Blade of Khione's Will

[Cheree]

And you expect me to always run around with 750ncu worth of buffs including rrfe?

I'm just referring to keeper vs agent. What you seem to get out of the vid is that keepers need more damage to alpha an agent in CH recharge -alone-. Sure, I'm fine with that, and that's actually how it is when I'm buffed differently. What I'm not fine with is that I have to wait 20 aimshots before the keeper is in any kind of danger while I'm in danger right from the start. In mass pvp, that's pretty much what matters. An agent is more vulnerable than a keeper. The keeper alpha may not kill me alone, but add an extra attacker and it does the job. You can't say the same for a keeper who's zerged. The agent alpha on an unperkable keeper consists of one aimshot that doesn't always cap 30% (as you can see from the vid, 4 aimshots until the big heal perk.. gawd).

The extra attacker in mass pvp has a better chance at killing an agent who's at 25%hp after a failed alpha from a keeper than killing a keeper who's at 70% hp after a failed 'alpha' from an agent.

I only bring all this up to say that your evades/aad can get really high, too high imo. And if on top of that you got more damage, then it will get even more frustrating for me vs unperkable keepers. I will not support more damage for keepers if it means they get two tries to alpha me while I'm reduced to an aimshot once every 11s in hopes you stick around for the 21st. While you're trying to figure out ways to get more damage, I'd be happy with getting my old damage back.

(I checked the vid, seems like it's 11aimshots then he died. Still too many. And still too boring on the offensive front for the agent.)

[Xaun]

And you expect me to always run around with 750ncu worth of buffs including rrfe?

I'm just referring to keeper vs agent. What you seem to get out of the vid is that keepers need more damage to alpha an agent in CH recharge -alone-. Sure, I'm fine with that, and that's actually how it is when I'm buffed differently. What I'm not fine with is that I have to wait 20 aimshots before the keeper is in any kind of danger while I'm in danger right from the start. In mass pvp, that's pretty much what matters. An agent is more vulnerable than a keeper. The keeper alpha may not kill me alone, but add an extra attacker and it does the job. You can't say the same for a keeper who's zerged. The agent alpha on an unperkable keeper consists of one aimshot that doesn't always cap 30% (as you can see from the vid, 4 aimshots until the big heal perk.. gawd).

The extra attacker in mass pvp has a better chance at killing an agent who's at 25%hp after a failed alpha from a keeper than killing a keeper who's at 70% hp after a failed 'alpha' from an agent.

I only bring all this up to say that your evades/aad can get really high, too high imo. And if on top of that you got more damage, then it will get even more frustrating for me vs unperkable keepers. I will not support more damage for keepers if it means they get two tries to alpha me while I'm reduced to an aimshot once every 11s in hopes you stick around for the 21st. While you're trying to figure out ways to get more damage, I'd be happy with getting my old damage back.

(I checked the vid, seems like it's 11aimshots then he died. Still too many. And still too boring on the offensive front for the agent.)

Your right nerf Atrox'es.. Oh wait you were talking about a Keeper.. nevermind.. I still don't agree with your point relating to Keepers.

You believe you should kill anything and everything right away without contest.. You forget the difference in an offensive vs defensive toolkit let alone setup... ANY Profession has an easy time dealing dmg to you.. (with few exceptions). You rely on surprise and insta gank... and CH CH CH!

If all classes were considered in a concept of 100% being a total value of all variance between offensive and defensive just like an AGG/DEF bar.. Agent would be stacked heavily toward Offensive with little to no defense.. Keeper on the other hand used to have solid options for going either or but has always been near the middle.. The FEW Superior Keepers over the ages have managed to push both very far showing their abilities and how far they can take an innately broken class..

Now I can't say as who you are but fact is your showing a video of you basically easily owning the keeper professional.. are you trying to make a statement? Are you one of the best Agents in the game? Is he one of the best Keepers in the game? See the concept here? No offense to you but seriously you have no ground to stand on here.. your complaining that you should be able to kill one of the better keepers around "easier and faster" lol...

I am not saying your in perfect shape as a class.. but that is a totally different issue than ours. Please create your own whine topic.. this is ours! eg. GTFO!

[Regression]

And you expect me to always run around with 750ncu worth of buffs including rrfe?

I drop much faster without RRFE and other buffs too. That applies to everyone. and where most of the pvp happens (BS), getting those buffs is not a major issue.

I'm just referring to keeper vs agent. What you seem to get out of the vid is that keepers need more damage to alpha an agent in CH recharge -alone-. Sure, I'm fine with that, and that's actually how it is when I'm buffed differently. What I'm not fine with is that I have to wait 20 aimshots before the keeper is in any kind of danger while I'm in danger right from the start. In mass pvp, that's pretty much what matters. An agent is more vulnerable than a keeper. The keeper alpha may not kill me alone, but add an extra attacker and it does the job. You can't say the same for a keeper who's zerged. The agent alpha on an unperkable keeper consists of one aimshot that doesn't always cap 30% (as you can see from the vid, 4 aimshots until the big heal perk.. gawd).

You're in zero danger the entire fight. agents have plenty of hp to absorb our alphas, and if they don't, they can just kite.
Keepers are vulnerable once cocoon (2 minutes)/7kish heal (2 minutes)/bio rejuv (5 minutes) are gone. The first 2 handle a minimum of 2 ASes, on average probably 3-4. Rejuve handles 2ish, if enough time is available for all of hte healing to be done. Our defense is good, but for a limited time and definitely against zergs since we don't rely on nanos. But after that, we do go splat like everyone else.

4 aimshots until the big heal perk probably means I probably had devo armor up (essentially TMS). Look at how many UBTed hits it takes for us to get an agent low and how long that takes, which is then immediately nullified by a CH : P

The extra attacker in mass pvp has a better chance at killing an agent who's at 25%hp after a failed alpha from a keeper than killing a keeper who's at 70% hp after a failed 'alpha' from an agent.

I only bring all this up to say that your evades/aad can get really high, too high imo. And if on top of that you got more damage, then it will get even more frustrating for me vs unperkable keepers. I will not support more damage for keepers if it means they get two tries to alpha me while I'm reduced to an aimshot once every 11s in hopes you stick around for the 21st. While you're trying to figure out ways to get more damage, I'd be happy with getting my old damage back.

(I checked the vid, seems like it's 11aimshots then he died. Still too many. And still too boring on the offensive front for the agent.)

Without our evades/AAD being high, we'd go splat very quickly. Our main heal takes care of 1 capped hit and has a 2 minute recharge. Being unperkable is imperative for us to be able to live long enough to do anything.

edit: bugged post...

[NoGoal]

Keepers since LE are easier to root however, they seem to have unperked SD.

Keepers never perked SD, it's just that LE gave nanoskills without giving NR :P

If keepers became perkable to me, I'll be in support of giving keepers more damage (like sneak attack). For now, the fights remain stupid. If I die, it's cause I screwed up with heals or I'm not properly buffed with reflects (which I should do with TP, but I prefer gsf for kiting/chasing/running away sometimes), if he dies it's cause he didn't run after the 20th aimshot when all his heals are down. And everyone whines it's a 30% capping special, not always. Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuebvuE-LyI I have 2952 AR, 17.3kish hp, os-buffed with gsf, rrfe, ncu, wolf, at, and other minor buffs from alts. Tranquilizer (80% evade check, AS AR) didn't land, blinded with delights (attack modifier AR) didn't land. No point trying the rest.

Well keepers are agent nemesis, we can debuff your rifle by 1k. If you are complaining that it takes a while to kill a keeper with towers+wit as an agent without towers... Well you shouldn't be able to kill us at all.

SA would be nice yes but not all profs have high hp/heals/hd.

[Cheree]

You believe you should kill anything and everything right away without contest..

Nope, I just want to be able to use my toolset. Remember, I did say I supported more damage for keepers if I could perk. Shorter fights and both have a chance at killing.

Now I can't say as who you are but fact is your showing a video of you basically easily owning the keeper professional.. are you trying to make a statement?

Take my posts for face value.

GTFO!

And I thought people wanted various opinions.

I drop much faster without RRFE and other buffs too. That applies to everyone. and where most of the pvp happens (BS), getting those buffs is not a major issue.

It's an issue for me, but my own fault for not asking clan solds. I use my TP for gsf instead, which I believe to help more than rrfe. It helps for kiting, chasing down, and getting away from people.

You're in zero danger the entire fight. agents have plenty of hp to absorb our alphas, and if they don't, they can just kite.

Those are essentially defensive measures. HP is full proof (1vs1 only), I can have lower HP if reflects are running. But kiting is not full proof.

Look at how many UBTed hits it takes for us to get an agent low and how long that takes, which is then immediately nullified by a CH : P

We can CH indefinitely, point is when can you start your alpha.. and that's whenever it's up. So you could have done like the past hour before that and ran up to me, try your alpha, then run away. Not like I can use all my snares to stop you from getting away.

Keepers never perked SD, it's just that LE gave nanoskills without giving NR :P

I have lower nanoskills than Pre-LE actually, saved some ip for a more flexible setup with more swapping.

Well keepers are agent nemesis, we can debuff your rifle by 1k.

It may be called a nemesis-nano, but it hardly plays a factor in a fight. RI is more of a nemesis nano than what keeper's got, and you don't see soldiers being called the agent nemesis.

[Cyberleet]

Profession has an easy time dealing dmg to you.. (with few exceptions). You rely on surprise and insta gank... and CH CH CH!

Very few cobra-agents insant-gank anything and CH isn't spammable like that
Hit blind ring and a graft after the CH, voila' :>

It IS more of a topic about CH limiting the agent (the one in the storyline) to grow tho.

agents have plenty of hp to absorb our alphas..

This is a misconception, agents doesn't have a lot of HP. Infact they're very squishy in their best gear.
They can get a lot of HP_as everyone else can_ if they use certain gear combined with a certain mimic, which seems to be the trend

I think agents react on while Keeper/Adv are supposed to be rounded professions-
- they surpass them in AR and DD.

But bump for keeper love

[Xaun]

Very few cobra-agents insant-gank anything and CH isn't spammable like that
Hit blind ring and a graft after the CH, voila' :>

It IS more of a topic about CH limiting the agent (the one in the storyline) to grow tho.
This is a misconception, agents doesn't have a lot of HP. Infact they're very squishy in their best gear.
They can get a lot of HP_as everyone else can_ if they use certain gear combined with a certain mimic, which seems to be the trend

I think agents react on while Keeper/Adv are supposed to be rounded professions-
- they surpass them in AR and DD.

But bump for keeper love

lol... Monique you know I know it isn't spammable.. if it was.. then oi vey mi oh my.. I'd just do /terminate everytime I saw an agent instead lol..

It isn't that you have alot of HP it is that you have an almost endless ability to refresh that HP before we can make the rest go bye bye.. Again tho.. I am not in this thread to say anything negative about any class. I just want to see my own "first love" (not only one I play) get some love.. Fix Parry / Riposte instead of giving us this sword and we would have like 50 "new"(ish) swords to chose from

[Cheree]

If you can't disable the healing of an advy, doc, agent.. you need an alpha to kill. It's why I didn't understand X's argument about me healing regular hits. It's why I don't understand a keeper sticking around after the first alpha attempt. You don't need to tank us for 2mins waiting for your alpha to refresh, just run away to safety then come back and try again.

I understand agents can manage a setup so they can't be alphaed by a keeper. And keepers can manage a setup where they only have to worry about an aimshot every 11s. It seems fair n square 1vs1. Not fun, but fair.

[Regression]

If you can't disable the healing of an advy, doc, agent.. you need an alpha to kill. It's why I didn't understand X's argument about me healing regular hits. It's why I don't understand a keeper sticking around after the first alpha attempt.

The point of using regular hits is to get you low enough that an alpha can finish you and hope for some luck (lucky brawl stun or stun from khione blade in this case or the agent being stupid and casting something that isn't CH). An appropriately geared agent at full HP will not be alphaed by a keeper.

You don't need to tank us for 2mins waiting for your alpha to refresh, just run away to safety then come back and try again.

There's absolutely zero fun in that kind of play style, but I imagine you especially wouldn't agree (meep meep). There's a lot more to pvp than alphas, especially when it comes to trying to win a BS.

I understand agents can manage a setup so they can't be alphaed by a keeper. And keepers can manage a setup where they only have to worry about an aimshot every 11s. It seems fair n square 1vs1. Not fun, but fair.

The difference is that we eventually die. The agent wont.

I don't think our prof should be able to kill everyone else with ease, but I think its fair for us to at least have a chance at killing the healers. Especially against the prof for which we are the supposed "nemesis." Even if i think the whole nemesis nano idea was a bad idea and implemented nearly worse than anything else in game.

[Cheree]

There's absolutely zero fun in that kind of play style, but I imagine you especially wouldn't agree (meep meep).

And look where you ended up. I suppose everytime your heal perks are down you agree to dying rather than running. Just like all agents agree to death whenever they get hit with RI/UBT/GTH, etc. Right. Everyone should use all their tools and environment to their advantage - to help kill and survive. When there's nothing in your toolset that can bring you closer to your objective, there's no point letting the opponent have their way with you. Ex: I'm setup in gank gear. I pick a target. If my alpha succeeds, mission accomplished, get the hell out of there. If my alpha fails, my firepower is locked for some two minutes, and I'm not geared to survive, get the hell out of there. You have to make your own fun, no one will do it for you. Since agents don't particularly have devastating debuffs and gain little by standing still in between aimshots, my focus is to make your life difficult.

The difference is that we eventually die. The agent wont.

That difference is also why keepers can survive a zerg longer than an agent.

[Cyberleet]

it is that you have an almost endless ability to refresh that HP before we can make the rest go bye bye..

Which again creates a synergy effect on the class resulting in those inappropiate agent-builds.

Parry and Riposte should be fixed, aswell as adventuring, map navig etc.
It's a lot of old failed consepts.

An appropriately geared agent at full HP will not be alphaed by a keeper.

Talk about twisting things

[Thecrow91]

this sword is a waste.
don't even put it in game.

make it an end game item or remove it.

we don't want this funcom.
stop giving keeper's worthless items.

[Playerq]

That difference is also why keepers can survive a zerg longer than an agent.

So you are saying, correctly, that agents are more squishy then Keepers. Ok but the supposidly squishy prof can easily kill the the big powerful one.

It's like why Keepers will take out low hp greens in a crowd while soldiers and agents will target Keepers. People will go after whats easier to kill for them first.

[Xaun]

Kinda funny that the classes that are most dependent on Parry & Riposte are complaining the loudest in the forums at the moment? Even if they aren't talking about Parry & Riposte?

[Cheree]

So you are saying, correctly, that agents are more squishy then Keepers. Ok but the supposidly squishy prof can easily kill the the big powerful one.

Have you missed the last page or two of discussion? Agents can't dish out damage to unperkable keepers easily, that's the point.

[Xaun]

Have you missed the last page or two of discussion? Agents can't dish out damage to unperkable keepers easily, that's the point.

No it isn't. The point is this weapon sucks and we don't want it.

[Cheree]

Cheree: I understand agents can manage a setup so they can't be alphaed by a keeper. And keepers can manage a setup where they only have to worry about an aimshot every 11s. It seems fair n square 1vs1. Not fun, but fair.
Xpression: The difference is that we eventually die. The agent wont.
Cheree: That difference is also why keepers can survive a zerg longer than an agent.
Lordplayer: So you are saying, correctly, that agents are more squishy then Keepers. Ok but the supposidly squishy prof can easily kill the the big powerful one.
Cheree: Have you missed the last page or two of discussion? Agents can't dish out damage to unperkable keepers easily, that's the point.

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Xaun: No it isn't. The point is this weapon sucks and we don't want it.

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What?

[cacat]

Cheree: I understand agents can manage a setup so they can't be alphaed by a keeper. And keepers can manage a setup where they only have to worry about an aimshot every 11s. It seems fair n square 1vs1. Not fun, but fair.
Xpression: The difference is that we eventually die. The agent wont.
Cheree: That difference is also why keepers can survive a zerg longer than an agent.
Lordplayer: So you are saying, correctly, that agents are more squishy then Keepers. Ok but the supposidly squishy prof can easily kill the the big powerful one.
Cheree: Have you missed the last page or two of discussion? Agents can't dish out damage to unperkable keepers easily, that's the point.

...

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Xaun: No it isn't. The point is this weapon sucks and we don't want it.

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What?

Its the intrawebs cheere.

+you're Canadian.

Next time,when you see a keeper,get a moose to trample him while you root him using maple syrup.

[Hacre]

Its the intrawebs cheere.

+you're Canadian.

Next time,when you see a keeper,get a moose to trample him while you root him using maple syrup.

HAHAHAHAHAHA sigged, thanks Pala xD

[Playerq]

Have you missed the last page or two of discussion? Agents can't dish out damage to unperkable keepers easily, that's the point.

Well apart from the real point of the thread being about FC's inability to give us anything useful.

Mini-point is I wouldnt complain about being able to kill something with the healing power of a Keeper, who is also your nemisis so should be able to kill you!, solo then site keepers ability to survive a zerg.

Lets face it if the zerg involved 2+ soldiers (which is 99.999% of the time these days thank you dshark easy mode noob infestation and many of the keepers rerolling soldier now) we would drop quicker then an agent.

Sorry but you are fooling noone.