Enforcers RAGE Nano - rework (NERF!)

[Kazeran]

..snip..

How about asking for the snare on ess to be lowered, not removed because their should be a penalty with it. Now you don't need RS for rage. RS cap is what 2.3k? and enfs brag about 3k+ RS? i high doubt that rage needs to buff RS by that amount.

You have enough AR to wtf any casting prof fairly easy, and enough to do damage to hurt non casting profs.

As for rage, why not change it to resist to root/snare and keep the root breaking ability. Maybe a small NR debuff, but not 1.2k.

If enforcers didnt have the rage prof it might not be as big of a deal, however combined them its more then OP. There are plenty of way to change something and keep it useful while toning the power of it down.

[Armus]

Rage doesn't need a nerf at all. Ma's and keepers need something similar. That's the only thing we need to change.

[sultryvoltron]

Who said that Enfs were the "Anti-Caster" profession?

[Ciex]

@ciefasky you're full of crap man. your AR is below other melee profs without challenger running? seriously?

Yes, it is as i said before its a bit more than 1,6k. And i said "combat" professions (not cc healers). So you should also look at sold, agent in fp enf etc.

twinked shade has about 1400.

Ok, now we know that you have never ever played a good shade.

keeper has about 1800

Isnt 1800 more than 1600?

MA I dunno

Than why dont you ask before posting crap on forums? Arent you a candidate for MA professional BTW?

Advy probably around 1600.

Hehe, sure ...

If enf is hitting 2.2K AR with challenger and 1 proc, I doubt you've got "low" AR.

My AR with procs and chall is very good and the proce i pay for this is my low healing. The problem with procs is that they can fire on first hit or you may beat someone for 5 minutes without seeing it. Without a proc running in first 30s of a fight im a dead toast vs advy and some other evaders that feel like kiting.

If anything, challenger needs a significant nerf by about 100 AAO.

Ive nothing against it if only ill be given CH and acrobat perk line like advys.

As i said before there is to much "nerf this, nerf that" around. make some good suggestions to boost your performance if you feel like you need a bit of love.

[Javafan]

twinked shade has about 1400.

If I remember correctly I had close to 1670 AR on my shade at lvl 170. That without being pre-drained. And I was not heavily twinked (stuff like ql 250 ofab penultimate gloves, 240-250 AI armor or ado brain spirit, etc).

But trying to keep that AR up meant I would get low defenses and it costs the shade. But in the end shade proved to be somewhat fun in 150-174 BS.

[erozc]

Things

You didn't actually reply to my question of whether or not an enf would have any reason at all not to have rage running all the time (with the possible exception of not needing it at that time). Furthermore, you didn't comment on the self damage part at all either.

Oh, I forgot on the previous post, rage gives inits as well, so it works to counter init debuffs some as well. So the list is now inits, NR, run speed, CC removal. I'd add damage shield too if it wasn't halved. The NR provided gives immunity to all control/support profession perks (not all those professions are casters) that check versus NR.

Finally if rage really is an enf's defensive saving grace, maybe it shouldn't be up and running all the time? Like, how DoF or cocoon aren't up all the time either. Just food for thought.

[shishu]

by increase to 1400 nanocost will force enf to cast a lil less ....

Oh..wait...what?

[Pomidor]

Ppl... when did I wrote, that I want or suggest nerfing Rage in any way you speek of?

I just stated, that RAGE should get regular penelty, DMG wise to enforcer. It used to deal regular dmg, then FC made change to 50% dmg halved in PVP, thus, rage drawback effect in dmg was lowered aswell.

LEAVE RAGE with all stats as it is NOW, but just twice the DMG that enforcers takes while useing it (like in SL!).

[Zandibel]

I think the point the OP was trying to make was that at low levels rage wins fights. Higher up it's less of a game breaker.

[Ciex]

by increase to 1400 nanocost will force enf to cast a lil less ....

Oh..wait...what?

Good idea if only enfs could get nano proc from their ring like docs have. One single proc would fill my nano pool, mmm, twice!

[shishu]

yea...at 1 time we agree at something...and you will see how the ring work and when you need'it it dont fire

[Moonbolt]

umm i have to check this but im pretty sure the dmg isnt halved in pvp for rage.
ill check next time i log on.

[Xenotric]

the damage on rages is half what the nano states at all times due to the 50% less damage if your a PC, only NPC enforcers will take the full damage.

Tbh, as a person who plays a class who should technically be dependant on snares, I wouldn't mind seeing rage changed so its not so spammable, give it some downtime between casts so theres atleast a short duration where a large chunk of my toolset could potentially work (unless target has lots of resist % which lets face it, everyone seems to have these days and those that dont only need to fire off a couple of FM stims)

[Gatester]

How about asking for the snare on ess to be lowered, not removed because their should be a penalty with it. Now you don't need RS for rage. RS cap is what 2.3k? and enfs brag about 3k+ RS? i high doubt that rage needs to buff RS by that amount.

I did, a while ago. Also, I do not believe you or any non-enforcer is aware of how devastating nanos are verse an enforcer. We don't have 25%+ resistance and removal tools and alternative nanos that do us any good. 1 Drain, 1 zap nano, 1 GTH, 1 Crown of Frost, 1 blind, even 1 incompetence nano can shutdown an enforcers offense or defense entirely asside from Cocoon. Next step is hotswapping so we can cast again, at which case we lose even more offense or defense.

You cannot allow enforcers to be easily debuffed.

Who said that Enfs were the "Anti-Caster" profession?

Me and my stuns, perks, and 3200-3600 Nano Resist.

You didn't actually reply to my question of whether or not an enf would have any reason at all not to have rage running all the time (with the possible exception of not needing it at that time). Furthermore, you didn't comment on the self damage part at all either.

We have to keep rage running 100% of the time, or our NR is about 1800-2000. It would make us soldiers with 3% reflects.

Oh, I forgot on the previous post, rage gives inits as well, so it works to counter init debuffs some as well. So the list is now inits, NR, run speed, CC removal. I'd add damage shield too if it wasn't halved.

You guys whine so much because our buff is an all-in-one constantly cast buff. If you want, you could give us the NR, inits, and damage shield buff running constantly, and make rage just cast RS buff and CC remover. Then it would be closer to every other prof with 55%+ perma reflects, high level evade buffing, runspeed buffing, damage reduction nanos, 90%+ CC resistance, etc etc etc. Pretty much it is balanced because we have to maintain it, and you guys get it without effort.

The NR provided gives immunity to all control/support profession perks (not all those professions are casters) that check versus NR.

Are you saying we should not only be perked by their weapon perks, but all of their NR based attacks too? Enforcers are not a survival prof, we need a defense against something if we are going to be vulnerable to high damage and debuffs.

If anything I would say something like Adventurer root/snare "immunity", capped RS, and unperkable status vs them are a bigger threat to control/support profs than an Enf avoiding CoNC perks.

Finally if rage really is an enf's defensive saving grace, maybe it shouldn't be up and running all the time? Like, how DoF or cocoon aren't up all the time either. Just food for thought.

Ok, let's trade. Ill give you Rage, and you give me your CC resistance, static capped RS, and Acrobat. Speed for speed, CC tool for CC tool, evades for NR. Ill just have to deal with that horrible 20 seconds of vulnerability.

[Moonbolt]

sure i could agree to remove rage if enfs got a runspeed buff a NR buff and all roots got a 5 min cooldown.
u guys that say ur rely on snares / roots should try to play a mellee char without root resist / root breakers.
for example as an enf being hit with Specialized burden of atlas is usually a 100% loose.
even if i spam my FM stims it still takes 3-4 aplications to get rid of.. thats 15-20 secs.
imagine being an enf if rage didnt exist.
All roots / snares takes atleast 3 FM stims to remove at endgame, that leaves plenty of time to just refresh it and the enf wouldnt be able to move at all during the fight.
CC in pvp when it can be chain cast is a very bad idea and removes the fun of all pvp for non CC classes especially mellee.
as it is i already hate meeting NTs in pvp cause if they land CB + CB + root its a free win for them.
with my NR decreased by 2k its not like im gonna resist the root. and if i against all odds resist 1 root attemt they can just throw 1 more CB and laugh at me while i spend my FM stims trying to get our of the root and then just refresh it when it has 1 sec left.

[Kazeran]

I did, a while ago. Also, I do not believe you or any non-enforcer is aware of how devastating nanos are verse an enforcer. We don't have 25%+ resistance and removal tools and alternative nanos that do us any good. 1 Drain, 1 zap nano, 1 GTH, 1 Crown of Frost, 1 blind, even 1 incompetence nano can shutdown an enforcers offense or defense entirely asside from Cocoon. Next step is hotswapping so we can cast again, at which case we lose even more offense or defense.

Funny i never said i have never played a enforcer before... Just because you play enforcer as your main no way makes you right on everything, stop acting that way. As far as how devastating nano are vs a said prof I am very well aware, I play a doctor. Yes we can remove some debuffs, just so they can be recasted on us 2 seconds later. Do you know how to deal with that? You use lower nanos. If your going to complain that only 1 debuff cripples you that much its called sacrificing something else for more nano skills so its not as crippling.

[Kopecz]

I just stated, that RAGE should get regular penelty, DMG wise to enforcer. It used to deal regular dmg, then FC made change to 50% dmg halved in PVP, thus, rage drawback effect in dmg was lowered aswell.

LEAVE RAGE with all stats as it is NOW, but just twice the DMG that enforcers takes while useing it (like in SL!).

Just to make sure you understand how rage works:

the damage on rages is half what the nano states at all times due to the 50% less damage if your a PC, only NPC enforcers will take the full damage.

Let's use Infernal Rage for example: on RK it does around 54 fire dmg every 2 seconds for 17 hits. That = 918 damage in 34 seconds before reflects.

An enforcer at TL5 can cast Greater Fortify. That means that with Rage running the enforcer will be inflicted with approximately 61 points of fire damage and have the fire layer completely negated. Of course the Enforcer will recast his layers, but if you're dealing fire damage it means you break through layers much faster. This is a real concern for most enforcers with all the advys and other enforcers running around dealing what? You guessed it: fire damage.

Not trying to say it's not OP or whatever, just pointing out that there is another drawback to using rage if your opponents deals fire damage.

In SL Infernal Rage hits for 486 fire damage every 2 seconds for 9 hits. That = 4374 fire damage in 18 seconds before reflects.

That's almost 5 times the damage that Rage dispenses while in SL. I just wanted to point out that the OPs statement that Rage deals 2X damage in SL is wrong.

[Xenotric]

I havn't used layers with my rage since around level 30 on my enforcer, my heal delta and/or mongo heal is generally sufficient to counteract it, but of course this means its healing less of the damage taking from the enemys, but the rage dot in normal circumstances by no means cripples me or even makes me worry.

Of course in a pvp situation having layers up is always a good thing so what you said about it taking them down is a bit more valid there, but at the same time its not meant to be permenatly on, so if your fighting say an adventurer who has no roots or direct damage nukes (outside lizard form) then there tends to be less reason to have it up (ok runspeed buff helps but tends not to be 100% nessecary, atleast in my experience).

Personally I dont mind rage, its a good tool for the enforcer and completely nerfing it would just deteriorate the game, but at the same time I dont beleive it should be seen or be usable as something thats permenatly on, it should be situational and non spammable or if people do wish to keep it as something they can generally keep on constantly give it a bigger downside (either by giving it a bigger dot to be inline with todays HP amounts, or something like an AAD debuff)

[Kopecz]

Don't know what TL you play Enforcer at Xeno, but at TL7 at least, Rage is up pretty much 100% of the time as are layers. And yes, at pretty much any time after 2 sec HD is reached rage does what amounts to 0 damage on RK.

In SL Rage damage means that IMongo is healing that up and not mob damage, not that rage is terribly important in SL mind you, but just for everyone's FYI as far as the actual amount of damage inflicted is concerned.

[Gatester]

Funny i never said i have never played a enforcer before... Just because you play enforcer as your main no way makes you right on everything, stop acting that way. As far as how devastating nano are vs a said prof I am very well aware, I play a doctor. Yes we can remove some debuffs, just so they can be recasted on us 2 seconds later. Do you know how to deal with that? You use lower nanos. If your going to complain that only 1 debuff cripples you that much its called sacrificing something else for more nano skills so its not as crippling.

I know more than you about enforcers, thats enough Your "lower" buff comment is proof enough. Not only can Improved mongo not be cancelled during its over 3minute duration to cast a lower mongo for any healing at all, but the lower buffs in an enforcer arsenal are inneffective in the current state of pvp, require a quick cancelling of half the debuffs running in your NCU, or still could not be cast.

Enforcers cannot remove or cast anything with NSD. Enforcers cannot remove and can cast almost nothing with Trader drains. We don't have a 10000 (14000) heal or massive init debuffs for our "lower" nanos that can be cast with -1000 nanoskills or any perk based evades, AR buffs, or CC removers. Enforcers rely on their nanos to pvp and cocoon/HoT perks to survive in pvp. Enforcers could not pvp without NR unless we had the AR to ignore debuffs, and we do not.

Doctors have it far easier when it comes to debuffs than enforcers do, I have both, I pvp with both, and having a chance to remove them at all (and in the future gain short term immunity) is far better than a broken defense skill that a simple recast usually bypasses.