Healing and Defence Perk Breakdown Tl5

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Here is a breakdown of all heals that are used at TL5

Agent/Doc: CH is 10000HP/8s = 1250HP/s
Agent/Doc: life giving elixir 988HP(ave) /4.56s = 217HP/s +other heals
Advy: Moonbeam 911 (ave) /4.74s = 192 HP/s +phoenix
MA: Enlightened aura of healing 949(ave)/8.59s+red dawn= 123HP/s
Trader: preeminent health haggler (869-(229/2))/3.7= 204HP/s
Enforcer: Mongo Crush 230HP/2s +bio rejuv 35HP/s +blessing of life 400HP/50s =15HP/m + lifeblood 3360/300s= 169HP/s
Keeper: LoH+CT+amb rev+bio rejuv= 15HP/s+20HP/s+25Hp/s+9HP/s= 69HP/s
Fixer: omnimed exc. 199/5s+BYrevital 280/10s= 67.8HP/s +heal proc 37HP/s

Now consider the perk investment
LOH+CT+biorejuv =13 perks
none of the other heals listed require any perk investment except 1 for MA on red dawn (and bio rejuv on enf, but, the coon is far more important)
Finally, there is the comparison of activatable defences, ie, defences on demand.


Advy: 800evades +200evades +4600layers+ 192HP/s (11 perks)
MA: 800evades+200 evades+300 AAD+123HP/s (11 perks)
Enforcer: 4600 layers+ 169 HP/s (14 perks)
keeper: 4600absorbs+ 89 evade cls (20s) +21% reflect (16s)+ 69HP/s (13 perks)
fixer 800 evades +200 evades+ 300 AAD+ 68HP/S+procced 37HP/s = 105HP/s (11 perks)

Whichever way you cut it, keeper can't get enough 1. healing 2. (no SA) so lacks capping hit 3. needs 13 perks JUST to provide basic defences, leaving 4. VERY substandard offensive options through perks.

with 4 perks remaining to be put into reaver, our AR is limited, our damage perks suffer greatly, and still have 1. substandard evades, 2. substandard healing. 3. heavy reliance on HM line (which provides a FAR FAR FAR lower benefit for perks invested than acrobat), or coccoon, which instead of being an "emergency use item" becomes the "primary" defence.



TL;DR Version:

Keepers suffer lack of perks, gain moderate static defences, have a SEVERE lack of reliable and usuable activatable defences and the lowest HP/s at TL5 among melee classes.
MA/enf/fixer somewhere in the middle, and,
Advy miles ahead of every prof, with huge static bonuses, huge and best activatable defences, and the highest HP/s.

[shishu]

you didnt post doc short hot and nanocost(is hard to tell whit -cost setup due 2 many setup chose)
And you didnt post doc defensive?

Oh...wait...what?

[sultryvoltron]

One area that you don't fully address imo is the amount you actually have to use those defenses.

Docs need to chain-cast heals to survive since they have low evades. Agents also need to chain cast heals since they have low evades. Advys don't need to chain cast anything and can suffice with a few Mooonbeams, pop off Coon and DoF and hit a CH during your immunity.

Fixers and MAs, same thing sorta. They don't get hit as much, so they need less healing. It balances out decently (not so great for Fixers) and even more so with the AS nerf.

I don't know about the evades of a TL5 Keeper, but I do know that their healing does not make up for the amount they get hit, based upon the meager defenses available to them. That's the biggest imbalance that I see.

[shishu]

is not imbalance at all ....i mean keep vs doc on my setup :-)
I duel same nice keep and they are very hard to kill
I did duel 1 time mcknukle but was not legit cuz i did have cost buff from bs and i was not able to kill him...strong evade and strong heal to and strong DD , i did CH Chain like over 10 time
Whit 4 dots and special +dd perk and he heal up 100% after i did take him to 20%
W/o cost i was a dead doc
So try hard

[Ciex]

But, but ...keepers healing is 60 hp/s. You should be able to kill him with one DoT!

[shishu]

ask pakaty5(sorry if i didnt spell right) i think it was there when i did duel mcknukle
And are same nice keep at tl5

[Moonbolt]

that calculations are so biased....
he includes the healing from bio coon perk lineon enfs but not on keepers...

[Klod9002]

IMO, all that is needed is hitting advs and docs in defensive department with a nerf bat.

[erozc]

Engi is the nerfest, Bio Rejuvenation heals only and super gimp evades :s and if you don't perk cocoon there's zero activatable defenses / heals too. Fix your list please.

Btw you didn't count the kitty insta heal for advies which can be used situationally if required.

[PingBong]

you left out a massive amount of not so obvious healing from stims to sit kits to grafts and other click heal items which @ tl5 amounts to around 100 hps bringing all profs much closer together

[somenamehere]

Professions who need to chain cast their heals have more healing than profession who don't need to cast as often, who have more healing from professions who have to cast them once and forget about them. As it should be, that is why there are drains, init debuffs and stuns.

[Nanostratege]

kinda misses the healdelta, as far as i know keeper got quite a good one.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

heal delta, first aid, and treatment kits are non-prof specific so they weren't included.

i didn't include bio rejuv on keeper since in an evade setup, which most keepers are in, there aren't enough perks for it.

it only adds 250 HP/30 seconds though, (9HP/s) so, it really adds just a tiny bit.

It's still clear though, for the amount of damage keepers need to suck up, there isn't sufficient healing available.

[Parranoid1]

keeper can get a rather fast healdelta tick tho...

im not debating the point that keeper dosnt need help, but you did leave it out, most keepers at tl5 are atrox, and they can get a 2s HD tick as easy if not easier then enfos, couse GoM > behe for stam...

[Bloodhoundje]

Keepers definitly need a De-nerf, myself on rk2:

Deathprobe 150/11/maxed LE lvl keeper

Im in a full evasion setup, every item I use is for evade/defensive so I can be one awesome tanktoon.
Using Blade of Khione as weapon (300-390(300)).


in my setup i can get around 1350 passive evades, adding procs and perk with that i get close to 1450-1500 evasion. This excludes AAD.
I use the Blessing line and the Bio coon line as perks, got keepers ai perk maxed out, and got wit of the atrox trained.

VS well twinked other players:
Soldier: they have such high AR that with wit of the atrox I got 1320 dodge, they eat right through it like I didnt put any points in evades.

Fixer: Fixers do get a harder time to hit me, I can survive most fixers. The only problem is there onehander aimedshot, with 6% crit decrease they still manage to cap aimedshots often on me, rendering coon useless.

Agent: There alpha brings my 11.5k hp down to around 2k hp, then with healperks I get back to half hp so they can do another cap aimedshot. I cocoon, they cap as through coon and I die.

Engineer: no problemo, can fight them off.

Crat: Dito as engineer.

Trader: 2 drains and I cant hit the trader anymore, while they as spam me to death.

Shade: /afk shades need lovin too.

Enforcer: I dueled my friends PVM tank setup enforcer, he has 25k hp is lvl 150 and using a mawl of gawwghwga or whatever its called (dmg 400-600).
As tank build he did not go for any AR setups. but with challenger+both procs firing, he has 1900!!! AR. he hits me 85% of the time. and he can keep this up forever, he outheals my dmg with his mongo inside his coon time. He can PERK ME when my evasions are ALL UP. I even got RI from a MA to try again, he perks me even through that. Im in full defense nonstop.

Advy: They steamroll over you like enforcers, got high ar, sick heals, sick evades(hard time hitting them when i swap to my AR hud and perk up, I got 1500AR, and they lol @ it.

NT: Root, Nuke, Root, Nuke, Root, Nuke. Oh hey the keepers is dead.


So what I would like to see is keepers back to what they were ment to be:
ANTI-MELEE-CLASS
so I dont care of the soldier kills me, or the agent, or the nt, or the fixer.
What I want is our profession use back. If enforcers can get over 2k AR at tl5 without much twinking. I want keepers to get over 2.5k defensive against this. We are anti melee, so enforcers should not be able to wtf steamroll us.
Lost Eden Nemesis nano should be against a MELEE PROFESSION. I dont want your crappy -1k rifle debuff against agents, I want to see the Nemesis nano that NT's get. The one against enforcers, the one that removes there offensive buffs and HP buffs. This is what we are, ANTI-MELEE so this is what we need, a nemesis nano against the melee we fight.

For perks, give keepers WAY more evades in there perkline. for example add +10 evasion on every level of the Blessing line, Insight shouldnt add 89 evasion. make it add like 400 evasion! dont change the ammount of dodge, only adjust the evades. Insight is our little version of dof/limber so its only fair to give us our advantage too, the perk has a long cooldown, doesnt last forever so its only more the balanced to me to adjust this stuff.
For healing. Make the AOR line heal higher, the current healing is a joke. Condense AOR with the Blessing line for example to fix this entire problem. given we are the perk based profession. We should get perklove. We dont have tons of damage perks like other profs. We dont have insane healing.

So in short:
Keepers need:
-More Evasion
-Fix to Healing perklines
-Insight Boosted
-LE Nemesis nano against Enforcers.
-Love

Now go fix this profession!

[Ciex]

Id like to see lvl 150 enf setup with 25k hp, 1,9k ar and ability to outheal dmg from blade of khione tbh, it may give me some ideas for my lvl 170 twink.

[Bloodhoundje]

Id like to see lvl 150 enf setup with 25k hp, 1,9k ar and ability to outheal dmg from blade of khione tbh, it may give me some ideas for my lvl 170 twink.

I will ask him to give me his auno setup when he is online tonight and I will post it here for you.

[Fifty50]

If you are even gonna pretend this is a fair comparison, you need to include absorbs, calculate healing from Heal delta, and include healing procs aswell as HoTs procs. You need some sort of estimate on how much of the time procs are likely to be running, or how often it procs. The numbers you present are as if fixer hot procs are running 100% of the time.


That you manage to exclude Bio shielding healing perks from keepers but not for other profs, puts you in a bad light... wanna be objective, you need to do all your homework!

This is not a small task if you wanna compare all professions.

[wolfmyth]

There's also a large difference between having to spam a heal every few seconds, casting a heal that takes ages to cast and casting a massive heal instantly.

[Bloodhoundje]

Ok as I promissed, im going to post my setup below and my friends enforcers setup. Take in mind my friend has no trouble killing me, if we both use our full toolset. he has 75% hp left when I die.

My setup (Deathprobe):
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=147146

My friends enforcer (Murstenen):
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=147143


Now just say what you guys think.