Agility Perks, Please.

[Notcrattey]

So doctors would be very limited on doing anything, as well as NTs, MPs, crats, and everyone else who needs to constantly cast nanos? Pets would die even faster, pvm would be go for 3 mintues, then everyone stop to get nano back?

This is a team based game, we have professions that help with nano management! (Hi traders!)

[wyldebeast]

In the "general" tab, we have:
"Genius" that buffs Intelligence/Psychic
"Freak Strength" that buffs Strength/Stamina
but there's nothing for Agility/Sense.

I purpose adding "Contortionist" to balance things out.

Bump for a good idea, but to level the playfield I suggest removing the ability buffs that a few profession get in this area at the moment. Advys, Agents and Fixers get agility or sense from their profession specific perks. No other professions gain any ability buffs from their specific perklines.

The only place you need the abilities is when twinking on new gear and everyone needs it equally here, so those three professions whining about how much THEY need these buffs is pointless. Everyone else needs ability buffs just as much as you do.

The tl:dr
Make an agi/sense line.
Make all ability buffing perklines either group perklines or general perklines. (pref. the latter)

[Moonbolt]

enforcers, soldier, keeper, agent, adv gain str stam from mauntaineer and shades gain agi from acro etc. there is several profs that gains stats from prof and group perks.

[wyldebeast]

enforcers, soldier, keeper, agent, adv gain str stam from mauntaineer and shades gain agi from acro etc. there is several profs that gains stats from prof and group perks.

Those are all from group perks, not profession specific perks.

[Kazeran]

This is a team based game, we have professions that help with nano management! (Hi traders!)

And what do we do when we dont have those, not play?

[Hacre]

Ehm

When did twinking suddenly become hard?

Lya patches, DB sleeves, DB pants, two ability buffing bracers, ability buffing hud in addition to eye of the evening stars/rings of divine teardrops, the latter of which aren't no drop, DB NCUs, LoX NCUs and god knows what else.

We need -more-?? What?

[Prynxkjui]

Most of the stuff in that list is tl7+ only, there are other tl's as well.


Anyway, there currently are:
An int/psy line, obviously favoring Troxes the most.
A str/sta line, obviously favoring Opifexes the most.

There should be:
An agi/sense line, obviously favoring Nanomages the most.

Just sounds fair. Or remove Genius and Freak Strength altogether.

[XenonDe]

Ehm

When did twinking suddenly become hard?

Lya patches, DB sleeves, DB pants, two ability buffing bracers, ability buffing hud in addition to eye of the evening stars/rings of divine teardrops, the latter of which aren't no drop, DB NCUs, LoX NCUs and god knows what else.

We need -more-?? What?

I agree with hacre on that one. At tl7 there is not much more need for carefull planning of abillities when twinking. You raid the stuff quick and be done with it. Carefull considerations whether you use a slot for stamina or for agility have become obsolet since their are "teh bestest" options available for most slots now - which is not a bad thing.

Most of the stuff in that list is tl7+ only, there are other tl's as well.

I agree, it might not be fair. I don't know actually. In the past it used to be way easier to get sta/agi then some other stats. But fof the TL7 stuff we do have other options we can use which buff to a lesser degree, sure, but still are quite workable.
I enjoy twinking in the TL4-6 range. I also think we have a lot of nice options there and can allready twink characters to the extreme with ease thanks to the full perk reset. And if someone lacks the buffing gear, just use the full reset before you leave town/go to work, perk into abillities, equip your ****, and come back to a freshly twinked toon 2 days later.

I don't see much reason to get "more".

[Hacre]

Most of the stuff in that list is tl7+ only, there are other tl's as well.


Anyway, there currently are:
An int/psy line, obviously favoring Troxes the most.
A str/sta line, obviously favoring Opifexes the most.

There should be:
An agi/sense line, obviously favoring Nanomages the most.

Just sounds fair. Or remove Genius and Freak Strength altogether.

You can start getting the rings in Ely and I -believe- they're TL4+. For lower TLs, Agi/Sense is still pretty easily twinked. Hell my 41 NM Trader had -zero- problem with Agi/Sense, a lot of it is how you plan/step your implants. Shades of Lucubration are one of the best twinking items available at low TLs, ridiculously easy to get on which frees up other armour slots for agi/sense. Lets not forget how easy to obtain and equip the Advanced Scent Sensor is now either. The Hud items are usable from TL3 onwards and VTEs are easy to get on at TL3 as well.

I'm not being TL7 elitist here, there's just really little need for it. Remember, the perks you spend in str/sta/int/psy/treatment are slots freed up for agi/sense.

The lower TLs are where twinking is still really fun. Don't ruin it.

[erozc]

A generic agi buffing perk line would just mean you have to redo the twinks on your lowbie toons (limited to those over the first perk lock level) again to be on the absolute top. It doesn't really make sense for there not to be a generic agi/sense buffing perk line, since there are freak str. and genius. If you argue these things would ruin twinking, how come you didn't complain about the sangi pads then?

[Hacre]

how come you didn't complain about the sangi pads then?

Well gee, possibly because the Sangi pads filled the no Agi/sense perk line hole?

*raises an eyebrow at your custom title* perhaps you should sell some of your own product to yourself.

[DaviasI]

Ehm

When did twinking suddenly become hard?

Wait, it was supposed to be easy!!?!!!? Darn it I missed that memo! Repost plz!

Lya patches, DB sleeves, DB pants, two ability buffing bracers, ability buffing hud in addition to eye of the evening stars/rings of divine teardrops, the latter of which aren't no drop, DB NCUs, LoX NCUs and god knows what else.

We need -more-?? What?

lets see...yep got all that and some other stuff...Agil plz still need more. I'm nanomage and agl/sense has always been the hardest for me to twink (though you'd think it would be str/stam).

[Hacre]

lets see...yep got all that and some other stuff...Agil plz still need more. I'm nanomage and agl/sense has always been the hardest for me to twink (though you'd think it would be str/stam).

No you don't, you're doing it wrong.

[erozc]

Well gee, possibly because the Sangi pads filled the no Agi/sense perk line hole?

No. By this logic VTEs / computing rings would mean there's no need for Genius. Except you could only get VTEs once a year and would probably have to settle for less than optimal QLs, so every twink you roll, you'd have to wait for up to a year. And people thought perk reset timers used to be bad. But then again, people would still need those pads...

I don't know what your real issue is, since it certainly isn't about lowbie twinking and 41 traders. Take a look at freak strength. If there was a perk line buffing similar amounts of agi/sense, unlocked at the same levels, how would it ruin lowbie twinking? That's right, it wouldn't, since the perks are unlocked at 120, 200 and 208.

In fact, I think that you're probably just afraid of endgame twinking becoming trivial to the point where it's the same as it is in other MMORPGs, except one has to visit the perk reset NPC first. Or, the other alternative is that you feel people don't deserve to get "free" stats since almost everything is possible endgame.

Personally, I don't have an agenda with this perk line suggestion, other than that I think it was originally quite stupid that a generic agi/sense perk line was not provided with the launch of SL. It makes sense to provide all three, regardless of there being some uber item that already gives you enough for all possible scenarios.

*raises an eyebrow at your custom title* perhaps you should sell some of your own product to yourself.

If you're going that way, it is quite possible that you should actually do what your own custom title says.

[Hacre]

No. By this logic VTEs / computing rings would mean there's no need for Genius. Except you could only get VTEs once a year and would probably have to settle for less than optimal QLs, so every twink you roll, you'd have to wait for up to a year. And people thought perk reset timers used to be bad. But then again, people would still need those pads...

Straw man argument, this is one. VTEs and Computing Rings existed since at least SL when the perk lines were implemented. Lyas stuff came later, you know, to fill the hole of harder Agi/Sense tweaking. Gee, that was hard to work through. A pair of top Agi rings gives 10 more Agi than RoCs give Int or Psy, same goes for Sense rings. I don't see any super easy to equip +60 int/psy/str/sta weapons either.

I don't know what your real issue is, since it certainly isn't about lowbie twinking and 41 traders. Take a look at freak strength. If there was a perk line buffing similar amounts of agi/sense, unlocked at the same levels, how would it ruin lowbie twinking? That's right, it wouldn't, since the perks are unlocked at 120, 200 and 208.

First time anyone suggested any sort of level locks for such a new perk line so I'm not quite sure why you're arguing at me as if someone did. In fact the only time levels were mentioned was when someone pointed out that my list of equipment that buffs agi/sense isn't available at lower levels. So that's where my point about lower levels came in. Since you're talking about 120+ well, at the very least there's SL rings available for buffing agi/sense, easier to obtain than rings of computing in regards to Rings of Divine Teardrops too.

In fact, I think that you're probably just afraid of endgame twinking becoming trivial to the point where it's the same as it is in other MMORPGs, except one has to visit the perk reset NPC first. Or, the other alternative is that you feel people don't deserve to get "free" stats since almost everything is possible endgame.

Afraid? Lol a bit of a strong emotion for an MMO. I might well be concerned that we've had a constant trend since just prior to LE of making symbiants easier and easier and easier and easier, the initial thought that it was because new symbiants would be coming well those new symbiants came and they were just as easy to equip as all other symbiants are. We're not that many suggestions like this one away from just removing stat requirements and right clicking once we ding the level requirement. With the history of twinking in AO yes I think people that spend of a bit of extra time obtaining equipment and putting effort into their toon should be able to equip things a little easier than people who don't or for that matter, have access to equip the best things at all over people who don't bother with any effort beyond the perk reset monkey. Same goes for non TL7 twinks, where the best twinks are those with the most effort put into them outside of a visit to the perk reset monkey.

Personally, I don't have an agenda with this perk line suggestion, other than that I think it was originally quite stupid that a generic agi/sense perk line was not provided with the launch of SL. It makes sense to provide all three, regardless of there being some uber item that already gives you enough for all possible scenarios.

Oh I see your agenda is to just argue for the sake of it then. Well my agenda when it comes to asking for new stuff is pretty much along the lines of "is it necessary?" when the only real reasons put forward in this thread so far are "well perk lines exist for other stats". Yes they do. What's next, asking for a castable on others buff that buffs every other stat just as much as IBehe buffs str/sta? Or a single stat buff for each base stat that buffs just as much as Prod Strength? Perhaps we should continue the slippery slope further and unlock all perks for everyone including perks from other professions and breed genomes and while we're at it, give that access to froobs too, you know in this interest of "fairness".

There was a time when you had choices to make in AO that actually influenced the outcome of your profession or certain aspects of it. People rolled Opifex for easier twinking, Atrox for extra HP/AR/MR perk, Nanomage for an easier time with nano/nanoskills and now the NM booster, Shades of Lucubration, etc.

With threads on the forums revolving around making such breed choices matter again as well as talking about nerfs to heal delta/nano delta so that breed choice again would matter for certain roles, it's stark contrast for threads like this that further takes away such breed choices, in this case the choice of Opifex. Especially when an absolute plethora of items already introduced makes such a request largely superficial, pointless and only serves to further take away from what is still unique to AO, the idea of twinking.

If you're going that way, it is quite possible that you should actually do what your own custom title says.

I do, often. I don't post on the forums when I'm in game anyway. Come on, try a little harder at least my thinly veiled semi insult to you was on topic.

[DaviasI]

No you don't, you're doing it wrong.

Wait? I wasn't supposed to farm every agil/sense item I could find to raise my stats so I could get that symb on? Darn it I hate when I make mistakes like that. Oh well maybe someone else can use the gear. The lya sangi patches only only available once a year so if I'm busy on RK4 during halloween that pretty much leaves me SOL for a year.

First time anyone suggested any sort of level locks for such a new perk line so I'm not quite sure why you're arguing at me as if someone did. In fact

Ah so here is the part of the misunderstanding. Since the original post mentioned Freak Strength, they were probably figuring it was implied that the level locks would be the same for the new agl/sen line. At least that's how I read it, it would be same only affecting the two stats that have always seemed mysteriously left out. So can we move past this part and just say the presumption is that if such a new line were created it will have the same high level locks and generally not effect lower level twinking, which would be OP.

I might well be concerned that we've had a constant trend since just prior to LE of making symbiants easier and easier and easier and easier, the initial thought that it was because new symbiants would be coming well those new symbiants came and they were just as easy to equip as all other symbiants are.

There is a difference between easy and possible. For a while it was nearly impossible to do a full set of intelligent symbiants (which is why the price on them was so cheap for ebag). The actual process to do it was only available to a few people in certain orgs (because required the towers to pull it off), which mean for the vast majority of players it was impossible.

LE comes along we get new symbiants and new stuff. Now its easier for more people to pop in full sets of top-end symbiants. Easy? No. Possible for a larger number of players? Definitely.

The only people I could say it would be easy for would be those who have already done 220 twinks and have the gear or those who have ridiculous amounts of creds to get people to farm the gear for them. Everyone else has to go farm the gear on their own and if you are a casual player that's going to take a long long while. I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying that it is.

With the history of twinking in AO yes I think people that spend of a bit of extra time obtaining equipment and putting effort into their toon should be able to equip things a little easier than people who don't or for that matter, have access to equip the best things at all over people who don't bother with any effort beyond the perk reset monkey. Same goes for non TL7 twinks, where the best twinks are those with the most effort put into them outside of a visit to the perk reset monkey.

I agree with this sentiment, but the addition of this perk won't change that much. I'm about to go through my final round of symbiant twinking (so I won't benefit from this perkline on my current toon). Which means if I make another 220 toon it will be much easier for them since I already have the gear, but that doesn't mean this new perk line wouldn't be appreciated. And at TL7, the odds of +20-40 agil/sen points OPing anyone is extremely small. But it would mean significantly less farming. Again it would be easier, but still not EASY.

Oh I see your agenda is to just argue for the sake of it then. Well my agenda when it comes to asking for new stuff is pretty much along the lines of "is it necessary?" when the only real reasons put forward in this thread
so far are "well perk lines exist for other stats". Yes they do.

Actually his reason for is as good as your reason for not wanting. The answer to which is right would depend on the need of the greater playerbase rather than those of us who argue in the forums. If FC checked the number of active 220's with sets of Xan symbs and found that only a small number of them actually had the Xan symbs in that would be a good reason to include it. If on the other hand FC found that there were a massive percentage of 220's who had full Xan symb sets (with agil/sense based ones on) that would be less reason to include the new perk line.

Or they could just do it the easy way and have a poll.

What's next, asking for a castable on others buff that buffs every other stat just as much as IBehe buffs str/sta? Or a single stat buff for each base stat

Yes, I know you are being sarcastic but I like that idea. I feel *extremely* sorry for the profession that would actually get such a buff. I'm sure they'd be as easy to find as an MP/trader in Borealis.

After all I believe it was mentioned that nothing was off the board. MMO's are about continual improvement of your character, whose is to say that FC doesn't have something in planning stages that requires more player power.

There was a time when you had choices to make in AO that actually influenced the outcome of your profession or certain aspects of it. People rolled Opifex for easier twinking, Atrox for extra HP/AR/MR perk, Nanomage for an easier time with nano/nanoskills and now the NM booster, Shades of Lucubration, etc.

Yep that's why I rolled Nanomage for my MP. Problem is time, player need, and game expansions have muddied the once clear lines between breeds that dominated the game pre-SL. A trox MP would have meant that I could take more damage but as a nanomage MP I got the better pet so things died faster. Now at end-game it really isn't that big a deal. Nanomages have more nanoskills than they need and a thanks to body dev a Trox MP will last about 1.5 seconds longer than a Nanomage or Opifex MP in a situation gone horribly wrong.

With threads on the forums revolving around making such breed choices matter again as well as talking about nerfs to heal delta/nano delta so that breed choice again would matter for certain roles, it's stark contrast for threads like this that further takes away such breed choices, in this case the choice of Opifex. Especially when an absolute plethora of items already introduced makes such a request largely superficial, pointless and only serves to further take away from what is still unique to AO, the idea of twinking.

While I agree that breed choices should definitely matter, I disagree that adding this perk will take away from the game. The twinking in AO is one of the reasons I find other MMO's boring. "Oh look I found the robe of awesomeness on my way to the next quest. Great now what can I do to make me even better? What do mean nothing for 10 levels? /camp"

[Hacre]

You really really don't need every possible twinking item in the game, on any breed, or buggering with contracts outside maybe a low level treatment contract for a full set of Xan Alphas any more.

You just don't. I've put enough of them in and helped others put them in to know. Especially not now with the perk reset monkey.

Hell I put 300s on an Opifex without a Burden. Come on, time was you -needed- a Burden just to put Cognizants on.

[Technogen]

Hacre, then you support removing all stat buffing perks?

Just because there are enough items in game for a 220 to get 1500 stats does not mean that its balanced though all TLs.

Sorry this thread is 100% correct, and balanced as there is no reason why only 4 of the 6 lines should get a perk line raising them.

The objective is to create something balanced, and for all you know those Items could be removed in the item update so that it IS hard again to get 300 symbs in. It would make complete sense, you can either keep your Alphas in and stay as you are and not get full advantage of the changes or you can take them out use the FIPR and deal with twinking them back in again.

Right now we're talking perks though not items, and on the balance line having an Agi/sense perk line is balanced.

[Xyphos]

wow, most of the posters on page 2 totally missed the point of the OP.

these purposed perk additions aren't ment for TL7 only or putting in xan symbs,
(tho it would help greatly in this area)
these purposed perk additions were intended for any TL to use provided that the player meets the criteria for training them.

this means, lower level twinks without needing stat-buffing items that drop only once a year. (but those items help too...)

so in short, you'll have more lower level twinks and player action regardless of profession
and during haloween, even better twinks.

[erozc]

Straw man argument, this is one. VTEs and Computing Rings existed since at least SL when the perk lines were implemented. Lyas stuff came later, you know, to fill the hole of harder Agi/Sense tweaking. Gee, that was hard to work through. A pair of top Agi rings gives 10 more Agi than RoCs give Int or Psy, same goes for Sense rings. I don't see any super easy to equip +60 int/psy/str/sta weapons either.

And iBehe or Lya sleeves (for clams) give additional str/stam because there isn't a generic buffing perk line for those stats? BBQ pillows exist since there actually is no Ambidextrous perk line?

First time anyone suggested any sort of level locks for such a new perk line so I'm not quite sure why you're arguing at me as if someone did. In fact the only time levels were mentioned was when someone pointed out that my list of equipment that buffs agi/sense isn't available at lower levels. So that's where my point about lower levels came in. Since you're talking about 120+ well, at the very least there's SL rings available for buffing agi/sense, easier to obtain than rings of computing in regards to Rings of Divine Teardrops too.

Yes, all 3 perks (three since it was supposed to be comparable to genius and freak str) were of course supposed to be unlocked at level 1. Wait, maybe one could analyze the idea, comparing it to the already existing perk lines. +5/+8 agi at level 120, or even level 60, that's definitely going to ruin twinking.

There's rings of essence / endurance as well which are quite easy to obtain and equip, and don't have a title level lock either. Granted the effect is smaller, but it's easier to get a higher QL in.

the best twinks are those with the most effort put into them outside of a visit to the perk reset monkey.

This wouldn't change only the fact that new challenges would be possible for twinks and the existing ones would have to consider whether to retwink or not.

Oh I see your agenda is to just argue for the sake of it then. Well my agenda when it comes to asking for new stuff is pretty much along the lines of "is it necessary?" when the only real reasons put forward in this thread so far are "well perk lines exist for other stats". Yes they do. What's next, asking for a castable on others buff that buffs every other stat just as much as IBehe buffs str/sta? Or a single stat buff for each base stat that buffs just as much as Prod Strength? Perhaps we should continue the slippery slope further and unlock all perks for everyone including perks from other professions and breed genomes and while we're at it, give that access to froobs too, you know in this interest of "fairness".

If you look at it that way, I suppose nothing is necessary. Changing AS isn't necessary either since everyone can use it. Things move on, embrace change, old timer, or you might be left on the station and the train's already gone. On fairness, why don't you go ahead and make a thread on your suggestions about adding the other stuff you described and we can discuss those obviously unrelated suggestions there.

There was a time when you had choices to make in AO that actually influenced the outcome of your profession or certain aspects of it. People rolled Opifex for easier twinking, Atrox for extra HP/AR/MR perk, Nanomage for an easier time with nano/nanoskills and now the NM booster, Shades of Lucubration, etc.

With threads on the forums revolving around making such breed choices matter again as well as talking about nerfs to heal delta/nano delta so that breed choice again would matter for certain roles, it's stark contrast for threads like this that further takes away such breed choices, in this case the choice of Opifex. Especially when an absolute plethora of items already introduced makes such a request largely superficial, pointless and only serves to further take away from what is still unique to AO, the idea of twinking.

Because people wouldn't roll Opifex if there was something like +20 to +40 more agi/sense available at various levels? Nothing, bar Tech's unlikely suggestion above, is gonna bring back times when top 220s had varying QLs of symbs depending on breed choice, there pretty much only exist a few select prof/breed combinations where alphas are impossible. Actually, when talking about twinks this sort of perk line might actually benefit Opis since new interesting twinking opportunities might open up for them. Nobody's claiming that Luxurious Rubber Pants are easy on a level 75 NM MP even though they have genius 1 and Shades of Lucubration. Why would Opis be extinct as twinks, then?

Bottom line: such a perk line wouldn't ruin twinking. An item that drops once a year isn't comparable to a perk line one can click. Furthermore, such a perk line wouldn't obsolete said items at all.

Finally, if you want to insult me, on topic or not, you can PM me or send hate tells in game.

Lots of stuff

Too long to quote but I pretty much concur.