iGoC to max AAD. Essentially, my setup has AAD boosted as high as possible in almost every single spot with little exception.

You do have a very good point, though. My trader is several years old and is basically "perfect" (for the setup i am going for). He has every item he wants, period. Most traders will not have anywhere near the defensive rating that my trader does and thus i agree that throwing my numbers out there are a bit misleading and serve to feed the trolls ("zomg he has 3200") more than i had inteded.

My hope is that while the trolls in this thread don't know better, that FC does know better

[McKnuckleSamwich]

1) I think all profs but trader have omni-directional defenses and changing my comments to point toward omni-directional offenses is putting words in my mouth that just aren't there to try and prove your point.

AMS affects damage from all incoming targets; coon absorbs damage from all incoming targets; high (fixer, MA) evades works against all incoming targets.

As it stands now, the only defense a trader has is to drain a target, thereby lowering their AR and making the traders evades more meaningful; this does not work against all incoming targets, only those which are drained. Further, with 10 second duration it is highly unlikely that we will be able to keep more than 2-3 people drained at once in pvp. We do have a heal (and it's for a reasonable enough amount in the new docs), but this requires us to land an offensive nano on a target making it very unreliable since we have so many other things to cast to be effective (yes i know that's prioritization and a good problem to have in some ways, but it's still a problem).

So, yes, i would like some omni-directional defense and to fit that in to the traders playstyle would most likely have to happen as AoE drains... i don't like it, but it's the only option that even reasonably fits into the professions description.

To be fair, I will accept your argument that you can want omnidirectional defences, however, I think your reasoning is highly flawed.

Trader is not the only prof NOT to have omni-directional defences.

Consider: engies have no evades, only special blockers. This means no defence vs perk damage, normals (hello MA's), NT's.

Doctors have no defence except heals and HP. This is certainly not omn-directional. if healing is slowed down by stuns, init debuffs, or nano cast breakage, docs are toast.

advies, shades, MA's, fixers defences are not omni-directional either. Sure, our evades are supposed to keep us "safe" but this is lies. As an MA, if I don't setup offensively, there's no chance to help make a kill in pvp - which leaves us wide open to attacks - and, similarly, with limber up around 3200 evade rating. Regardless of setup, however, how do evades help against Specials like Aimed shot, Sneak attack or NT nukes? these are not omni-directional, they help vs only physical attacks that check evades - which, in all honestly constitute only a VERY small fraction of attacks in real pvp conditions. The vast majority of killing hits in PVP are from SA, AS, dimach and nukes - and this isn't because of evades, it's because distance to opponent is too far, the root length (if one lands) is too short to get any physical attacks or perk chains off, and you cannot shoot while running (kiting).

I would argue that the only classes with true omni-directional defences is enforcer and NT. Enforcer because all damage must filter through abosrbs, and, NT's because NS2 blocks all damage, and DtN soaks up all kinds as well.

Your argument has some validity, though. I agree that traders can only effectively defend against one or two attackers at once, using their toolset, BUT, you have neglected to mention other parts of your toolset which are truly omni-directional, despite your claims. For example, there are the LE AAD drains, which can add I think 350 AAD. A trader with an extra 350 AAD on top of 3200 evade rating certainly isn't somethign to shake a stick at.

And what about your own nanobot guard? If that is not omni-directional, what is?

You ask for omnidirectional defences, yet, you do not consider what you have, you also do not consider that what you claim may be based on incorrect conclusions. Your basis of your argument, therefore is flawed.

As a final point to this argument rebuttal, I want to mention that a traders offensive defense, that of draining an opponent to hinder his/her offense, is far superior to EVERY other class in terms of true hindrance. Against most classes, and most setups, one drain is more than enough to ellicit a near complete shutdown of offensive productivity.

How many classes can kill you with one drain running?

2) Yes mediocre evades. In current gear without the AAD drains we are losing, i have about 3200 defensive rating in an end-game setup. This is immediately less than many profs AR and still perkable via AI/low-checking perks for the other professions. Thus, as discussed above, our evades are only effective in combination with our drains.



Where did I say anything about doing damage to all opponents at once? Additionally, your tank close does tank all opponents (read: omni-directional defense) at once as your AMS works against all incoming damage, not just against those targets you've spent time landing an offensive nano against. See the difference?

Point taken, and I agree.

[sultryvoltron]

You misunderstand what he means by omni-directional.

He means Drains only work as a defense against 1 target at a time (with a 15s duration). Evades on the other hand work against every target attacking you. Same with heals. Etc. Granted, not all defenses are effective against every type of offense, but they are useful against everyone that can be stopped by them all at once.

[Wrangeline]

You said engies don't have omni directional defense when "all they have" is special blockers and then went on to say that enfs had the best omni directional defense because they have absorbs. Engie have absorbs too you know. Coon anyone? Oh and they have reflects too.

"For example, there are the LE AAD drains, which can add I think 350 AAD. A trader with an extra 350 AAD on top of 3200 evade rating certainly isn't somethign to shake a stick at"

You do know that FC is completely REMOVING this nanoline from the game right? (and for the record, it's +300, not 350). I also love how you make a big deal about how fixers and such (that are virtually unkillable for a lot of professions because they evade everything except AS and nukes) don't really have omni directional defense with their 207.000 defense and then say that +300 AAD is "nothing to shake a stick at".

If you don't think omni directional defense includes what fixers and soldiers have for example, then your criteria for omni directional defense is quite simply wrong. Omni directional defense does not simply mean "blocks/reduces all incoming damage no matter what the source is".

"And what about your own nanobot guard? If that is not omni-directional, what is?"

I need you to log in an endgame trader and then use that nano in PvP before you use it as an example of anything. It is true that it works in an omni directional way but the overall point of this discussion is obviously that we don't have good and effective omni directional defense relative to other professions, not that we don't have any at all. I know the person you quoted said we don't have omni directional defense but this is a relative statement, not a technical one. Technically speaking, anyone with 1 point of evade/aad has omni directional defense but in relative terms, it's no omni directional defense at all.

"How many classes can kill you with one drain running?"

After rebalance? Everyone. With 2 drains? Probably still everyone. What's your point?

Oh.. and you actually said that advies defense is not omni directional. I know now that you don't know what omni directional defense means (even though you say enf is awesome for having absorb but advies are not, even though advies have evade-perkline and big heals and root resistance as well.) so I'm not going to discuss this in detail.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I admit engies do have more omni-directional defences than what I listed. But I don't consider coon to be effective enough to really be listed as a primary defense.

It's not like engies are asked to team because they have coon, and, it's not like advies claim they can tank all of RK 2 because they have a coon.

Yes, coon is omni-directional, but, it's quite limited.

If you're saying that NBG is LESS useful than coon and have reasonable grounds for saying that, I'll retract my statement, but, otherwise, I still think that traders lack of omni-directional defences are sufficient when you take into account their capability to utterly destroy every other profession's offensive capability.

That said, I was taking into consideration a nano which is being removed. So, in this case I agree that traders could use another kind of defensive mechanism.

I make no suggestion to that, and I don't pretend to know what would be balanced or fair.

[Wrangeline]

I admit engies do have more omni-directional defences than what I listed. But I don't consider coon to be effective enough to really be listed as a primary defense.

It's not like engies are asked to team because they have coon, and, it's not like advies claim they can tank all of RK 2 because they have a coon.

Yes, coon is omni-directional, but, it's quite limited.

On the topic of omni directional defenses, you are the one who said:

"Trader is not the only prof NOT to have omni-directional defences. Consider: engies have no evades, only special blockers. This means no defence vs perk damage, normals (hello MA's), NT's. I would argue that the only classes with true omni-directional defences is enforcer and NT. Enforcer because all damage must filter through abosrbs.."

If you are referring to the 1370 layer-nano that enfs can cast on themselves (because engies got coon too) then that's fair enough but those layers are absolutely nothing compared to things like huge evades like fixers have or the combination of omni directional defenses that advies have or things like AMS for soldiers and so on and so on. Or even blockers. Blockers are better omni directional defense than 1370 absorb is. (we are talking pvp here)

And yes, NBG is waaaay worse than coon. And by worse I mean.. holy woah worse
Not only does it only partially absorb incoming damage (some damage per hit makes it through), it absorbs way less total damage than coon by a huuuge margin and NBG also lasts only 15 sec and leaves the trader with 0 nanopool for a long time afterwards which for a trader is death. So it's rarely used.

"I still think that traders lack of omni-directional defences are sufficient when you take into account their capability to utterly destroy every other profession's offensive capability."

^
I agree but that's today. We have bad omni directional defense but good tools to make up for that. But consider the thread you are in now. We're supposed to discuss the nano documents and in those we lose that +300 aad nano and our drains are completely destroyed to the point of hardly being worth casting any more. Yet our omni directional defense is becoming even worse as well. So, what is good about a trader in PvP when you take this into consideration? No omni directional defense AND crappy tools? We wont be destroying anyones offensive capabilities after rebalance.

[Bonghigs]

Agree with Wrangeline and Sultry.

With regards to NanoBot defense, the issue is that it really does not take much damage at all. Firstly, only a % of damage is taken back (depending on breed) and that damage goes against nanopool (which traders do not have an abundance of like NT). Once our nanopool is (relatively quickly) depleted, the defensive effect of NBD is gone. Even if we do get the full effect of NBD, it's still only 15seconds. Once NBD is done, we get a serious nanodrain (more drain than the old version of GTH iirc) that lasts for a minute making us nearly useless except for a walking o-button.

I don't mean to be all doom-and-gloom, NBD has useful moments and i have used it many times. BUT, a viable defense it is far from.

[Colawrenn]

BRILLIANT!

Props for linking to this ad!

I really hope FC are reading this thread