credit degradation: make credits slowly disappear over time

[Manaas]

catcrab is right, its better to scale down the total amount of creds down to a sensible level where rk missions or classic cred farming methods can not only maintain your cred supply but add to it.

a basic level 100 rk mish will net you something like 100k if you sell everything and kill every mob, if the person had a fortune of 1m that would be a lot of money to them. For someone with 10bil, what is 100k really?

[Manaas]

lets not forget if you have 1 billion and i have 5 billion over 5 toons i am going to lose credits at 5x the rate because the money is split over 5 toons

you're getting punished for ruining the games economy, well deserved imo.

[thecheeseman]

lets not forget if you have 1 billion and i have 5 billion over 5 toons i am going to lose credits at 5x the rate because the money is split over 5 toons

no you dont. u lose at same rate. any way you cut it u still end up with 4.5 bil

[Nihilaos]

NO THEY CANNOT DO IT AGAIN. thats why farmers are truly, genuinely afraid when they see suggestions like this.
ingots no longer drop from hecklers and credit sploiting methods are found and fixed. you can never create billions of credits out of thin air ever again

If this is true, why is it that when I stopped playing the game several years ago, a DChest or RBP was 500 million and now is over 1.5 billion credits? I stopped playing some time after ingots stopped dropping, and you'll have me believe that in that time prices experienced a 300% inflation based solely on mythical "exploits," and it has nothing to do with the complete lack of money sinks?

Does anyone even buy anything from a shop (other than a player shop) other than ammo after level 80 or 90?

If taxation is such a great idea and building in optional money sinks is a terrible idea and no one will buy them, why has one system never been leveraged successfully in a major mmo and the other has?

[tweeeek]

no you dont. u lose at same rate.

i missworded that

i ment i would lose credits 5x as fast which is fine by me

it also means credits will normalize at lower levels faster

[Ayria]

the ratio will NOT be 10:1. it will slowly get smaller as the billions are impossible to maintain because they were not obtained fairly but were exploited or left over from ingot days

But you remove from the others too which means making 100K becomes harder then it is now just as making 1 billion would become harder. Everyone loses relatively the same amount of money the ratio remains. You have to take from the rich and not touch the poor in order to close the gap and that is hardly fair to those that got their money legitimately.

If I farm lead bots and sell them that money is legitimate, yes it may have originally been created in world by ingots or some exploit but I got them legitimately; does that mean I deserve to be treated like exploiters and lose my hard earned superiority?

[tweeeek]

If this is true, why is it that when I stopped playing the game several years ago, a DChest or RBP was 500 million and now is over 1.5 billion credits? I stopped playing some time after ingots stopped dropping, and you'll have me believe that in that time prices experienced a 300% inflation based solely on mythical "exploits," and it has nothing to do with the complete lack of money sinks?

there was a exploit a certain rk2 clan enf used to gain credits (as well as some others)

i would say this generated at the very least 20b just by him not counting others too

[thecheeseman]

If this is true, why is it that when I stopped playing the game several years ago, a DChest or RBP was 500 million and now is over 1.5 billion credits? I stopped playing some time after ingots stopped dropping, and you'll have me believe that in that time prices experienced a 300% inflation based solely on mythical "exploits," and it has nothing to do with the complete lack of money sinks?

credits never leave the population, getting consolidated into fewer and fewer players. think about it.
the exploit was well known and was acknowledged on the ao updates forum.

Does anyone even buy anything from a shop (other than a player shop) other than ammo after level 80 or 90??

ammo costs 50k a box. 2 billion minus 50k is approximately equal to... 2 billion

If taxation is such a great idea and building in optional money sinks is a terrible idea and no one will buy them, why has one system never been leveraged successfully in a major mmo and the other has?

taxation IS a money sink

[thecheeseman]

making 100K becomes harder

rofl. i made 150k just by looting cultists at totw.

If I farm lead bots and sell them that money is legitimate, yes it may have originally been created in world by ingots or some exploit but I got them legitimately; does that mean I deserve to be treated like exploiters and lose my hard earned superiority?

i said obtained unfairly and illegetamately. selling ingots for billions, then for years having 100 to 1000x the amount of credits of new players is unfair and needs removal.

i missworded that
i ment i would lose credits 5x as fast which is fine by me
it also means credits will normalize at lower levels faster

ty for the support

i would say this generated at the very least 20b just by him not counting others too

remember cred selling companies have teams and teams of farmers. if they knew that method, they could make much much more than 20b.
in many countries credit farmers work as slaves, in china there is a popular method of locking them up in a room and try to brainwash them with marketing jargon like pyramid scheme, reading flash cards with words like "success" and "entrenpreneurship" and beating them if they refuse to coorperate. they can churn out ENONORMOUS amounts of gold/mesos/creds etc

[Ayria]

rofl

Laugh all you want, so long as you fail to consider relative wealth you'll be ignorant of how things will be.

Look at the real world tax system, do you see Bill Gates moving in next door to you? Of course not, because though he's taxed more then you he's making way more then his taxes and your income combined. People knowledgeable about making money will continue to make money and overcome their taxes while those that are new or to low to make decent money will still get taxed and will never catch up to those that know how to make money. While the poor will (hopefully) learn (/level high enough) to make money the rich already have their head start and can maintain their ratio.

[thecheeseman]

the ratio will not be able to be maintained. ao economy is very similar to real life, but in many ways not. bill gates leads a megacorporation. we are just individual gamers. like i said, by playing normally you simply cannot obtain untold billions. this puts every single player with equal chance and ability of making credits.

the poor WILL catch up. because it will be increasingly harder to maintain credits as you become richer.

you are afraid of losing your credits. if it would make no difference then you wouldnt be complaining.

[Notcrattey]

mythical "exploits,"

Shows how much you know, there have been multiple money exploits over the years, one in particular wasn't fixed FOR YEARS.

[thecheeseman]

in summary the main reason of people oopsing this:

they are afraiid of losing their money.

i am sorry, but to make it fair for new players, changes MUST be made. when AO dies because of player made unbalance and unfairness, all those creds will disappear anyways, a wasted and vain effort.

new players quit because they cant compete game dies. you lose your creds.
game is balanced and AO lives and you lose your creds.

either way your creds will disappear one day. if you love this game then think about what you have done to this game. do you have what it takes to accept change? if not, i recommend a great single player rpg game, star wars: knights of the old republic.

[Nihilaos]

Flat taxation is a tool espoused by the wealthy to pretend to be "fair to everyone" while blithely ignoring the fact that baseline costs do not come at a "fair" percentage of what a person has to spend. If I make 10 million credits in 4 hours one my level 200 character, and in the same 4 hours a level 20 character makes 10,000 credits, then the 10% seems to be fair - each person loses 10% of their time invested for the 4 hour time slot, and if the level 200 is a filthy, sociopathic, hate-inducing, game-ruining hoarder (did I get the witch-hunter's terms right there?), they lose some of their hoard.

Except, the 10% is not fair. The level 20 character still has all kinds of pretty basic requirements to buy, from the shop - nanos, for instance. Emphasizing here for a *new player* in particular, choosing the "wrong" class can mean being completely bankrupt *and* having horrible gear (not just "not the very best so I can improve my performance by another half a percent," absolute trash gear that lowers their fighting ability by several orders of magnitude). Did you pick a pet class? Guess what! Your nanos will cost you everything you make off shop trash (and more), and if you wanted to run the missions to get them yourself you're SOL, because it's really hard to run a ql 100 mission with a ql 90 pet in order to get your new ql 100 pet, especially when you're wearing a hodgepodge of cyber armor that you found as you leveled up.

Of course, these new players are all crybabies and whiners and noobs and still deserve to have the 10% taken from them, because if they would just bother to read (and potentially read a lot), they would know that they could make money easily if they would just download a third-party program, use some of their precious credits to hope to roll a sellable item, and then make a neutral alt to attempt to sell their item amongst the reams of garbage spammed in trade channel. That's so easy, I can't understand why anyone would think it was a barrier to new players!

Meanwhile, the big scary strawman exploiters and other rich thugs who clearly exploited all of us hard-working blue-collars will have all their money taken away, because that's what the tax is for and everyone knows that when you make a law, the rich people it's designed to take money from magically have all the power drained from their bodies and are powerless to work around it. I, for one, know that nobody with massive wealth would have the foresight to do something like blow all of their money by buying something like say... ELLTS which by definition will never lose value unless Funcom puts in something *exactly* like it with equal or better stats, and equal or lower reqs. Certainly, the wealthy villainous sociopath who only has their money so they can make poor honest players suffer - while they cackle villainously from their tower - would never find a way to completely avoid the effects of the tax while everyone else suffers under it. That's why they have so much money, because they are as stupid as they are evil. I mean, that's obvious to everyone, right? (/sarcasm)

For the record, I topped out at 100 million credits and a dchest (which I diligently went to every raid for 2 months for, even at 4 am my time), promptly traded it for a SMG, and then foolishly failed to sell said SMG before quitting. I'm no credit master-mind, and I still think it's a terrible idea. I don't think it's fair or right to be forcing new players to work 10% harder for the same credits that they already probably lack, and it's even more unfair to punish casual players or someone who takes a break from the game by saying "hey welcome back, btw all your cash is gone." A time-based tax rate simply punishes everyone incrementally for every hour within the tax period that they aren't playing the game (and making credits to replenish their stock).

[Nihilaos]

Shows how much you know, there have been multiple money exploits over the years, one in particular wasn't fixed FOR YEARS.

I apologize for not reading the patch notes or the forums while I wasn't playing the game. *cough*

[shadowgod]

i think someone is upset cause hes never figured out how to make a ton of credits easily.


its time for someone to give him a hug.

[thecheeseman]

on my new toon, i made 150k just looting totw cultists in 2 hours. i bought every single one of my basic nanos, and after doing some rk missions bought set of ql 50 implants at lvl 24.

new players dont consume credits. low level twinks do. you havent played normally in a long time. dont use misinformation

Meanwhile, the big scary strawman exploiters and other rich thugs who clearly exploited all of us hard-working blue-collars will have all their money taken away

using fox news- like arrogant mocking discredits yourself. exploiters and rich bullies are very real. you are either ignorant or you are one.
are you a exploiter or a rich thug, nihilaos?

i think someone is upset cause hes never figured out how to make a ton of credits easily.


its time for someone to give him a hug.

burying a argument with spam doesnt work when the game is dead and no one posts. only when the game is dead is the truth now finally heard
you can't make a ton of credits. the credits were already there, give to you from another player. sounds like someone is threatend by the thought of bring made equal with "the mortals"
if you cannot even bring yourself to care about new players, why should you be made an mp professional if you do not help? maybe a more helpful meta physicist player would be more deserving of that title

[Nihilaos]

i think someone is upset cause hes never figured out how to make a ton of credits easily.


its time for someone to give him a hug.

Are you talking about me? I make credits just fine and in my current state would have no personal problems with a credit taxation. Actual new players will be hurt by it, and the OP is portraying it as a way to help new players.

Is making condescending comments on the forums one of the qualifications for being a professional?

on my new toon, i made 150k just looting totw cultists in 2 hours. i bought every single one of my basic nanos, and after doing some rk missions bought set of ql 50 implants at lvl 24.

new players dont consume credits. low level twinks do. you havent played normally in a long time.

I (re)-started playing on a sloob account and re-activated my old account to leech credits out of frustration. Trade chat is apparently "link everything you looted from your last round of dyna kills" chat now, so I figured $15 was easier than trying to sell low-ql rollables in that mess. I knew full well it was my fault for rolling an MP instead of one of the "balanced" classes, I don't think that invalidates my argument.

Making 150k in totw will probably not quite pay for half of the nanos an MP will go through if they try to buy all of them while leveling in there - I skipped them judiciously so I could buy NCU instead of getting to 60 and fighting over Lien, but again I argue that a new player isn't going to expect that there's no way in heck they're going to be able to afford all their nanos (especially if their friend who rolled an MA is doing just fine and calls them a retard for spending all their money).

Now that I've hit TL4 I actually make credits instead of bleeding them out of my eyes. Of course, this probably wouldn't be the case if I hadn't blitzed all my non-shoppable nanos with my TL6 fixer...

using fox news- like arrogant mocking discredits yourself. exploiters and rich bullies are very real. you are either ignorant or you are one.

Ironically, I was comparing you to fox news because proposing a solution to help "the poor" that is actually a solution to screw them over and simultaneously not do anything to the rich is their favorite tactic. Whether or not that is your intent, I say that it is the net effect of what you propose. Trying to "rally the crowd" by characterizing everyone with hoarded credits as a bitter sociopath isn't really honest, but it is "fair and balanced."

[Nihilaos]

using fox news- like arrogant mocking discredits yourself. exploiters and rich bullies are very real. you are either ignorant or you are one.
are you a exploiter or a rich thug, nihilaos?

So now I'm either with you or I'm a terrori... I mean rich thug? =-p

[thecheeseman]

im not charcaterizing everyone as credit hoarding sociopaths. im stating what i observe. and the truth hurts.

losing 10% of 100k to 500k is a very small amount and can be regained almsot instantly compared to dozens to hundreds of billions. you are exxagerating your problems with your mp just to win an argument. frankly i dont welcome that in this thread.





taxation will help bring down the enormous extreme rich poor gap and reduce credit inflation. this will amke the game more playable for new players, and make funcom more money by gaining more subscribers. it will make the hundreds of billions of exploited and unfairly gained credits no longer an issue.