New weapons #2

[Ynwood2]

idea... watch for proc. and Target == Monster...

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=510611

[Kinkstaah]

I don't expect my weapons to do massive damage. I was first and foremost attacking his single line. A simple "Don't do it, cuz i heard you shouldn't" doesn't work. Actually I don't have a TL7, just a TL5 twink that prolly is a completly different story, so I am speaking about the receiving end of the fixer alpha. The BS is to fast paced to make the most use of their fa, it often doesn't even cap on my doc, and their onehander AS only does 1k damage most of the time thanks to crit reduce. They can cap points given the right circumstances but fixer are still extremly vulnerable to the right tools.

I kind of agree about docs focusing on healing, and it's what I mostly do. In fact it's what most docs do and I allways find it funny when soldiers and agents complain about not getting doc heals while the doc is kiting with 2-3 omnis on their tail chainhealing himself and not being able to use any offense anyway.
The Pistols still are not a viable "pvp weapon". I like to hurt opponents sometime too, the dot is a nice thing that gives pvm weapons some pvp use, but it's certainly not a viable pvp weapon when we can't hit anyone with it. Your argueing docs don't need offense, I disagree there to some degree. If your calling the pistols pvp weapons I'll just have to laugh.

If you're not TL7 - You don't exist, please leave the thread.

In any case, I was stating Doc DoTs should be a doctors "PVP weapon" and if people want to get doc offence improved, it makes far more sense to push in the direction of DoT's and offensive nanos as opposed to them going OMGZZZ WE WANTZ TEH DUAL WEILDED AS PIST0LS!

Which is dumb.

Any class with massive defence is always overall good. Doc dot's DO hurt. Debuff procs really ARE effective, but like all other classes, some are more susceptible to certain offences than others.

Prime example would be doctors vs Soldiers, a Doctor can sit and tank a single soldier all day long - That doesnt mean that Soldiers automatically need more offence.

[IHaveHugeNick]

As i said 150 times - first give AS, then you can get to fixing support proffesion toolset. We are simple not willing to wait any longer, you already managed to make many great players to quit the game or reroll combat proffesions - and then i hear people crying that there is no teamplay on Battlestations - well how can be any teamplay if 90% of population are Soldiers/Keepers/Advies/NTs/Agents , and all of em are so effective while playing solo, they have no need to get a team.

In my opinion, if current FC goal is to really get team pvp in this game , only way to do it is altering/fixing support proffesion tools to the point where everyone intersted in winning BS is FORCED to team. This and proper title & reward system.

[Ragetra]

everyone needs orb throwers! only with orb throwers there could be balance!

[bungerman]

As i said 150 times - first give AS, then you can get to fixing support proffesion toolset. We are simple not willing to wait any longer, you already managed to make many great players to quit the game or reroll combat proffesions - and then i hear people crying that there is no teamplay on Battlestations - well how can be any teamplay if 90% of population are Soldiers/Keepers/Advies/NTs/Agents , and all of em are so effective while playing solo, they have no need to get a team.

In my opinion, if current FC goal is to really get team pvp in this game , only way to do it is altering/fixing support proffesion tools to the point where everyone intersted in winning BS is FORCED to team. This and proper title & reward system.

why do you need CC from a support prof even in team pvp? there can just be 6 soldiers with 6 soldier alphas calling people and no ones gonna survive that, not even 6 docs

I'm afraid team pvp is gonna be borked too

[vigoron]

just update the toolsets of "support" professions.

i would be happy if my blind / pet aoe snare would actually land one someone half decent. pvp speed got up, but the nano toolset of support professions stayed almost the same ( there are no procs *cough*)

otherwise:

balance pvp, orb thrower 4 every1!

[Esqi]

An upgraded AS Pistol with a mediocre range is really warranted for support proffs, nothing over the top just a gun that gives an improved Aimed shot chance over existing craphander abilities.

150-280 would be the range is recommend with a MBS of say 1.5k.

Allowing fixers to get a decent AS happening, they could cap the MBS, Ranged adv's to get something semi reliable DMG wise and toons like crats/docs/engis to use thier prime weapon line.

Some would argue these profs dont need a AS pistol, well for pet classes they still requrie dmg from weapons, pets are not always attentative..

Docs DoT's are not always castable, they do require acute instant dmg as well.

Ranged adv's are a dieing breed, no current setup will even allow them to compete with players who have evades greater than 2500DMS, when you consider the FA AR they have. Fa for them is supplemental dmg which is secondary to AS damage. Consider Adv's have the same base AS as sold's and the crap they gotta use to be below semi decent in a ranged setup.

So yes, an updated Pistol based AS pistol is well warranted, sure nothing that rivals ubah specs, just a simple upgraded version of what is currently available.

[Louderer789]

230-280 (350) or so would be nice, so i can leave it on for pvm

[Esqi]

Peregrine 6 should remain as top main pistol for one to use in my honest opinion.

Anyway, a upgraded JEPP (ql160 weapon used in end game setups dont make sense) and in combination with a Peregrine 6 would be very nice.

I still believe 150-280 would be the sweet spot for a AS pistol with 550 crit mod @ 2/2 is ideal.

[Louderer789]

2/2 would be like 25s AS recharge on support profs, it would never be used. Nothing wrong with keeping peregrine as best, if you make AS pistol like

230-280 (550)
1.5/1.5
2001 pistol
1001 AS
1000 multi or whatever

If it has only AS, they will still want peregrine/SMG/whatever for pvm dd. 150-280 and 280-280 are exactly the same in terms of AS performance, no reason to make it totally useless for pvm One of the cheif complaints among profession like fixer/engy/doc/crat is that pvp setup need different weapons than pvm setup, while adv/keeper/soldier etc can just run around how they like and do well in both.

BTW just incase anyone is not aware, pistol perks have got to be the worst of any weapon line. Only adv has access to the top damage perk, the first two have to be chained and do ~1100 total, in PVM. So it's not like letting these professions use their intended guns suddenly has some huge alpha potential beyond the AS, but if they can't get a recharge of like 11-15s or so its useless.

[Esqi]

Good point re support prof AS times.

Still lowering the attack/recharge on it makes sense, maybe there could be multiple versions of new AS pistols coming out.

With the revival of old RK weapons in 17.7 (based upon DB and assuming) that would be modded via some quest attained upgrade kit, providing options would not be a bad idea.

I do believe everyone (except NT's)should have access to alternatives, and going pistol route is often to the detriment of a consistent dmg special.

In an ideal world, support professions would not need something like this, but AO aint ideal and the engine is far from it.

[XenonDe]

If you're not TL7 - You don't exist, please leave the thread.

It was suposed to say I don't have a TL7 fixer just a tl5 fixer twink. But boy, nice elitism here. I am talking about the tl7 fixer alpha from the receiving end of a tl7 doc? there sound better?

In any case, I was stating Doc DoTs should be a doctors "PVP weapon" and if people want to get doc offence improved, it makes far more sense to push in the direction of DoT's and offensive nanos as opposed to them going OMGZZZ WE WANTZ TEH DUAL WEILDED AS PIST0LS!

Which is dumb.

Any class with massive defence is always overall good. Doc dot's DO hurt. Debuff procs really ARE effective, but like all other classes, some are more susceptible to certain offences than others.

Prime example would be doctors vs Soldiers, a Doctor can sit and tank a single soldier all day long - That doesnt mean that Soldiers automatically need more offence.

Mh, now point me to where "I said I want dualwieldable AS pistols" or my "offense should come from my weapons zomg".
...Nevermind. I allready wrote about that in the previus post. Seems you prefer quoting and talking about something else to booster you point. I really hate that.

Docs damage comes from the dots and calling the pistols a pvp weapon is just not true. I don't want to shift the damage dealing away from "dots do the major damage", but I would to use some of the rest of my toolset (hitting people with shots or using perks) as well.
Your point about soldiers is a bit "meh". There are very few toons that get hurt or die to a doctor unless they refuse to run. Before you go like "zomg haha you want solja offense as well as 100k ch!!1" to boost your oppinion - No. I don't want that kind of offense. But I would like to have someone 'fear' or avoid doctors because they might hurt them too. Currently Doctors are just a "annoyance" to kill but good damage farming material. Every other support profession has similar problems.

[Docya]

--------- Here to defend docs honor and future----------

Docs did finally get a wep of their own, its faaaar from wtf pwn... which is expected, due to being support profession and that indeed with some serious healing power.(being a doctor it`s to be expected)

All doc`s ever was and still is are heal monkeys... fine, why should we be anything else.. support profession after all.

But in same sense, Crats are also support, they got pets for extra dmg like docs have dots. And insane stuns/root which is equal powerful to that of a doctors heals in a relative perspective.. So far the things mentioned are balanced in relative terms. Except crats dont have a new pistol, but hey... atleast they can hit people when they try =P I see cratty talking about how much has to be sacrificed to get 3500 AR... do you know what I as a doc need to sacrifice to get 1900AR? So things are still in balance there even if doc`s have "better" pistols.

Doctors however don`t seem to have the option of resisting anything, because we are "forced" like many other professions in different areas to play in full or near full aggro. We are trashcans to nsd,stuns,roots,gth,drains,perks and whatnot.. They will land, cuz unlike every other professions , they are able to protect themself by playing in defence in addition to having the benefits of being their profession. Doctors stop being doctors when going full defense, because our heals dont work anymore.. Sure they work if you think 3 seconds casting time is okay, but myself or my target is dead in 3 seconds if i dont heal.

If going full defence, I have to use CH in order to heal in time... where does that leave me/docs? Well from being a proud healer.. i become nothing more then a FP Agent without their insane damage and perks...

And if I play offensive, I get shutdown by everything thats being thrown at me.. Doctors even have nano to increase nanoresist, and a greenìsh skill in it.. Yet we basicly can`t use it.. That`s "broken" for you.

MP`s is more then fixed with all their new stuff, so are traders.. If they arnt good as they are, then gief crats and docs super AS weapons like they got , so we can atleast return the favor of death without using some piece of **** like the ithaca is.(but only valid option)

Here you people are going about crying for Keepers,soldiers,advys etc to get ph4t lewt.. heres news for you, THEY DONT NEED IT!

"shut up Docya,you healmonkey!" Well FU! I and other docs helped heal your ass to 220, im not going just go reroll keeper or advy etc, to have fun in BS.

Since every profession gets fancy new stuff, gief docs improved epsilon purge then, that totally spanks your DD asses, goodbye Coon, goodbye reflects, goodbye BR, goodbye evade perks..and so forth yeh.. that would be something wouldnt it.. but is that what im really asking.. no! I just want a -CHANCE- just a chance to resist all the damn new junk out there that makes me a total retard in the field, by going defence so I can do my job to a certain degree.


Your flaming may begin.

[crattey]

But in same sense, Crats are also support, they got pets for extra dmg like docs have dots.

Pets don't function on bs. They don't hit evades much to begin with as they have ~2.2K AR.

And insane stuns/root which is equal powerful to that of a doctors heals in a relative perspective..

Wait? Docs heals are a 9.75% chance to land every AS too? Procs can't be timed, can't be depended on.

Also, I'd love to see docs getting the 'Target was not affected by your...' spam whnever they try and cast a heal. That'd be great!

I see cratty talking about how much has to be sacrificed to get 3500 AR... do you know what I as a doc need to sacrifice to get 1900AR?

No, you see me talking about how crats don't have 3.5K AR. The setup posted by Ragetra is retarded and not achievable. Try actually reading posts for a change. You really think crats have the highest AR in game?

[Gnizt]

This thread is stupid, Imho. The only thing needed is a fix of pets pathing, and possibly a new defense for crats.

That pets arent always working properly or aren't always attentive is no excuse to get some new uber weapon. FFs by that logic everyone with a great perkoffense could demand some new weapon too, because of borked server sync and whatnot,- gief AS!!!
Or for that matter, everyone that hasn't easy access to a 11 sec recharge relieble AS weapon. The game mechanics arent always great, you DO NOT fix that by adding items. If so i want my out of range fix in form of an item too.

That said, when the pets are there they ****ing hurt, and saying anything else is a blatant lie. Gotta love all the engies trying to undermine their pets.

Enough about the petclasse, the rest of the profs mentioned in this thread has a tremendous defense (ranged advy, docs and to a lesser extent fixers), and they still hurt or disables many of the profs well, they do not need more offense. Not from a duel perspective, and certainly not in a mass pvp scenario. Period.

The crats can get some added defense in some form, that I could agree on.

[crattey]

Why are people giving their permission for certain changes? It'not like FC won't allow for anything to happen as long as you don't agree..

[Gnizt]

That pets arent always working properly or aren't always attentive is no excuse to get some new uber weapon. FFs by that logic everyone with a great perkoffense could demand some new weapon too, because of borked server sync and whatnot,- gief AS!!!
Or for that matter, everyone that hasn't easy access to a 11 sec recharge relieble AS weapon. The game mechanics arent always great, you DO NOT fix that by adding items. If so i want my out of range fix in form of an item too.

I quote myself because im a selfcenterd bitch, but I just wanted to add that an improvement to the pet problem could possible come in an item form but not in terms of a pew pew gun, these suggestions are much more reasonable http://forums.anarchyonline.com/showthread.php?t=506939 imo. though the procs suggested are slighy over the top imo. Atleast that suggestion is aimed at the problem, not just some brainfart substitute.

[Hacre]

Pets don't function on bs. They don't hit evades much to begin with as they have ~2.2K AR.

Yanno dude, I've grown to like you despite most others thinking you're a troll and tbh mate, its comments like this that make people thinking you're a clueless troll despite the fact you're not.

Carlo and that monkey the MPs get hit me -annoyingly- often. Its been a long time since I ran into an engi pet so I couldn't tell you how well they hit me.

If "pet professions" are going to get a fix then they need one that separates their roles pvp/pvm. Pets are clearly useless anywhere but the arena because of arsed up pathing, so get rid of them. I don't know exactly what could be done to keep everyone happy since everyone bitches about anything and everything but maybe MAYBE give crats a weapon similar to the tigress along with engis and make it so you can only use that weapon OR your attack pet. Same should go for MPs for fairness. That way you can still be really cool PVM with your pets/DD setup and in pvp you don't have to rely on something that has the IQ of an envelope with comparable maneuverability and instead have some cool new toys to play with.

The problem isn't with pets not doing damage when they have a target. Its getting to the damn target in the first place.

[crattey]

Yanno dude, I've grown to like you despite most others thinking you're a troll

/me puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Anyway, the pets will hit of course. If you're stupid enough to stand in front of them. All it takes is a circle around a small builing/obstacle and you've gotten rid of them. Step on a teleprot pad and you've just got the equivalent of having blockers, acrobat, cocoon, guard and AMS versus soldiers; e.g. complete immunity.

Carlo and CG hit faster than the Engi pets, so even though they have 1-1.5K less AR, they will hit too. Engi pets wtpwn me on my crat if I stand in front of them, tested this with Feble. However, on BS, the rare occasion I meet an engi, I don't even bother rooting/mezzing the pets. You can outrun them easy, make a circle about any random obstacle and you're done.

[Hacre]

/me puts on his robe and wizard hat.

Anyway, the pets will hit of course. If you're stupid enough to stand in front of them. All it takes is a circle around a small builing/obstacle and you've gotten rid of them. Step on a teleprot pad and you've just got the equivalent of having blockers, acrobat, cocoon, guard and AMS versus soldiers; e.g. complete immunity.

I totally had a mental image of a bureaucratic type dude in a suit putting on a robe and wizard hat and lol'd

I completely agree, hence my suggestion about getting rid of them in PVP, they're a failed idea and FC clearly can't fix them, the teleporter pad is just laughable. You can pet pull THROUGH WALLS but they can't overcome a step...lol. If I was a pet prof, I'd be crying with despair but my god from a totally objective point of view that is a catastrophic and hilarious oversight by FC.