Enfs and Attack rating

[Raggy]

Dood, so true. Even on my super OP wtfroflpwn engineer with 6k AR pets and coonblockers, I am seriously depantsed after fighting a truly worthy opponent. It's really depressing to struggle with certain other OP profs for minutes long fights and finally scratch out a victory, then turn the corner and some guy smokes me when I have no perks up... then I get a tell "lol gimp". Or even after a loss. Decon doesn't reset the 5 minute timer on my defensive perks =/

I would really love my bio shielding perks to be up every time I turn the corner, or at least have some other device that could serve as such during the cooldown period.

This.

If I come across a semi-decent enforcer in BS I WILL have to use Bio Rejuvination/Coon. This is irregardless of the enfo's level. I have had times where it has been a damn close fight between me and a 215 Enfo, this isn't due to my lack of gear or w/e as I am pretty well geared. It's due to the fact every hit lands and every perks lands and my blockers only stop one, maybe 2 of the many attacks an Enforcer can use.

The Enforcer toolset is definately on par with Advies in terms of survivability and 'Lol you did no dmg to me', just as Gate said.

[Weltall]

dunno wth enfs are complaining about their regular hits, their regs hit me for like 1.1-1.2k or something, that's not bad at all.

[agentwolve]

This thread just plants a visual representation of a fight between Jimmy and Timmy, into my head.

[Moonbolt]

The Enforcer toolset is definately on par with Advies in terms of survivability and 'Lol you did no dmg to me', just as Gate said.

u gotta be kidding me when enfs survivability is on par with advs.. L2P

[Moonbolt]

dunno wth enfs are complaining about their regular hits, their regs hit me for like 1.1-1.2k or something, that's not bad at all.

in PvM the he does 1800-1900 with challanger up.
the 1hb does 2100ish.
half that for pvp.
add the reduction from RRFE and inert reflects and u get hit for about 500-800 each hit.

[Weltall]

Solds aren't always around and I hate to use grafts in bs since if you get ubt'd/drained there's no way to use virus scanners

[Notcrattey]

u gotta be kidding me when enfs survivability is on par with advs.. L2P

Coming from enfs who their prof isn't dangerous.

[Moonbolt]

if u read my posts again u will find several places that i am saying that enfs are angerous. but not OP as alot of people claim.
enforcers have their own issues in pvp just as any classes do..
they are good off yes..
we arnt insta splatted by an alpha... true except for shade alpha
we can kill most professions quite well.
but as i have said earlier.... enforcers when everything is on cooldown is very low on DD and can easy be taken down in the time before the alpha recharges.
most well geared players except bow MPs has a chance to live thru the enforcer alpha...
Ask Number0007 that lives thru my alpha about 80% of the times and rips me apart before it has recharged. (hes an agent btw - 1 of the easiest classes for enfs to alpha]
its all about skill, luck and gear to survive the enf alpha.

enfs are intimidating - yes.
they can kill any profession - yes (im realy having truoble with endgame fixers tho and soldiers and 1he advs)
but the enforcers arnt OP.
they arnt the top of the food chain.
they are slightly above average in performance in pvp.
and for people to keep screaming for nerfs to enfs is in my opinion either undergeared, underskilled or just plain and simple players that has a very low understanding of how the enforcer profession works.

as i have tried to explain several times over. if we can alpha a player we win.
if we cant alpha a player we loose.
the thing that makes enfs LOOK OVERPOWERD is the way we kill players.
a massive alpha that if it kills u does so in mere seconds.
if u live thru that initial alpha the enforcer is pretty darn harmless for another minute.
and more or less any profession can eat thru 60k health (absorbs and healing included in that estimate in 60 seconds.
the only prof that realy has an issue with dmging enfs is docs cause they cant Malp or DoT us.

[Raggy]

u gotta be kidding me when enfs survivability is on par with advs.. L2P

Maybe it is you that needs to L2P


Rage out of all CC except NT Roots.
Rage = RS Cap
Rage = HUGE NR boost.
Mongo = Huge HoT
SL Ess for when the going gets tough. (Regardless of the RS debuff)
Coon
Layers
Bio Rejuv
Great HD
Good AAD

Ofc, Enfs have such a hard time surviving...

Wake the hell up.

[howlin]

Well the situation with enfos atm is almost same as with advys.
Something has to go, be it massive heals, crazy AAD, highest NR in game, CC immunity or high AR.
Pick 2 and just remove them.

[Gatester]

dunno wth enfs are complaining about their regular hits, their regs hit me for like 1.1-1.2k or something, that's not bad at all.

You have to compare to other professions and what they have, and then keep in mind that regular hits+FA are not enough to kill any well-geared player even if their toolset is in recharge.

Low crit chance, low crit damage weapons.
Regular hits are the lowest of melee professions.
Brawl damage is consistantly low.
SA has 40 second recharge.

Other professions DPM comes from:
High damage nukes
Pets+their own damage
DoTs+Malp (when they can actually cast it)
AS
Full Auto
Burst
High Crit chance
Procs
High regular hits

The only real difference from PVM Damage and PVP damage is that some tools are PVP only, nanos can land more frequently than perks, and that AS can be spammed. Also, I suppose you would reduce DPM from perks as they have to be saved until appropriate.

What I would like is damage similar to MA regular hits, but no massive crits or crit chance and take away most of the perk damage. The difference would be significantly more AR for enforcers to land those high damage hits, but MA's are still far more damage thanks to their criticals. We would not necessarily have to force only one manner of offense on enforcers either, as a toned down level in their current strength should also be balanced.

u gotta be kidding me when enfs survivability is on par with advs.. L2P

Do not confuse defense with survival. I thought I was thorough enough in my example but just keep in mind that the differences would be active fighting and flight. Defense is how well an enforcer "survives" while attempting to stay in combat with their opponent. Survival is how effectively an enforcer can escape.

[Hellrule]

snip*

Do not confuse defense with survival. I thought I was thorough enough in my example but just keep in mind that the differences would be active fighting and flight. Defense is how well an enforcer "survives" while attempting to stay in combat with their opponent. Survival is how effectively an enforcer can escape.

Thats relative though, because if for example you have 0 defence and 100% chance survival, its the same as having 100% defensive because you simply won't die. Your trying to blur the line but it's the same thing. Yes these aren't the numbers with enforcers but just an example

[Gatester]

Thats relative though, because if for example you have 0 defence and 100% chance survival, its the same as having 100% defensive because you simply won't die. Your trying to blur the line but it's the same thing. Yes these aren't the numbers with enforcers but just an example

You are referring to something that is impossible which makes a counter-point irrelevant. To argue the point anyways, 0% defense and 100% survival would mean what? That you could neither enter an opponents range of offense or escape from within an opponents range of offense because you would die instantly. Consider a similar comparison with 100% defense and 0% survival. You can never die as long as your defenses are active, but you have no way of avoiding conflict with your opponent. If your defenses drop at all and you still have 0% survival, then unless your offensive ability can defeat your opponent, you will die.

Survival takes effect in two parts, the length of time your defenses can keep you alive within an opponents range and the ease at which you can remove yourself from an opponents offenses.

Consider a range of profession survivals in time, and then perhaps you can understand the difference. These time ranges will be purely examples and not literal levels as they are highly situational. A doctor against one opponent can survive indefinately in most situations, but against three opponents they might survive 5 seconds. An enforcer against one opponent can last 100 seconds, and an enforcer against three opponents will last 35 seconds.

This "alpha resistance" or difficulty to kill applies to most situations and quickly ties into the enforcers supplemental ability to avoid being restrained or how fast they can get out of combat. If a doctor needs 30 seconds to avoid combat, then they will never survive those three opponents, but if the enforcer only needs 15 seconds to avoid combat, then even against three opponents they will survive. When the enforcer is not making use of his ability to avoid conflict, however, his defenses can only maintain his survival for a limited period of time compared to other professions, and his survival has no benefit to defense when trying to actively kill an opponent. This means an enforcer is more likely to die in combat than most professions but more likely to successfully flee than most professions.

[Hellrule]

Not necessarily, like a meep or evasive maneuver. 0 defense against aimed shot / sneak attack / dimach, yet some professions will never die unless zerged. 0 defence against it, 100% survivability.

[Gatester]

Not necessarily, like a meep or evasive maneuver. 0 defense against aimed shot / sneak attack / dimach, yet some professions will never die unless zerged. 0 defence against it, 100% survivability.

0% defence is 1 max health, 0 evades, 0 aad, no reflects, no absorbs, no AC's and no DTN. The defense against AS, SA, Dimach is spec blockers, max health, reflects, absorbs, AC's (for SA/Dimach), and DTN. If you had 0% defense then even my level 1 would be able to kill your 220 fixer based upon micro-seconds between my burst/fling firing and your meep activating.

As I said, you are referring to something impossible, nothing has 0% defenses.

[Hellrule]

Teach me how to evade an Aimedshot or Sneak attack please.

[Provision]

They need to nerf the defense check out the perks. I pvp'd against a sol breed enfo on my shade today. In a full defense mind-set he was able to perk through DoF and Limber....this is lame.

[Koizumi]

They need to nerf the defense check out the perks. I pvp'd against a sol breed enfo on my shade today. In a full defense mind-set he was able to perk through DoF and Limber....this is lame.

I ditto this, but i dont think this itself would be enough.
An NR/def nerf would be at least minimum to add.

[Obtena]

They need to nerf the defense check out the perks. I pvp'd against a sol breed enfo on my shade today. In a full defense mind-set he was able to perk through DoF and Limber....this is lame.

Obviously that speaks more to the state of your shade than it does enfos in general.

[Weltall]

Obviously that speaks more to the state of your shade than it does enfos in general.

Rofl. Okies, lemme know how to evade 50% and 0% checking perks kk?