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Thread: Results of 1k+ AMS Multiplier Testing

  1. #1

    Results of 1k+ AMS Multiplier Testing

    First off, very big thanks to Kaelien for helping me with this testing, she did a little over half of these numbers with her toon while I recorded the results. Rest were done myself, and with a few contributions from Revelator. Also thanks to Faolrin on RK-2 for providing some crat AMS buffs.

    With that said, I have fairly complete results for most of the domain between 1000-2100 AMS for people to browse... The "general rule" is that Advents were at 1/3rd multiplier, which isn't too far from the truth. However, it seems that it is really made up of 3 linear progressions, all with slightly different start and end values.

    Advents hover from 40% at the start, to around 30% at the end. In this thread is the raw data, as well as a graph for those a bit more math-oriented...

    To explain the graph:
    The y-axis (bottom to top) is the "loss"--e.g. how many points of AMS are subtracted from your starting value.
    The x-axis (left to right) is the AMS, with the starting 1000 subtracted as it doesn't matter. (100 = 1100, etc..)

    Visually, the higher on the y-axis, the more the scale on both axis' is the same, 100% loss is represented wherever the equal values intersect. (Such as the top or bottom corners, or any matching gridlines, 800/800, etc)

    You will notice there are two charts.. one is the "raw" chart, that plots every testing point I have gathered data for and draws a smoothed line between each point.

    The chart on the right is the same data, only broken up into three different sections which seem to represent the areas which have their own multiplier. As you can see, the multiplier seems to change around 1450, and also around 1975. These sections are broken up in the left-hand chart, with a formula for the plotted line above (matching color) and the coefficient of determination (R-squared) of that trendline--the closer this value is to 1, the more accurate it is at pridicting the values on the trendline.

    The chart can be found here:

    The raw test values are as follows:
    Old AMS	New AMS Percent
    1051	1020	40.09%
    1101	1040	40.04%
    1125	1048	38.76%
    1181	1075	41.27%
    1409	1166	40.59%
    1455	1177	38.97%
    1465	1179	38.57%
    1475	1182	38.32%
    1485	1185	38.08%
    1509	1189	37.20%
    1549	1199	36.31%
    1579	1206	35.58%
    1600	1212	35.33%
    1610	1213	34.97%
    1673	1223	33.18%
    1738	1234	31.71%
    1754	1237	31.39%
    1810	1245	30.29%
    1833	1249	29.93%
    1853	1253	29.62%
    1918	1263	28.61%
    1921	1263	28.57%
    1946	1267	28.19%
    1961	1272	28.30%
    1976	1280	28.69%
    1996	1290	29.09%
    2021	1301	29.51%
    2066	1323	30.27%
    2131	1354	31.28%
    2141	1359	31.47%
    2181	1368	31.16%
    This is still a work in progress, but I am fairly certain given the wide range of tests so far that the numbers presented give a pretty good overall picture of the "profession multipliers" for Advents.

    I'm currently working on gathering data for the other professions as well, but Advents are probably the furthest along here. My Solider and Agent charts are nearly complete, and will be released soon.

    Hopefully this will prove to be useful data for the time being, and give a a better idea of what your "true" AMS is at any given time.

    I will be trying to integrate this into my damage simulator as soon as possible, but I would like to get a few more profession figures done before I do so.

    Comments and feedback are welcome.


  2. #2
    Oh nice work guys.

    Interesting that it almost plateaus at approximately the 1900 mark.
    What I dont understand is the sharp dip to 28.19% after that followed by the rise. I would have imagined it stays plateau or a very gradual curve.
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  3. #3
    Great work guys. This is nice info to have.

    1 question related to the AMS multiplier. The AR shown in our GUIs are what you call the Old AMS, we can use your chart to estimate our real AMS. But, any idea if the weapons that got MBS tag use the Old or real AMS? Im pretty sure its the visual AR that counts vs the MBS.

    Why cant our real AMS be shown anyways, why hide it?
    Last edited by Askeladden; Feb 4th, 2004 at 14:45:51.

  4. #4
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

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  5. #5
    Originally posted by Askeladden
    Great work guys. This is nice info to have.

    1 question related to the AMS multiplier. The AR shown in our GUIs are what you call the Old AMS, we can use your chart to estimate our real AMS. But, any idea if the weapons that got MBS tag use the Old or real AMS? Im pretty sure its the visual AR that counts vs the MBS.

    Why cant our real AMS be shown anyways, why hide it?
    First, i dont think the effective AMS actually "hidden". FC just didnt update the GUI.

    As to the MBS cap, well, i didnt notice any change in dmg during my Shadowlevels ( nothing coming from AR anyway ). If it was the visible AR that counts, Gelids would cap at about 1600. Since you always hit for min on Hecklers, even the slightest change would be apearant.
    That indicates it would be the visible AR counting towards the MBS.

  6. #6
    I doubt there even is a concept of old and new AMS in the game. The discussion is only about comparing to old days.

    Your AMS is what's written in the Status Window. There is nothing called Old or New AMS in game. It's the formula that changed, not your AMS.

    The only smart implementation of the AMS formula is for FC to pregenerate a lookup table based on profession and AMS value. That's the multiplier.

    Don't believe that FC kept the old formula inside game and then do some math to translate the current AMS to a new "hidden" AMS before applying the formula.

    Jayde, is it possible to get the raw numbers so I can put them into my own spreadsheets?
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  7. #7
    Perhaps that's true Afelia, perhaps not. Honestly--from a coding standpoint--it seems like it would be easier to leave the existing code in-tact (which probably exisits all over the place) and simply apply a linear-scale multiplier on any AMS post-1k to modify the value. Least work, least time.

    Also, the "old" formula still applies to half of the AMS scale, so--from the standpoint of comparison--presenting it in terms of "old" and "new" is the most straightforward method, IMO.

    Additionally, it makes it much easier to compare profession-to-profession by translating the numbers back to their previous form.. otherwise, you have a mess of different "multipliers" to consider and whatnot.

    Really, it doesn't matter if you look at it in terms of (AMS * X) / 400 or AMS / (X) or AMS / (400 * X).. the end result is the same.

    Weather or not FC views it this way--or made the changes this way--I'm not sure.. however, most players think of it this way as the old AMS scale is something that almost everyone is familiar with--and even still applies for all the pre-1k period. Players already compare by saying "1/3rd" or "1/4th" to adjust the value in their head, and bring it to a common level--so, this seems like the most logical way for me to present the data at the moment.

    Last edited by Jayde; Feb 5th, 2004 at 03:09:28.

  8. #8
    Man, I can't believe I actually got a mention in that uber post!
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  9. #9
    Can't wait to see soldier chart , awesome effort and research Jayde.
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  10. #10
    Jayde i think you do too much work for the communtiy. Keep it up because I would be semi lost without it.
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  11. #11
    While testing the MEP(no MBS) today i found that every 20 points of AR added it's min dmg went up by 1pt. Incase you might need that for futher testing.
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  12. #12
    yeh really nice work you 2

  13. #13
    huge newb question but, what is AMS?

  14. #14
    Well since no one can answer you that, i would say that your not a noob, i played this game since beta and i know alot about how ao works, but some ppl
    (new players) starting to use new "shortcut" names like RS. I dont know what RS is, but ppl like to call Runspeed for RS.. (i must be nuub) but runspeed is runspeed.

    There is no such thing as AMS in AO so it must be a abridgment for someting else.
    Crats cant buff "AMS" thay can buff Attack Rate with All off witch add the all off value as it would be your primiry attcak skill, i cant under stand how AMS can be all off line or attack rated. only explonation i have to what AMS is = Ammo magazine size.

    But i think since this is a sticky tread that the proffesonal shud
    explant what the heck thay are talking about. Does nummbers just dont
    tell s...

    To be able to hit a monster or player there are 3 things that comes to the math.
    1. your level vs mob level, 2. your attack rate. 3. the player/mobs defance skills

    in gerneal the Attack rate is determined what % you hit / miss, and there are
    randome numbers.

    Also to be able to counter other attacks your defance skill(duck,avade,range)
    must be dubble than the others attack skill. Not takeing randome numbers in to mind.

    The game mechanics are not very complicated, there are randome values..but thay are just immaterial in my eyes..

    Last and finly Hand! = have a nice day..
    Last edited by Recaster; Nov 7th, 2004 at 16:19:54.

  15. #15
    Ammo Magazine Skill isn't a bad guess

    But, I believe it is an acronym for "Attack Modifier Statistic" (correct me if I'm wrong Jayde )
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  16. #16
    AMS and DMS are the Stats (used in game) to reprisent your attack rating and defence rating. Whilst AMS is the exact value you see as your "attack rating" DMS is your Evades + Add All Defence I believe?.

    In regards to the change in AMS and when it's recorded, I'd think it would be a scale in the coding, rather than something AO stores as and when your AR/AMS changes. Simply due to the fact that the game uses the "old" or visable AMS to determine hit/miss (I assume totally due to the fact that, it's got to be easier to do that, than change the DMS of every mob on Ruby Ka to Match)
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  17. #17
    Edit: After a bit of research, here's what DMS is:

    DMS: Evades + AddAllDef
    AMS: Weapon Skill + AddAllOff

    then, the AMS vs. DMS checks are done.
    Last edited by Kaelien; Nov 22nd, 2004 at 23:12:38.
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  18. #18
    i guess those charts arent there anymore becoause i cant open the page is there a new page where u put them /me wants to see them
    Played since 04, never had a 220.
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  19. #19
    I thought this could use an update, so...

     AR      Multiplier    Rounded
    2000	4.229357798	4.23	29.17%
    2050	4.288990826	4.29	30.06%
    2100	4.348623853	4.35	30.86%
    2150	4.408256881	4.41	31.59%
    2200	4.426605505	4.43	30.89%
    2250	4.486238532	4.49	31.56%
    2300	4.536697248	4.54	31.90%
    2350	4.596330275	4.60	32.48%
    2400	4.637614679	4.64	32.50%
    2450	4.678899083	4.68	32.52%
    2500	4.697247706	4.70	31.93%
    2550	4.715596330	4.72	31.37%
    2600	4.738532110	4.74	30.96%
    2650	4.756880734	4.76	30.47%
    2700	4.779816514	4.78	30.11%
    2750	4.825688073	4.83	30.30%
    2800	4.876146789	4.88	30.58%
    2850	4.926605505	4.93	30.85%
    2900	5.000000000	5.00	31.58%
    2950	5.027522936	5.03	31.33%
    3000	5.059633028	5.06	31.19%
    3050	5.096330275	5.10	31.15%
    3100	5.155963303	5.16	31.54%
    3150	5.215596330	5.22	31.92%
    3200	5.256880734	5.26	31.94%
    3250	5.298165138	5.30	31.97%
    3300	5.348623853	5.35	32.15%
    3350	5.366972477	5.37	31.78%
    3400	5.389908257	5.39	31.50%
    3450	5.399082569	5.40	31.01%
    3500	5.426605505	5.43	30.83%
    3501+	5.449541284	5.45	31.18%
    		       average: 31.29%
    And yep, AR does stop adding damage after 3501. Sure hope that gets fixed before the new weapons with 3600 MBS planned for patch 22.4! (btw, they are really ugly)

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