2 hour MP pets=finally lower reqs on engi pets?

[Farlath]

You suck at pvp if blinds destroy you and you don't take steps to prevent it. I mean how retarded is it to whine for the removal of something when there are measures that allow you to become immune if you feel it is such a huge issue for you? Obviously that immunity comes with a cost, but if you're not willing to sacrifice, then tough luck, you don't get the immunity and you most certainly shouldn't be whining about it to be fixed so you don't have to change.

oh ffs would you shut the hell up already? the thread is about engie pet requirements, not your bloody precious cyberdeck.

[egadsrk2]

I don't get it. Even if MP's and Crats get their two hours.... Engis pets are still forever. This hasnt changed. Why should the reqs change. 2 Hours aint forever.

So, some other prof is getting something. Why does this automatically mean you should too?

And hell. The reqs arent even bad on the pets. Mech Reflect shield is pretty harsh. Everything else, *shrug*.

[Xyphos]

knock off 230 TS/MC from the best pets and top buffs and ppl will stop complaining.


Bump!

[Koizumi]

I don't get it. Even if MP's and Crats get their two hours.... Engis pets are still forever. This hasnt changed. Why should the reqs change. 2 Hours aint forever.

So, some other prof is getting something. Why does this automatically mean you should too?

And hell. The reqs arent even bad on the pets. Mech Reflect shield is pretty harsh. Everything else, *shrug*.

this ^

[Xyphos]

I OBJECT!

our pets don't last forever. the dog trips over a pebble and dies of melee damage.

[Berael]

So, some other prof is getting something. Why does this automatically mean you should too?

This issue relates directly to what those professions are getting (or may be getting) for engineers. For the longest time, Engineer's sky high pet nano skill requirements were suggested to be in place because Engineers had pets that lasted forever and other profession's pets lasted a much much shorter duration, so they had lower nano skill costs to produce them.

If this duration gets increased without the nanoskill cost getting increased, it suggests that high nanoskills costs and duration are not linked, or at least do not matter as much, in the minds of the devs anymore.

From there we ask the question: Why are the requirements for engineer pets so high? Comparing the top pets of each profession to each other, we can see that engineer pets are no longer the top of the heap when we look at damage, health, or anything else, like they were considered to be back before Alien Invasion was released.

if engies equate 2 hours to meaning permanent... then they dont need to have any buffs that last more than 2. so if an engie asks for a 4 or 8 hour buff, they really mean 2.

What is being asked here is not that engineer pets should have nano skill costs equal to crats or mps pets simply because they may soon have 2 hour durations, but rather a proportional decrease related to the increase in duration. If the original view was that the crat and mp pet duration was the base to judge how high nano costs should be for a permanent duration engi pet; if you increase that base than the costs for the permanent should come down some.


This is really not an unreasonable request since it just means that engineers have to swap less stuff to get their pets into play.

[bungerman]

I don't get it. Even if MP's and Crats get their two hours.... Engis pets are still forever. This hasnt changed. Why should the reqs change. 2 Hours aint forever.

So, some other prof is getting something. Why does this automatically mean you should too?

And hell. The reqs arent even bad on the pets. Mech Reflect shield is pretty harsh. Everything else, *shrug*.

we've been asking for this for a while seeing how much higher nanoskills MPs have already, engi pets are no longer the best and do not require insane nanoskills, which in turn gives us even more insane reqs on new pet buffs since FC feels they must increase each set of nanos we get in each patch and that's why those buffs are so high.

If you are some TS engi in full symbs/arith and use all your perks in nanoskills then you are right, they are not that bad, but everyone else struggles to pop pets because they use combat armor/implants after they swap out a whole set of arith on and off, constantly swapping is not how I envisioned how this game would be played. The changes in pet shells on BS is the first example of trying to change this mind set.

Changing MP pets to 2 hours when the nanoskills are easily achieved is my chance to voice my opinion again, because it's relatable ... you don't have to agree, but it is funny that you have an MP and not an engi and are against this even though the change would not effect you in the slightest. Some other prof wants something. Why does this automatically make you against it?

for my MP vs engi nanoskills thread, go here http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...23&postcount=1

[Chrys]

In PVM, if any MP pet other than Yidira (which never gets agg) dies, they can't get it back up again easily (well shieldnoobs excepted) for soloing because of the very long cast time.

Engy on the other hand, would be able to pop at least 2 new pets (dog and widow) instantly with low reqs while wearing their CC or whatever uber dd armor they use. Is that an advantage in PVP? FC make lower req shells for BS?

The conclusion:

Crat ofc should be nerfed (HAI RAGERAYDEN & CRATTEY, HAI /WAVE)

P.S.

You suck at pvp if blinds destroy you and you don't take steps to prevent it. I mean how retarded is it to whine for the removal of something when there are measures that allow you to become immune if you feel it is such a huge issue for you? Obviously that immunity comes with a cost, but if you're not willing to sacrifice, then tough luck, you don't get the immunity and you most certainly shouldn't be whining about it to be fixed so you don't have to change.

lol whooossshh.

[egadsrk2]

I play a 220 crat (With Carlo), a 220 engineer (With Widow/Ravager), and a 220 MP (With Rihwen).

My Crat doesnt buff himself with anything, doesnt hotswap anything and casts his pets. Wears a Nano Controller Unit, and an Infused Ancient Nano Enhancer. Both of these items are to enable different nanos, neither required for pets. In full CSS. These two items are the only ones worn specifically for nano casting.

My MP does buff himself with Mochams, doesnt buff himself with Odin's Other eye, doesn't hotswap anything, casts his pets. He wears not a single item chosen specifically for nano casting. It wears full CSS (except for Ofab Chest / Sureshots). I use mochams to counteract the only two items I would wear specifically for nano casting.

My Engi uses both Conp Attrib/Nano, doesnt hotswap anything and casts his Widowmaker. (It needs to hotswap Nano3 to gain 12 points of TS to cast the APF dog.) Wears a nano controller unit, and an Infused Ancient Nano Enhancer. It wears full CSS. These two items are the only ones worn specifically for nano casting.

Since I have direct personal experience with 220 toons in all three pet classes, I'd say I'd be in a pretty good position to judge. Crats have it far, far too easy. MP's allow for two extra tradeoffs. I hate hotswapping. I build all my toons in such a way that one setup does a sufficient job at everything, and I'm in the process of taking care of that 12 TS on the engineer. Four clicks is four clicks too many.

No tower dependancy for any toon.
No contract dependancy for any toon.
No hotswap dependancy for any toon, prior to 17.10 (12 TS for the engineer.)

So what are you bitching about again? If you've built your character around the concept that you're going to hotswap 32 different items to cast your ****, thats your choice. It's no longer relevant that this is how an engineer must play. I wouldn't say engineers have it harder than anyone else. For a long time, my MP was built under the principal that 'I don't need mochams, you shouldn't either.', an arseholes position to be sure, but I had CIplx rage.

If I can find 32 points of TS, and 6 in MC, this engineer would be able to self everything unbuffed, whilst ODing my soldier at the exact same time. Would still need one Hotswap for Mech Reflect. It is a single purpose of engineer though. Straight up damage, without any fuss. The engineer could self everything if it chose to wear a control eye symbiant instead of an EOE. (Not really a choice though, EOE required to keep a Dshark at 100%.)

[Flyingengi]

Is it over now? :O


(Also...can mps and crats get their 220 pets from pande now?)

[sultryvoltron]

It's like NTs... WHAT U DONT WANNA WARE 110% BLIND RESIST OMG U SUXX AT PEEVEEPEEZ

At least engies have the abilities to swap the items out... us NMs can't swap vision preservation without IBeh/Prod str xD

You suck at pvp if blinds destroy you and you don't take steps to prevent it. I mean how retarded is it to whine for the removal of something when there are measures that allow you to become immune if you feel it is such a huge issue for you? Obviously that immunity comes with a cost, but if you're not willing to sacrifice, then tough luck, you don't get the immunity and you most certainly shouldn't be whining about it to be fixed so you don't have to change.

LMFAO, if it wasn't so long, that's a complete swing and a miss certainly worthy to be sigged forever. Masta, you must be getting old and senile.

[bungerman]

My Engi uses both Conp Attrib/Nano, doesnt hotswap anything and casts his Widowmaker. (It needs to hotswap Nano3 to gain 12 points of TS to cast the APF dog.) Wears a nano controller unit, and an Infused Ancient Nano Enhancer. It wears full CSS. These two items are the only ones worn specifically for nano casting.

oh neat, an actual discussion, ty for that.

do you have your setup saved in auno for your engi? I'd like to see your perks and AI perks/levels

You contradict yourself in your post so I'm going to attempt to dissect carefully

right here>>>

I build all my toons in such a way that one setup does a sufficient job at everything

and

here >>>

It is a single purpose of engineer though. Straight up damage, without any fuss.

I only point this out to show you that your engi is setup for pure DD and definitely not setup for everything an engi can do, but is more like an engi setup for pure TS can achieve these nanoskills just the same.

This is in no way bragging, but merely to tell you how my engi is set up. He's set up for a balance of TS/PVP/soloing AI gens. I can do just fine in all aspects, but definitely not as great as if setup for a single purpose.

In attempting to PVP on engi, you are automatically assured great sacrifice. I use all 3 AS imps for KEC3, eye, rhand, rwrist. I admit this is where my nanoskills falter, but is unfortunately necessary for any kind of legitimate pvping. I can't use nano controller because I use sniper's friend and my measly NM agility is not enough to swap it without swapping even more armor.

I also have to use a scope once again for AS or I could use the research level 3 nanoskill item. I am someday going to use my full IPR and get enough perception to self it and all this will be moot, but I am only explaining what engi's who PVP have to do for nanoskills and it is increasingly unfair compared to the other 2 profs you stated.

I still swap 4 pieces of scouts to self chicken. I cannot self the new nanos as of yet, it will take that IPR(with another swap) or 2 more AI levels.

The problem for pvp engi is AS imps in MC/TS symb spots, there is no choice in that matter. Now onto a prof that does have a choice...

My MP does buff himself with Mochams, doesnt buff himself with Odin's Other eye, doesn't hotswap anything, casts his pets. He wears not a single item chosen specifically for nano casting. It wears full CSS (except for Ofab Chest / Sureshots). I use mochams to counteract the only two items I would wear specifically for nano casting.

this is the problem right here. You admitted on your MP you don't even have to use your 2nd! nanoskill buff Odin's other eye to pop your pets/use buffs. I would assume you don't waste any perks in nanoskills since you could easily have spare perks if you only used the 2nd! buff that stacks. Do you not see the difference???

[MajorOutage]

This request is worthless if our pet buffs reqs aren't brought down along with the pets themselves.

[egadsrk2]

Odin's other eye is a retarded buff. It shouldn't even exist.

Where do I contradict myself?

My engineer uses four self buffs and casts everything except APF dog / Mech Reflects without a hotswap. Hotswapping to Nano3 allows those two nanos to be cast.

You choose to do 389932874 different things with your engineer, suck it up.

And uhh.. Why the hell would an MP need to use a 17.8 buff to cast a 15.6 nano? Why the hell would anyone need to do that. Of any profession. Ever? Using mochams is strictly optional. I like my snipers friend to allow 1/1 attack speed on the Tigress. It's not even for the crits.

As to an equip setup. Only premade ones I have are the ones I made when working out the Dshark. Making one now. I'll send that to you via private message.

[Flyingengi]

this is the problem right here. You admitted on your MP you don't even have to use your 2nd! nanoskill buff Odin's other eye to pop your pets/use buffs. I would assume you don't waste any perks in nanoskills since you could easily have spare perks if you only used the 2nd! buff that stacks. Do you not see the difference???

But you want to know the difference from mps/crats and engis? mps/crats CAST nanos during combat. They need extra nano skills so they can actually land offensive and defensive nanos on their opponents. THAT is the main reason that they have more nanoskills. They don't have as much passive defenses like reflects(expect shield mp), blind/anti reflect auras, and coon like engis do.


And yes...most mps perk nano skills bc those are the only decent perks we get lol

[bungerman]

Odin's other eye is a retarded buff. It shouldn't even exist.

Where do I contradict myself?

My engineer uses four self buffs and casts everything except APF dog / Mech Reflects without a hotswap. Hotswapping to Nano3 allows those two nanos to be cast.

You choose to do 389932874 different things with your engineer, suck it up.

And uhh.. Why the hell would an MP need to use a 17.8 buff to cast a 15.6 nano? Why the hell would anyone need to do that. Of any profession. Ever? Using mochams is strictly optional. I like my snipers friend to allow 1/1 attack speed on the Tigress. It's not even for the crits.

As to an equip setup. Only premade ones I have are the ones I made when working out the Dshark. Making one now. I'll send that to you via private message.

ok thanks

and what is wrong with wanting to do all an engi can? Not everyone plays this game enough to roll a different toon that is best suited for each, sorry. I don't understand why it should be such a struggle to be able to TS/pvp/solo all in one toon. The game prett much requires all 3 of these, why should I limit myself to one or the other when it's doable (although a pain, hence the reason this thread was made, because it doesn't have to be, and when compared with other profs, shouldn't be.)

I pointed out where you contradicted yourself.

Odin's eye is not worthless, give it to us and I'll shut up since MPs don't need it apparently, summing up this thread nicely.

But you want to know the difference from mps/crats and engis? mps/crats CAST nanos during combat. They need extra nano skills so they can actually land offensive and defensive nanos on their opponents. THAT is the main reason that they have more nanoskills. They don't have as much passive defenses like reflects(expect shield mp), blind/anti reflect auras, and coon like engis do.


And yes...most mps perk nano skills bc those are the only decent perks we get lol

what does this have to do with pet and pet buff requirements and engi's being too high? I'll let someone else rip this a new one, I'm sleepy. Unless when I wake up it hasn't been done yet.

[Gypsimoth]

engis pets, all buyable in gardens, no quest for them, or the farming for key shards, no waiting for biodome raids, or doing outlandishly long quests for them, and no concerns about the pet deactivating during a fight/healing process, since they last for ever.

if the req is to high then it was your choice tbh, you chose your set up, just like you chose the engi profession. the call was yours, just like it was for those who made mp's and crats. every prof scarifices some thing to beable to do some thing else, what makes the engi so special that it shouldnt?

mp's and crats for their end game pets have to do a quest for them, which often means looking for an alappa team, a team for the new db quest, and a biodome key gathering team, then the biodome raid team. mp's and crats cant go buy at will their end game pets, and the pets dont last for ever, and take to long to recast when they deactivate.

now, where was your logic in justifying the reqs to be lowered? ah thats right. the mp "maybe" getting their pets time extended to what? 2 hours? and "maybe (but not stated )" the crats pet extended also?

now, thats some flawed logic there.

[bungerman]

engis pets, all buyable in gardens, no quest for them, or the farming for key shards, no waiting for biodome raids, or doing outlandishly long quests for them, and no concerns about the pet deactivating during a fight/healing process, since they last for ever.

if the req is to high then it was your choice tbh, you chose your set up, just like you chose the engi profession. the call was yours, just like it was for those who made mp's and crats. every prof scarifices some thing to beable to do some thing else, what makes the engi so special that it shouldnt?

mp's and crats for their end game pets have to do a quest for them, which often means looking for an alappa team, a team for the new db quest, and a biodome key gathering team, then the biodome raid team. mp's and crats cant go buy at will their end game pets, and the pets dont last for ever, and take to long to recast when they deactivate.

now, where was your logic in justifying the reqs to be lowered? ah thats right. the mp "maybe" getting their pets time extended to what? 2 hours? and "maybe (but not stated )" the crats pet extended also?

now, thats some flawed logic there.

no maybe, go read means answer again. next patch. what set up sacrifice do the MP and crat have to make just to self their pets and pet buffs? please enlighten me. Everyone has to do different quests in this game, that is by no means an excuse to have an easier time casting their buffs. Our new dog is one of the new apf nanos, I don't here you mentioning that... Put the engi pet in the biodome, make an alternative pet that lasts 2 hours, I'll accept both. Or a lessening of nanoskills due to the recent changes like mentioned in the topic.

[Flyingengi]

no maybe, go read means answer again. next patch. what set up sacrifice do the MP and crat have to make just to self their pets and pet buffs? please enlighten me. Everyone has to do different quests in this game, that is by no means an excuse to have an easier time casting their buffs. Our new dog is one of the new apf nanos, I don't here you mentioning that... Put the engi pet in the biodome, make an alternative pet that lasts 2 hours, I'll accept both. Or a lessening of nanoskills due to the recent changes like mentioned in the topic.

MP's don't get any fear/knockback stuff

[Gypsimoth]

your arguement is mute and twisting, i stated the facts, so deal with them, with out twisting and distorting, and side steping to distract from the issue you your self started this thread on, so you can get your way. and logging in alt accounts to try to confound the issue.

you side step them with distractions. where does an engi do a quest for a bot? (added edit: did not know where the new doggy came from, but wow what a puppy, it can almost odd the chicken, so no excuse for a lower req)

"2 hour MP pets=finally lower reqs on engi pets?"

i believe that was the topic and thus your atempt to justify your request to lower the req? you are the one leaving the topic you created, when others actualy comment on it but dont agree with you.

as for a sacrifice? every prof sacrifices some thing to do some thing else, perhaps you should listen (" read" ) to your self what you your self has stated.

"This is in no way bragging, but merely to tell you how my engi is set up. He's set up for a balance of TS/PVP/soloing AI gens. I can do just fine in all aspects, but definitely not as great as if setup for a single purpose.

In attempting to PVP on engi, you are automatically assured great sacrifice. I use all 3 AS imps for KEC3, eye, rhand, rwrist. I admit this is where my nanoskills falter, but is unfortunately necessary for any kind of legitimate pvping. I can't use nano controller because I use sniper's friend and my measly NM agility is not enough to swap it without swapping even more armor."

you want the cake and icing, not to mention the ice cream and soda to go with it.