Who needs go up and who down survey ?

[Mountaingoat]

Gah, you engi sympathizers are whiny buggers:

Defense skills: Nano resist 0 %


THATS DVP. Sure, if you've got 110% blind resist, great, but most peeps don't.

Your arguments are retarded. DVP deosn't break on dmg shield or reflect dmg, it doesn't break when the person attacks you. In FACT, it often doesn't break on low damage hits. I've seen it go the duration of the debuff, not in PVP mind you, but I can garauntee that the mobs are being hit hella hard during that 22 seconds.

Now, just in my personal experience, I've seen engineers pop a DVP and sit down for a bit, because nobody in vicinity can hit them during that time.

Oh, and btw, NSD is offensive, DVP is defensive. If you can't switch after a fight, you're retarded, soz to say.

Ah Mcknuckle, yet another misinformed person about DVP. I've explained all this before, and I'm sure I'll have to explain again.

To start off with, the DVP check is indeed 100%. The 0% is just the base aura that sits on the engi, means nothing really. http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=154715 Click that, then scroll on down to "On Use" and click that link. You'll see http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=154701 Notice the 100% check? That's the hostile part.

Now once again if you refer to that second link, take a look at the break on attack chance, the break on debuff chance, and the break on nano chance. They are all 100%. And yes, it does break on dmg shields and reflect damage. I can demonstrate this in a fraps if you like.

The fact that you've seen it not break is actually true however, and it is a bug. When too many things/people are hitting whatever target DVP is on it bugs and stays on. This bug is not unique to DVP however. Calms and the MP mez pet experience the same thing. Ever seen a stuck calm? It's because too many people hit the calm at the same time. The mez pet really perma stuns mobs (until a higher stacking "calm/stun" lands) which makes inferno hards f/e ridiculously easy. Now before you get all bent out of shape about engineers exploiting this bug, it can IN NO WAY be made to occur solo, on my eng at least (I've tried). I can very occasionally and mostly by accident get the mez pet to bug it's mez solo when I use SS+me swinging+Rihwen hitting. When I dual log my crat and MP f/e though, the mez pet perma bugs it's mez and the same happens when I dual log with my eng with DVP. I can again demonstrate this in a fraps if you like.

What sort of equivalent def ratings do you think engineers are sporting when they blind someone with DVP? If I maxed evades on my engi and added all my aad from equip I'd have about 1800-1900 static def rating without DVP. So that means with DVP I'd be 3k-3.1k. Is your def rating higher than that on your MA? Do you get hit? How many professions do you think can perk 3.1k def ratings at tl7? Doing an evade setup on an eng based around DVP would be pointless because the first time your hit you'd lose 1/3 of your def rating, and you'd have given up a ton of hp gear.

Sure we can switch after fight. Still doesn't mean auras/procs aren't bouncing our ncu around and we could missclick something. But frankly, I'd rather just use NSD all the time anyway versus trying to spam DVP which will last maybe a second per cast on fighting targets in the first place. Saves me the trouble of accidentally turning off important buffs while I'm at it.

[crattey]

It might actually be a visible bug. Quite often on my crat, the visible stun aura remains on player or mob when it breaks prematurely, same goes for roots and snares.

[Mountaingoat]

It might actually be a visible bug. Quite often on my crat, the visible stun aura remains on player or mob when it breaks prematurely, same goes for roots and snares.

Yeah I've seen the visual roots/snares/stuns. But DVP, calms, and the mez pet definitely aren't visual when they bug like this.

[howlin]

It might actually be a visible bug. Quite often on my crat, the visible stun aura remains on player or mob when it breaks prematurely, same goes for roots and snares.

Its not, it stays in mobs NCU if you have the NCU window up, still happens only when lots of ppl attack the mob at same time like goats said.

Edit: loved the 0% NR check thou, not the first time i heard that one

[Adva]

The truth about DVP, not what some misinformed person thinks

Win

[McKnuckleSamwich]

To start off with, the DVP check is indeed 100%. The 0% is just the base aura that sits on the engi, means nothing really. http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=154715 Click that, then scroll on down to "On Use" and click that link. You'll see http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=154701 Notice the 100% check? That's the hostile part.

If I maxed evades on my engi and added all my aad from equip I'd have about 1800-1900 static def rating without DVP. So that means with DVP I'd be 3k-3.1k. Is your def rating higher than that on your MA? Do you get hit? How many professions do you think can perk 3.1k def ratings at tl7?

Good to know, thanks for that, i always assumed it was a 0% check. :P


If you maxed evades on your engi, you'd have 1800-1900+ 900-1K AAD =2800ish +(-1210AAO)=4kish evades.

4Kish evades is easily enough to confound most peeps running around BS, trust me.

Is it more than my MA? yes/no maybe, depends, I often forget to perk limber. I agree though, that it doesn't last long. But, timing is the counter to short durations.

For example: if you spot a MA running up to you, most engies hit tab, /macro kill /pet attack, BUT, that MA will perk you hard and fast, at least thats what I do.

So, if you get a DVP up before I get there, I highly doubt I'll be landing more than 1-2 of them on you. Sure, it takes time to get used to, but, I've seen it work, so I can't discount it.

Also, for the record, there are a lot less people with 110% blind resist around than you think.

Win

dude, your argument is like a wet noodle.

[Adva]

I didn't need to post anything seeing as Mountaingoat hit the nail on the head. Sorry it didn't turn out your assumptions about DVP were correct. But what could I expect from somebody who obviously has never played a TL7 engi yet seems to think they know more about them than those that have and/or still do.

By the way, that scenario you posted, lol.

[Shrubberyman]

Sure, if you've got 110% blind resist, great, but most peeps don't.

Yea, ofc, the vast majority of PvPers have barely 60%, that nearly doesn't count.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I didn't need to post anything seeing as Mountaingoat hit the nail on the head. Sorry it didn't turn out your assumptions about DVP were correct. But what could I expect from somebody who obviously has never played a TL7 engi yet seems to think they know more about them than those that have and/or still do.

By the way, that scenario you posted, lol.

I didn't make any assumptions about DVP, I misread the check, but was easy to do becuase it's a 0% check on pets, not the hostile one, and I acknowledged that I didn't know that.


sorry, but if you'd try something out before saying it aint possible would result in more productive interpretation of the scenario. If you haven't figured out that it's possible, and you make bogus assumptions undermining the efforts for people who are actually concerned with the welfare of the game and bettering the understudies so that they may become better in PVP, utilizing their toolset, screw off.

Your weak patronizing remarks only make you look dumb. They certainly don't show that you've tested anything, or that you've actually attempted anything other than the cookie cutter setup.

If you got something else, bring it on, otherwise, go work on your evades and figure out your technique so that evades matter as a result of using DVP. If you still can't figure it out, turn on pet follow and turn off auto attack. If that still doesn't work, and you're still convinced it's not working, test it where there isn't a third person attacking your target. If that doesn't work, I'll admit DVP is broken and it could use a revamp on possible reasons for breaking.

But, until then, stfu and don't troll me unless you got something good to challenge me with.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Yea, ofc, the vast majority of PvPers have barely 60%, that nearly doesn't count.

Vast majority?

Like all those fixers/solds who use tuners?

I'd say "some" And 60% isn't that bad. If it doesn't land, it's not like your entire defensive toolset is shot, to be perfectly fair, if it was landing regularly, and didn't break, it would be OP'd. So, to base your defences off it are risky, at best, but, with AO most things are "risky" in terms of statistics.... in fact, only the things that aren't risky are the OP'd things. So, I don't think it's that big of a loss to attempt it.

If you've got a bunch of melee peeps attacking you, or, other pets, a -1200 AAO debuff could Seriously enhance your survivability... like carlo would go down to what? 2200-1200 = 1000 AR... thats not too bad. riwhen would probably have 800 AR, and dunno bout the others.

and, those pets don't have 60-110% blind resist either... I know that for fact.

[Hectikx]

... like carlo would go down to what? 4400-1200 = 3200 AR... thats not too bad..

Carlo with 4400 AR lol....more like 2250. What do you do just make this stuff up?

[Galaad]

Up:
1. MP
2. MA
3. Keeper

Down:
1. Adv
2. Doc
3. Crat

Down:

1. Klod

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Carlo with 4400 AR lol....more like 2250. What do you do just make this stuff up?

editted relevant post :P

[Ellarisa]

you do realize that mountaingoat's numbers were already including aad right?

yes, it's that pathetic

Greetings,



Ellarisa

[McKnuckleSamwich]

you do realize that mountaingoat's numbers were already including aad right?

yes, it's that pathetic

Greetings,



Ellarisa

O_o

1900 Defence Including AAD? I don't believe it.

I know evades are dark blue, and I also know that engies don't have a lot of support for evades, asside from the all powerful control symbs...

But come on, lemme see. I'll throw together some numbers here:
Xan def board: 100 AAD
alpha Rarm: 108 AAD
Alpha L arm: 180 AAD
Alpha feet: 72 AAD
SE hat: 25 AAD
Green Hud: 50
Vision hud: 50
Defense/first aid thingy Thing: 50
Rusty's Ring of Bolts: 30 AAD
OFAB Engineer Protective Gear: 50 AAD
QL 150 transfer tower: 44 AAD

Ok, I don't know which armour engi uses, but I'd assume CC for 6 parts, for an extra 90 AAD, if CSS, then more evades anyway...

But thats a total of: 845 AAD... so, you're talking funny, because if you max evades you're goign to have more than 1150, especially when you include all symb contributions, armour and buffs (how often can you not find a MA, Fixer, NT or MP or sold for a flimsy 50+ evade buff)

I would assume a Engi can get 1500 evades without too many sacrifices, add 850 AAD on top and you're at 2350 static evades.

2350+(-1210 AAO)=3560 evades, easily enough to ward off everyone but super high AR profs.

I'm definitly not goign to be perking anyone with 3500 evades on my MA. thats for sure.

Sure, I was off by about 500, but, it's still unperkable.

[crattey]

O_o

1900 Defence Including AAD? I don't believe it.

I know evades are dark blue, and I also know that engies don't have a lot of support for evades, asside from the all powerful control symbs...

But come on, lemme see. I'll throw together some numbers here:
Xan def board: 100 AAD
alpha Rarm: 108 AAD
Alpha L arm: 180 AAD
Alpha feet: 72 AAD
SE hat: 25 AAD
Green Hud: 50
Vision hud: 50
Defense/first aid thingy Thing: 50
Rusty's Ring of Bolts: 30 AAD
OFAB Engineer Protective Gear: 50 AAD
QL 150 transfer tower: 44 AAD

Ok, I don't know which armour engi uses, but I'd assume CC for 6 parts, for an extra 90 AAD, if CSS, then more evades anyway...

But thats a total of: 845 AAD... so, you're talking funny, because if you max evades you're goign to have more than 1150, especially when you include all symb contributions, armour and buffs (how often can you not find a MA, Fixer, NT or MP or sold for a flimsy 50+ evade buff)

I would assume a Engi can get 1500 evades without too many sacrifices, add 850 AAD on top and you're at 2350 static evades.

2350+(-1210 AAO)=3560 evades, easily enough to ward off everyone but super high AR profs.

I'm definitly not goign to be perking anyone with 3500 evades on my MA. thats for sure.

Sure, I was off by about 500, but, it's still unperkable.

You might want to use a skill emu. Engis have crap base evades. A solitus engineer has:

975 dodge
815 evade
1135 duck

why is it that sometimes, you are convinced that your rough guesses outweigh years or experience and firsthand knowledge?

Oh, and also:

Good to know, thanks for that, i always assumed it was a 0% check. :P

I didn't make any assumptions about DVP

Self owned

[howlin]

But come on, lemme see. I'll throw together some numbers here:

Soooo, what else is new in this thread?

[Moonbolt]

ok since ur arguing engineer evades / add... engies have the possiblity to do this setup.
i admitedly know very little about engineers so i didnt even try to set out perks etc but this setup is very doable by any engineer.

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=163821

base evades of engineers.

975 dodge
815 evade
1135 duck

975+704+810= 2489 dodge
815+624+810= 2249 evade
1135+624+810= 2569 duck

add the blind to all 3 rolls -1210 AAO on area tho it wont land on everyone..

Base AR for engies with pistol is 1135
EP 120
setup pistol skill 936
AAO 380

1135+120+936+380= 2571 Attack Rating

[crattey]

Not a very realistic setup.

Like said before, DVP doesn't stick and is easily countered through 110% blind resist from just two HUD items. If it landed reliably and could stick on people, it might be an option to attain some degree of unperkability.

But as is, focusing on evade is pointless for an engineer, as you can' realistically keep the 1210 advantage.

And you're giving up, what, 7k HP in that setup? (Very rough estimate) Likely not a very good idea, since you'll still get perked by high AR profs, profs with <100% perk checks and MR users in that setup, even if you'd manage to land DVP.

Besides, anyone duelling an engi would just lol, put in the HUDs and wtfrape the engi.

[Brofist]

What in the hell happened to this thread.

And I still stand by my previous statement.