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Thread: Doc Weapons For Newbs - A Guide

  1. #1

    Doc Weapons For Newbs - A Guide

    We've gotten a lot of these questions lately and a lot of the people complain that there's no good information out there on the subject. Personally I disagree with that but I've got some time on my hands so I figured I'd outline some of the common lowbie weapon choices for docs in an effort to head off the creation of more of the same posts...


    Before we start I suggest you read The Bible for doctors, within it's pages you will find all the information you may need (including the fact that the general consensus is that docs shouldn't use any weapons at all before 150, but we'll just ignore that for now ).

    Also check out this thread about weapons. "But they're all about end game weapons" you say, and "why should I waste my time reading that when I'm level 5" you say. Simply put it's more efficient to simply pick one weapon route and walk down that road, so figure out what weapon you want to use in the end game and then go from there .

    Alright, onto the meat of the subject...


    Martial Arts: This can actually be quite effective in the low to mid-levels (losing effectiveness after that). In fact I've heard tell of (though never met) a doc who apparently used MA all the way up into Shadow Levels. Some of the bonuses to this are it's fairly cheap on the IP and it's easy on the creds (don't have to go out and buy weapons/ammo, etc.). And besides I'm sure everyone has wanted to be Bruce Lee at some point or other (although why you'd choose to be Bruce Lee as a doc is a little beyond me ). Oh and there's also this thread in the stickies about being a MA doc...

    PS: Don't bother collecting a lot of the MA special attacks (such as the ones that drop in ToTW) as they were nerfed to be MA only a while back

    Pistols: Probably the most common choice for docs and probably the one that I'd recommend. Damage will be a bit lower than some of the other options, but other nice options do open up. Pistols to keep an eye out for would be The Original Electronicums (think you can buy these in SL, otherwise players usually have them in their shops), Flux Pistols (drop in SL, not really the best choice at low levels because they're so slow), at level 41 go get a CDR, also be on the look out for a QL 51 Worn Soft Pepper Pistol great buffing gun .

    1HE: This can be a good choice, although it's a bit more expensive on the IP and can involve some serious camping. Some options would be the swords sold by The Melee Smith (although I'm not sure if they're prof restricted, can't quite remember ). What you really want to find though are some Phase Blades from ToTW and then get some Tears off of Uklesh, expect to camp long and hard for those though

    2HE: This is often the choice of lowbie doc twinks. 2HE docs can do absolutely sick damage at lower levels and the best part of it is that the weapons are free . I'm of course talking about a couple of ToTW standby's, namely the Energy Scythe, the Lego Scythe and the big daddy of them all, The Stygian Desolator. There's also a thread about this in the stickies.

    Shotguns: If you want to PvP Shotgun is the choice for you. "Why" you ask? Because some shotguns have Aimed Shot, which is the be all and end all of PvP in it's current form. If you're going to use shotgun then go and get yourself a Ithaca or a Vektor or a Home Defender. Also check out this from the stickies. Once you hit 125 take a trip to IS and grab a Maw, that'll last you until you can get a higher QL Kyr shottie on .

    These are the main choices for lowbie doc weapons. There are, of course, other possibilities (take a look at threads like this or this and you'll see what I mean.


    Someone suggested I include a little blurb about this, which is a good idea. Really though I'm not the greatest twinker and others have covered twinking methods better than I ever could have. So rather than rehash what they've all said I figure I'll just provide some links to their guides. First off our very own Disq and his guide on Equiping Weapons v3 Beta. Full of useful information geared towards docs.

    Secondly is a great twinking guide by Old Man Gigas. While aimed at enforcers this is still full of great tips and tricks .

    A few things that I will say. Always, always, always get the best implants you possibly can, it'll make your life much easier. Don't neglect to get ability buffs, Essence of Behemoth will add something like 4 points to your 2he skill just through trickle down. Alien Armor has made twinking much easier, however since this is a meant as a guide for newbs I'm assuming none of you'll have access to that so I won't mention it.

    Anyways, that's it for now, I might add more later if I feel up to the challenge....


    Lastly I feel I would be remiss not to say that personally I strongly believe that the best weapon for a baby doc is his (or her) team mates. Docs will not have decent AR until much later on in their lives, this means that any weapon which they do use will be siginificantly reduced in effectiveness. This is why so many people will say that you're better off not using a weapon until late TL5.

    If, however, you are dead set on using a weapon then the ones listed above are all good choices and hopefully you'll find them helpful .

    Edited to include Maw in the shotguns
    Last edited by Harrington; Aug 10th, 2005 at 20:55:05.
    Just Another Player Who's Moved On To Greener Pastures...and then come crawling back

  2. #2
    thats one sweet guide, should be rooted so new docs get their answer responded at once - without making like 100 new posts about the same thing a month
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  3. #3
    hai, wut wpn shld i use as dox plz?

    Nice guide! Sticky sticky!

  4. #4
    wut wepun to uz for me trox doc plx? I r retard cant read (why'd you think I rolled trox!)
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  5. #5
    nice and easy to read

    please add maw to the list of shottys tho
    Last edited by Plasmologist; Aug 6th, 2005 at 02:54:56.

  6. #6
    I'll add this to the stickies at the top
    Kacey "Regidoc" Stych
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  7. #7
    Good guide, gives answers to most FAQ's
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  8. #8


    This is largely what I think some of us were asking for.

    A few additions:

    - The MA guide for docs mentioned is good, but a bit outdated. Many of the good MA attacks have now been nerfed as Martial Artist Profession only - so don't waste your time gathering everything for "Tree of Enlightenment" as outlined in the guide [as I learned, to my frustration...]

    - I'd agree 98% that your team is your best weapon as a Doc, espec. at lower levels. I *never* equip a weapon while on a team, it's just makes it harder for the team to manage aggro. The 2% disagreement is based on (in my experience - your milage may vary) the need to occasionally solo to get a specific item or objective. Having an item that does *reasonable* (read: not uber) damage for a lvl 50 - 120 Doc is essential. DoTs at that level are really under-powered, even when you combine strains A and B and debuf init correctly.

    Anybody else with suggestion for playing a non-twinked Doc at this level, they'd be appreciated. We all know that a lot of this game is 'undocumented', which is why those of you with lots of experience get pestered all the time .

    Thanks again for getting this down in a nice, organized way, Harrington.

  9. #9
    Excellent guide!!!

    Just as a suggestion, if we're suggesting this for newbie docs as well, why not copy the "Equipping Weapons v2" and suggest methods of equipping specific weapons (i.e what buffs to get, implant slots) and also a level that the weapons become effective, or (in the case of the Maw for instance) the level at which it is equippable.

    The v2 thread is good, but a little outdated I think. Most of the weapons it lists have their "reccomended level" at a lot higher than is possible/good to equip.

    The Maw is equippable and non-OE at around 130, pretty much the same with the Snakemaster.

    MBC is equippable at a good bit lower than 211. I've seen it as low as 206 and I know Regidoc did it at around 209 (and I distantly remember suffering the wrath of 7 second special recharge =P) and etc
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  10. #10
    Might I suggest a ( looted ) Ritual Krys Knife for ultra-low ( I got hold of a 160ish, reqs are 1 in each skill, it did 115 crits at level 6 with outside buffed comps ), and in the same vein a pair of notum infused silvertail daggers ( piercing weaps, but low enough to be implanted to get them on ) which are recommended shade weapons up to level 30 or so... should take me over the initial hump. Been soloing full hard missions with no difficulty.

  11. #11
    You might also consider piercing weapons. Especially on an Opifex doc, they are quite doable throughout the Doc's life. A Kyr'Ozch spear will serve in various QLs and has the added bonus of being quick, fair damage, and no specials, making it cheap on IP as you don't need to invest in anything but the weapon skill iteself. Piercing bright and shining clusters also don't conflict with anything and give you ability to have AAD jobe clusters in both the right and left arms, making survivability much easier/better. Once you get into the TL5 cap and start looking seriously at upgrading a weapon, you can move to either a Type 112 spear, or dual-wield rapiers, look like a shade, don't get asked for SFA... The Aleksander's Punchknife also drops fairly regularly from Generals/Admirals if you are doing raids, and usually rots there as it is nodrop. That will give you a fast attack special at fairly low IP cost, without spending an arm and a leg for weapon upgrades.
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  12. #12

  13. #13

    The only choice

    If you're not going pistols for buffing reasons there really is no better choice for a noob then 2he. 2he is extremely cheap. 2he and Fast Attack don't conflict with nano skills on implants and require a minimum ip investment of 350ish melee init, minimal FA and maxing 2he every level. CDR's are about 100x harder to get then comparable 2he weapons for the newer player.

    Start off with a Ql10-13 Kry'Ozch Sword after you get off noob island. The're easily bought for 20k or so and that shouldn't be a problem if you farm a few concrete cushions at lvl 10-11. At lvl 35 you should be able to equip a Frost Scythe with a wrangle and at 45-50 the Stygian is possible. With 350ish melee init the Styg rules for Doc weapons up till Elly Hecks/Borgs when the minimum damage of the Frost Scythe takes over as your best bet. Another benefit of the Styg is that it's such good damage you won't have to use ip's for Matter Creation, since even while solo'ing the Styg is very effective. Also if you plan on using Gelids (or pretty much any other melee weapon) in your higher levels you'll only have to use 1 IPR to get out of 2he.

    I was quite pleased with the Styg/Scythe combo till I finally switched to Frost Shards (1he) at lvl 151. 100 levels of quality damage outa those 2 free weapons with only 1 ipr used - what more could you ask for?

  14. #14
    I am 170ish and still dont use a weapons..most times.
    Really useful guide....
    I have a trox doc thinking of continuing with 2he but he's been sleeping for a long time now and still a baby at lvl20ish and considering ungimping to pvp.
    My healing doc had 2 cdr and ip spent on pistol..but cant make up his mind just yet to max either fling shot or burst or both.
    Rest of the times he loves running around with "pillow with important stripes" to feel important but disguised as a wolf.
    Zhakkari 219/16 Doc...not fun to play
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Felianni
    CDR's are about 100x harder to get then comparable 2he weapons for the newer player.
    Yes, but there are still alternatives. In addition to pistols already mentioned, may I recommend the very underrated SOL K-91 line? Easily huntable by yourself (find a dyna you can pull and kill) and usually quite cheap on markets (I've bought one for about 100k before) because everyone who can afford better is going for those CDRs/Kyr'ozch/Flux/blahblah pistols.
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  16. #16
    Sure, the're always alternatives but imo if you want a weapon that's very high dmg, very low cost, high longevity, easy ip expenditures, and is easy to aquire go 2he

    I still don't understand why folks go without a weapon. Does +10 BM/MM and 300 nano, or even +25 BM/MM/MC, really make that much difference? Those are certainly nice stats but to give up self defense, soloability, and contributing damage in a team just doesn't seem worth it. Considering how easy it is to get a 4 hour long CI. Considering the difference +10 (or even 25) BM/MM is often a very minimum difference in heals(wuwu I heal 35 more dmg then you!!). Considering you'd prolly never need that 300 nano if you were killing critters much faster (100+x faster if you're solo and the difference between being 3rd or 4th to 6th on a team). It just doesn't seem worth it. Perhaps after lvl 175 when you're trying to squeeze into the next SL heal/DoT but no way before then it's just selling yourself short. If the chalices or pillows added PM it might be a viable alternative for better slows but they don't :/

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Felianni
    I still don't understand why folks go without a weapon. Does +10 BM/MM and 300 nano, or even +25 BM/MM/MC, really make that much difference?

    I look at the chalice this way. I never solo, I always have a team. I have nothing I need to solo for my org mates will help me get anything I may need. In a team XP comes much faster then soloing and teams are easy to get as a doc, plus most of the time I am with org members in my team.

    Now for the stats of the Chalice. Lets look at it this way.

    First I look at weapons as another thing to move you up the hate list and pull agro. Granted Enf should be able to keep agro off you but sometimes with a bad pull that's not the case. So, weapons = possible agro, which can leave you dead followed by team death.

    Second I look at extra nano as HP. At lower lvl's it is common to run out of nano, especially levels that you are first getting the chalice. +300 to Max Nano means about 2 more heals at lvl 60ish. 2 heals = about 1200 HP at that level(not positive on these numbers but it's around there).

    So if you look at it as "It's only +10 BM/MM which means 20 HP more a heal." Sure it looks pretty bad. I see that arguement far to often and it doesn't hold any ground. It's not 20HP more. It's more like 1200 HP more that can be transfered to anyone not just yourself.

    Show me a weapon that you can twink on at even lvl 100 that allows you to transfer 1200 HP to anyone in your group. Since Doc's are a support profession. I prefer to be as good of a support person as I can be. Allowing me to heal for 1200 more HP before I run out of nano gives me a big advantage over a Doc using weapons. This is of course worse case situation, but I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    Having weapons may help my team kill a little faster for faster XP. If they are dieing due to me not being able to heal though means a lot less XP and maybe trying to find a new team.

    My 2 cents.

    Edit: At lower lvl's there were lots of times where I was running out of ammo. The cut of for when Chalice starts to become less usefull is questionable. I haven't ran out of nano for awhile now at lvl 102. Even fighting hecks in a team with a bad pull. I die before my nano runs out.
    Last edited by Oriqx; Sep 15th, 2005 at 16:03:04.

  18. #18
    I think the stickied thread with all the guides should be in bold red, size 12 letters, preferably even bigger.. maybe that way someone would actually read them?
    Neophyte "Ruberaa" 5/0 - lolequip

  19. #19
    I never solo, I always have a team. I have nothing I need to solo for my org mates will help me get anything I may need.
    Really? I can get teams pretty quickly but it's nice to be able to earn xp while waiting for or forming a group. And maybe it's just me, but I'd hate to be so non selfsufficient that I'd have to ask orgmates to help me get everything I needed. I can't imagine asking others to help me do basic things like missions/cru missions, cred farming, item camping or quests.

    First I look at weapons as another thing to move you up the hate list and pull agro. Granted Enf should be able to keep agro off you but sometimes with a bad pull that's not the case. So, weapons = possible agro, which can leave you dead followed by team death.
    The only thing that ever gets me agro is slow and that's more of an issue of having to cast it as soon as possible, not because it adds a lot of hate (a nice feature of AO).

    Second I look at extra nano as HP. At lower lvl's it is common to run out of nano, especially levels that you are first getting the chalice. +300 to Max Nano means about 2 more heals at lvl 60ish. 2 heals = about 1200 HP at that level(not positive on these numbers but it's around there).
    You're absolutly right, that nano is more healing. But how often do any of us run out of nano? I can think of once when a team I was on pulled 5 borgs and I was kiting 3 of'em. After I said I was out of nano the team stimmed me back to half nano wich was sufficient to outlast the bad pull. It'd have been cool to have more nano for that one situation, but there's no way in hell I'd give up the functionality that a weapon gives for a situation that arises so incredibly infrequently.

    If a doc is having a problem (even a untwinked noobie) running out of nano I would tend to believe it was a nano management problem before it was a lack of nano.

  20. #20
    Ever fight Azture with a group? I fought him about 20 times trying to get book and helping members of my org. Everytime I fought him i had a nano problem and that was with having the chalice equiped.

    Also everyone doesn't always have an Enf in the group. You take on 4 or so mobs at once and you will have agro during the fight. Nano becomes an issue then since it's a lot harder to regen nano when in combat. Also I like to save my stims for extra heals on the Tank because that means you can fight harder mobs and save nano.

    Once I hit around lvl 85ish I would say. Nano became less of an issue. I haven't ran out for ages. At lvl 35ish when I had the chalice equiped that extra nano came in handy a lot.

    When I'm in a hecks team now. Nano isn't an issue either. That however is because I am sitting timing my heals between pulses of nano rechagers so a weapon is useless there too. If **** hits the fan I have 300 extra nano during the fight that if needed is there, though i have never needed it.

    As for org members helping me get things I need. Since my nanos I was using at lvl 80ish were ql.130ish I don't think I would have been soloing 130ish missons anyways so having org mates help me still would have been an issue. My implants at that level an org member helped me get. once again i don't think i could have been doing 150ish misons at lvl 80. Guns still wouldn't have helped me there.

    Armor I bought, just using basic carb because storm carb sucks. Used money from loot I got while hunting to buy that.

    So a need to solo hasn't been an issue. Sure it would be nice at times to have that ability but I sacrifice my needs for the team. IMO the needs of me being the best healer I can be are far better for the team.

    It all comes down to personal preference. You can't however argue that chalice is useless because as I said at lvl 50-60 you will find nothing with the potential giving 1200 HP to any member of the team. Being the lone healer in a Aztur group, you WILL need that extra nano.

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