Trader drains Please fix

[Agreement]

Ummm what? Crats/docs/fp enf agents/NTs/traders/advs/fixers/enfs/MAs/MPs/keeps all have decent-very high NR, that just leaves shades, soldiers and fp doc agents so... what are you talking about?

Yeah, but the lack of stuff like HHAB make them low compared to TL7, and the trader at TL 4/5 has more nano skills than the average. But again some profs do better than others.

I seriously doubt that, divest lands on 2.6k NR like 4/5 times, so I imagine for lower NR profs, it's much worse.

It's a 90% check nano... and traders have around 2.8k-ish nanoskills or somewhere around there predrained.

Im sorry, but for me on a decent (read the decent, can you see the DECENT! ) 220, it only lands 2/3 time. NR is so random sometime, like landing a plunder on an enfo under rage on the first try…

2.8K nanoskill is a valid number for a trader, but that is with at least both procs and mochams
Exemple: lets say a trader selfcast his drains, and has around 1820 in TS/PM (1801 required).
- Both drains (a trader keeps them always up in BS, or at least tries) add 550 -> 2370

2370 is pretty far from 2800, your numbers fall into the "perfect fight rule" ie: I always have all drains/procs/mochams up… and is not valid to take into account.

Note: Procs: 136 for unforgiven debt and 204 for accumulated interest

Note: 90% of 2600 is… 2340! So trust me, I play(ed) a trader and it doesn't land as much as you think.

Well, it does always land on PvM chars/ungeared 220s and lowbies, we can agree on that .

meh.

[Moonbolt]

I seriously doubt that, divest lands on 2.6k NR like 4/5 times, so I imagine for lower NR profs, it's much worse.

It's a 90% check nano... and traders have around 2.8k-ish nanoskills or somewhere around there predrained.

u seriusly have no clue....

[howlin]

.. and traders have around 2.8k-ish nanoskills or somewhere around there predrained.

Yeah right...

[Koizumi]

traders have around 2.8k-ish nanoskills or somewhere around there predrained.

Ahah....ahahah....nice. post me a setup to do that and ill give you 2b for it
You apparently know soooo much about traders

[Weltall]

Ahah....ahahah....nice. post me a setup to do that and ill give you 2b for it
You apparently know soooo much about traders

Nope don't really know much about them, except what I heard, I think it was laroz or something that gave me that number so idk what his setup or what buffs he had running or whatever but anyway, point is, I can say divest usually lands on first try.

[Koizumi]

Nope don't really know much about them, except what I heard, I think it was laroz or something that gave me that number so idk what his setup or what buffs he had running or whatever but anyway, point is, I can say divest usually lands on first try.

Ah, so yo're saying you're basing on something somebody told you that u never bothered to confirm yourself ?
Also: FA usually lands on first try! Nerf!

[bitnykk]

the problem is at lower lvl, not at high level, so don't even try to write stuff

waddya think of my proposal then ?

But what happens at Tl5/6/7 who decides which version is 'balanced' version to land in PvP.

FC does ^_^
but if you want my opinion : on a PVP target, nanites should be landing only on 175+ or even TL6+ (for enhanced), and TL7+ or even 215+ (for improved).
anyways my proposal is just a sophisticated but simple implementation canvas, adding no crap gameplay for traders (like would with rough level locking), not nerfing PVM/Twinks nor ruining trader profession with useless fixes (cost, duration, linesparing, resistance, etc) and endly making other profession worthy to play against traders at lower levels when right now only -may be- enforcers are.
btw, i'd like to recall such balancing would justify to recheck enfos nano/procs (NR/AAO) along with notum repulsor line wich gives WAY too much NR for PVP. this was thought in a rebalance context.

[Koizumi]

and TL7+ or even 215+ (for improved)..

You have GOT to be kidding...make trader pvp even worse than it is now?
Like i got time to watch in a zerg who is 215+ and who isnt...

[Agreement]

Nope don't really know much about them, except what I heard, I think it was laroz or something that gave me that number so idk what his setup or what buffs he had running or whatever but anyway, point is, I can say divest usually lands on first try.

Then don't post stuff about trader!
Post about the profession you know well (ie: the ones you play).
These posts are misleading and end up trolling the thread.
You can comment about any trader stuff, but not make up numbers/stats/skills you are not sure of.
This is for everybody, not only you, you don't know the prof, you don't post!

waddya think of my proposal then ?

The improved nanites drains landing only is on a 215+ chars (or even TL7+) is clearly a nerf to high level trader, and it's not where the problem is.
At lower level, I think a TL5 should be allowed to cast Enhanced nanite. Why? Because even before SL, trader use to cast they ultimate drains at 140-160 (even lower) with more or less drain laddering.
Removing that and not having any weapon buff or nanoskill buff, that would nerf us real bad.


One idea worth considering is applying a certain debuff target wise but still getting the buff from the original nano casted.

Ex: I cast a Divest Skills (Nanites Enhanced) on the target, the target is debuffed by Divest Skills (Advanced), but I still get the Divest Skills (Nanites Enhanced) buff.

But I have no idea to which levels these changes should apply.


meh.

[sultryvoltron]

Then don't post stuff about trader!
Post about the profession you know well (ie: the ones you play).
These posts are misleading and end up trolling the thread.
This is for everybody, not only you, you don't know the prof, you don't post!

This is a fallacy. Sure, don't post false numbers about professions you don't play, but everyone has experience being on the receiving end of nukes/debuffs/alphas from other profs. These people are adequately qualified to give their experience against these things. In short, people can post about whatever they want, as we all have opinions about other professions. If they post something false, call them out. It happens alot.

[Agreement]

This is a fallacy. Sure, don't post false numbers about professions you don't play, but everyone has experience being on the receiving end of nukes/debuffs/alphas from other profs. These people are adequately qualified to give their experience against these things. In short, people can post about whatever they want, as we all have opinions about other professions. If they post something false, call them out. It happens alot.

That's what I mean't to say, blame my cold!

[bitnykk]

Like i got time to watch in a zerg who is 215+ and who isnt...

You've GOT to be reading the proposal in detail. like you took time to do it ... cause if you had you wouldn't write this. i'm not gonna reexplain, it's up to you to read before anything.

improved nanites (...) on a 215+ chars(...) is clearly a nerf to high level trader (...)
At lower level, I think a TL5 should be allowed to cast Enhanced nanite.
(...)
One idea worth considering is applying a certain debuff target wise but still getting the buff from the original nano casted.
(...)
But I have no idea to which levels these changes should apply.

i don't have exact notion on wich target level for wich debuff, but i got these feelings :
- enhanced is too much on a 150 target except few professions (like trader, enfo & may be soldier) ; should be at least 175+ imho.
- improved is okay on very high levels, why i think should be 207+ (to counter MR ganknaabz !) or even 215+.
- also i'd like to make the trader takeback/refresh the exact transfer of what lands on opponent NCU ; in this case if he got higher version running (from mob pre-drain e.g.), he's on limited time of crazy AR wich also balances the lower titles.

duration & version control is what i envision with such balancing. exact scaling is up to FC anyways.

[Agreement]

Leave the nanites improved drains alone!
They require level 215, so they are not part of the problem.

The nanites enhanced drains may require some nerfing, but im not sure if level locking is right.
As I said, trader are used to cast high level nanos at low levels and need the drains because of the lack of weapon/nano buff.

Since I don't play a trader at these level ranges:
Do the TL5 traders are able to cast Corporate protection/Industrial sabotage?
I'm pretty sure they can, but still asking.

If yes, this first should be nerfed (access to CP/IS only to level ≥200 imo) and a little to nerf Lesser Corporate Protection to do half of the effects of Corporate protection (same should apply for Lesser IS).
ie: -175 instead of -200aao, aad buff remaining the same since it's half of the CP one.

I need some TL5 traders gim…twinks feedback for this post.

meh.

[Jekonam]

Since I don't play a trader at these level ranges:
Do the TL5 traders are able to cast Corporate protection/Industrial sabotage?
I'm pretty sure they can, but still asking.

This shows that you don't know anything about tl5 pvp.

I need some TL5 traders gim…twinks feedback for this post.

And this shows your inability to research information easily accessible.

[Jekonam]

The very existence of this thread proves that people are more concerned about "annoying" stuff rather than real balance, let alone providing real arguments.

All those naked NT's nuking twinked toons or 170 agents destroying majority of the professions in 4secs. We have enfos with ridicilous alpha for tl5 and advies with huge rs+alpha and unkillable docs, and you decide to whine about tl5 traders?

Seriously, if you really hate us that much, try to form a proper argument that is based on something real, because so far I have seen only tears of gullibility.

[Agreement]

This shows that you don't know anything about tl5 pvp.

And this shows your inability to research information easily accessible.

Yes, and at least I'm asking.
And I'm of course too lazy to search.
This whole part of the forum (Balance discussion) is just about jumping at the throat of people…

Anyway meh.

PS: I only "troll" this thread because of some dumb asses making stuff up, screwing our beloved profession at higher level, like "let's remove plunder" or "put a lockdown on one drain so he can't use another", all these ideas are just dumb…

In my opinion there is no issues here, twinks can't be a part of any balancing, it would be useless, and would jeopardize the real balancing (ie: leveling and high level characters).

moar meh.

[Weltall]

Ah, so yo're saying you're basing on something somebody told you that u never bothered to confirm yourself ?
Also: FA usually lands on first try! Nerf!

If you even bothered to read you'd see the numbers wasn't my point. The landrate was. I ccl abt confirming how much nanoskills a trader has but yeah go ahead rant on about pointless crap lol

[Jekonam]

twinks can't be a part of any balancing, it would be useless, and would jeopardize the real balancing

So, all these thousands of views and thousands of replies on all threads concerning tl5 pvp are useless. Yes, you must be right. There is NO reason to balance tl5 pvp. Its useless afterall.

Even tho majority of active traders are @ tl5 range, nevermind them, they don't deserve balance.

Im disagreeing with you entirely and I can't see how can you say such an ignorant thing on a game where many veterans play this game still today only because of the twinking of tl5 toons.

[iolanda]

Leave the nanites improved drains alone!
They require level 215, so they are not part of the problem.

The nanites enhanced drains may require some nerfing, but im not sure if level locking is right.
As I said, trader are used to cast high level nanos at low levels and need the drains because of the lack of weapon/nano buff.

Since I don't play a trader at these level ranges:
Do the TL5 traders are able to cast Corporate protection/Industrial sabotage?
I'm pretty sure they can, but still asking.

If yes, this first should be nerfed (access to CP/IS only to level ≥200 imo) and a little to nerf Lesser Corporate Protection to do half of the effects of Corporate protection (same should apply for Lesser IS).
ie: -175 instead of -200aao, aad buff remaining the same since it's half of the CP one.

I need some TL5 traders gim…twinks feedback for this post.

meh.

At tl5 depending on setup your looking at around 1000 up to 1300 nanoskills , can get even higher but it will ruin your off/def setup or w/e you wish to play with .
In regards to CP , yes it can be casted after 1st drain easy .
I would be against removing nanite at tl5 since they do the job but CP has to go im okey with that part, but combining both nanite + cp together is yea ... and the argument get NR doesnt really handle so well . My advice for a sure fix for every titles is make a lockout on all drains PER target aka , target rezists drain you cant cast it on him for another 10s , 15s . At the curent stage at tl5 its either your bulked out AR and kill the trader or your dead , as much as other debuffs ingame are killer and hurt trader drains are allmost 100% disable it probebly misses to root the target also to be fully 100% . But yea anyway my idea is make a lock on it if it lands it lands if you counter you got another 15s to live with out em .

[alderwaran]

two weeks ago i went to bs to get the needed vp for research devices. at the bs i ran into a trader and was debuffed from ~980ar to -170... couldn't see what was running because after i saw the negative ar i also instantly died. (zerg team i suppose)

so yes i understand why trader debuffs should be nerfed (and locked to appropriate level), and anyone should understand me when i say ao pvp sucks with it's stone-paper-scissor mechanics.