Modify Agent AR From Perklines

[Zixx]

You do realise that after the perk changes all of the perks Agents will have will be working off AR, which will be the primary weapon skill being used, not AS?

has the 2-sides-of-AS thing been revomed/dropped? as in one AS that doesnt check evades albeit a bit slower, and the second-hand AS that does check evades? (yes, royy, I dont live ingame nor in forums).

@ the clueless Agent flamers, an all out AR setup Agent is, for most people, a much much easier kill than a def setup Agent.

{Edited by Anarrina: removed trolling}

Defensively setup Agent is -currently- a 50/50 fight for an NT, with the right sort of timing. Agent lives longer which gives more time to try and land debuffs and rely on AS.

That's from my perspective. There's bigger perk alphas out there.

Its all good and stuff, but imo we cant say "Profession X at this point is 50-50, and after the changes it will be 20-80." why? #1: Fairly narrow way of looking at it (yes yes, I do that too, har har) #2: FC is going for Team PvP, not 1 vs. 1. THIS seems to be the thing that most forget. Edit: will it work or not? Most likely not, because of two problems. #1: not enough variety/numbers in player base #2: This game is full of momorpegers.


The perk skill comparing is utterly useless. Such professions as Soldier or Enf (Id count MA there too, hopefully FC will too at somepoint) are supposed to get more increase into certain skill than the rest of us, thats how you make the differences in professions. Does it feel like the neigbours kids are getting more goodies? well I guess, but thats how it works.

That in mind..NoGoal, Keeper to Agent comparison is like trying to make a wheelbarrel and a tasmanian devil have babies.

Missed few quotes there, but oh well, I bet I get remimded of that.


if you did tl;dr: I still think the problem is players, not the game itself. Or is that why Many agenst spend like 24/7 in BS or in other PvP endevours? if they suck so badly, are all agents into S&M?

[sultryvoltron]

Agents get rifle from 3 perks lines not 4 and they give other skills as well. They don't have to spend 30 perks to only get +200 Rifle, they also get 400 hp, 3% crit chance, 120 FS, 165 AS, 80 ddge, 50 duck/close, 100 conceal and 90 add dmg. And, ofc, a bunch of perk specials.

Ok, so let's swing the pendulum the other way since you want to be hard nosed about this.


40 perk points for an Enfo nets you: 200 of the weapon skill of your choice, 890 ACs, 7580 HP, 3% reflect, +80 damage shield, 49 Heal Delta, 4 weapon perks, 1 stun perk, 1 AoE damage perk, 1 debuff perk, 3 defense perks, 5 heal perks.


40 perk points for a Keeper nets you: 180 (soon to be 200) weaponskill, 2890 ACs, 3090 HP, 200 Evade, 100 Dodge and Duck, 3% reflect, +80 damage shield, 4 damage perks, 3 defense perks, 3 debuff perks, 5 heal perks.


40 perk points for an Agent nets: 55 sense, 400 hp, 3 crit, 200 rifle, 175 AS, 120 fling, 80 dodge, 50 duck/evade, 200 concealment, 90 damage, 2 useless perks, 2 snare perks, 2 damage perks you will never land on anything EVER, 2 perks with 3+ minute recharges, 3 perks with 5s+ executions, 4 perks with 3s+ executions, 1 stun perk.



Also, thanks Hacre for covering that post for us

[Hacre]

Also, thanks Hacre for covering that post for us

You lot better remember this if/when the nerfbat swings in my direction....

[sultryvoltron]

You lot better remember this if/when the nerfbat swings in my direction....

I'm not interested in /easymode win PvP. Keepers need some help, NTs I don't know yet. You can bet that if that's what happens to those toons I'll be there to help get some changes.

It's pretty obvious to me who is here to get love for their prof, nerf the prof who kills them, and those who really want to make the game better.

[Hacre]

I'm not interested in /easymode win PvP. Keepers need some help, NTs I don't know yet. You can bet that if that's what happens to those toons I'll be there to help get some changes.

It's pretty obvious to me who is here to get love for their prof, nerf the prof who kills them, and those who really want to make the game better.

This is erring off topic (this reply not yours) but yes Keepers need, in my opinion, lots of help, NTs actually, in my opinion need very little other than a few niggles tweaked and the 1-2 click easynerf of my second most powerful defensive tool (blinds) sorted out.

It's my fear though, which triggered my last reply to you, that this broad brush stroke and seemingly "close your eyes and swing the nerfbat randomly" approach that FC seem to be taking that my chosen PvP profession is going to be hit, hard. There's been too much cool stuff in the perk docs so far, my ire with the nano heal changes not withstanding, for some nasty surprise to be just around the corner. Assault Rifle Soldiers just got nailed pretty hard and if those changes stick it's going to suck, not just for them but for the game in general.

Your last paragraph was bang on the mark. The people out for themselves need to get the hell out of these forums and leave the real bread and butter of everything to those of us that are actually interested in balance and making the game better for -everyone-. I have no vested interest in posting in Agent topics, other than I don't want to lose the fun I have fighting these 13 other professions, some of whom I don't know inside and out and a lot of the proposed changes worry me, not just for my two favourites of Keeper and NT but for the rest of you as well.

{Edited by Anarrina}

[Ixiaan]

I bet you all wish you hadn't called me a silly troll when I said that Bullseye should have been a +500 rifle buff back when we were all going nuts over it being a -500 dodge debuff that stacked with LICC eh?

I was always of the same opinion, so doubt I would have called you a silly troll for that!

[Ixiaan]

Not as much as counting enfo procs (especially stacking them eh), 3x CB and sold perks.

Basically what hacre said.

@NoGoal I know counting stacked CB and procs and stuff is easily as stupid as counting Bullseye I believe that was his point.

Agents also have the possibility to use trader drains or enf challenger for more AR.

This might be valid at tl5. Sadly, I don't think this thread is about tl5 agents.

[Gatester]

Ok some thoughts, and please keep in mind I do not want to make it harder on agents

One on One fights, mimic enf and trader are difficult to use in pvp at tl7, although I believe a few have used trader with some effeciency. Now in mass pvp, where agent survival does not need to be as extensive to survive, if they are able to use enf and trader in these situations and perk everyone would the new group of perks not be a bit dangerous? I think there is more pvp perk damage in the agents arsenal than shades, it just has longer lockouts.

Remember you probly will not have to actually alpha anyone in the future to win, so if it takes 10 seconds for you to use all your perks (with intermitten stunning) it could still kill a lot of people.



@Ixiaan, 4k AR for enforcer is too much Top I believe is 3750ish AR with an incredible setup (non-gimped for AR only one) and that might be with the 2hb perk buffing AR. The enf in my sig has 3.4k AR with procs, ofab shoulder and offensive hud I think.

[Hacre]

I think a TL7 Agent in FP Enfo or Trader would probably kill me because I'd be too busy laughing to actually 12345 them to death.

[Alternity]

Thank you man in the sky for removing my post, was it because I mentioned arse, hooker or special olympics you found it to be your quest to remove it?

Or did my satire as a whole rub you the wrong way? That's ok dear there are no monsters under your bed..







They are in the friggin closet!

[Anarrina]

The amount of flaming in this thread is beyond out of control. The next time I have to come back here and clean it out, I'll most likely be bringing a lock key with me. Knock it off, please.

[srompu]

Back on topic, I propose useful modifiers be added to the Sharpshooter and Shadowsneak perklines. In addition, if deemed relevant, perhaps the modifiers on other perklines could be scaled to be more useful. The former is my true proposal though.

1. The current modifiers force a huge sacrifice if any other perkline is lost, and Agent AR is on the low side in currently viable PvP setups.
2. The current modifiers are rather poor.
3. This hasn't been of interest thus far because the perklines were useless, and the game was balanced to compensate for that.


This is not ultimately about Agent AR, but rather making these perklines useful.

[mr_road]

Ok, so let's swing the pendulum the other way since you want to be hard nosed about this.


40 perk points for an Enfo nets you: 200 of the weapon skill of your choice, 890 ACs, 7580 HP, 3% reflect, +80 damage shield, 49 Heal Delta, 4 weapon perks, 1 stun perk, 1 AoE damage perk, 1 debuff perk, 3 defense perks, 5 heal perks.


40 perk points for a Keeper nets you: 180 (soon to be 200) weaponskill, 2890 ACs, 3090 HP, 200 Evade, 100 Dodge and Duck, 3% reflect, +80 damage shield, 4 damage perks, 3 defense perks, 3 debuff perks, 5 heal perks.


40 perk points for an Agent nets: 55 sense, 400 hp, 3 crit, 200 rifle, 175 AS, 120 fling, 80 dodge, 50 duck/evade, 200 concealment, 90 damage, 2 useless perks, 2 snare perks, 2 damage perks you will never land on anything EVER, 2 perks with 3+ minute recharges, 3 perks with 5s+ executions, 4 perks with 3s+ executions, 1 stun perk.

you should have said hard nosed and biased.

you've listed the keeper and enfo perk actions with no value placed on their worth and then you've listed the agent perk actions with anything negative you can say about them.

also, there are fair few changes planned for the agent perk actions. why didn't you list them instead of the old ones which are going to be changed ?

[sultryvoltron]

you should have said hard nosed and biased.

you've listed the keeper and enfo perk actions with no value placed on their worth and then you've listed the agent perk actions with anything negative you can say about them.

also, there are fair few changes planned for the agent perk actions. why didn't you list them instead of the old ones which are going to be changed ?

Perhaps you noticed that every Agent perk was a damage perk, with the exception of one snare perk that only debuffs AC. There is not a single defensive perk option. There are obvious downsides that I didn't even need to mention regarding having only damage perks. I listed the disadvantages that I'm familiar with, since I can see no disadvantage to 5 heal perks and Coon.

You can nitpick details all you want, but the point remains the same. We perk 40 perk points for 200 AR and some damage perks. We don't have a single defensive perk action, and we barely get any defense out of our perks.

Almost every other profession perks 10 points for 200 AR and some damage perks (less, sure) and then spend 30 perk points into defensive lines. I could list any amount of pros and cons for each and every single perk, but the basic fact of availability is the same. Simply put, for Agents and defensive perks, there is no availability.

Really, the climax that this thread came too a while ago is this: The AR of all the Agent perk lines should be combined into a single line, perhaps specials into a seperate line, and that should leave 20 perk points for other, preferably defensive and even more preferably "Incognito" (copyright Lupus), options.

Are you following that without nitpicking details now?

[mr_road]

Perhaps you noticed that every Agent perk was a damage perk, with the exception of one snare perk that only debuffs AC. There is not a single defensive perk option. There are obvious downsides that I didn't even need to mention regarding having only damage perks. I listed the disadvantages that I'm familiar with, since I can see no disadvantage to 5 heal perks and Coon.

You can nitpick details all you want, but the point remains the same. We perk 40 perk points for 200 AR and some damage perks. We don't have a single defensive perk action, and we barely get any defense out of our perks.

Almost every other profession perks 10 points for 200 AR and some damage perks (less, sure) and then spend 30 perk points into defensive lines. I could list any amount of pros and cons for each and every single perk, but the basic fact of availability is the same. Simply put, for Agents and defensive perks, there is no availability.

Really, the climax that this thread came too a while ago is this: The AR of all the Agent perk lines should be combined into a single line, perhaps specials into a seperate line, and that should leave 20 perk points for other, preferably defensive and even more preferably "Incognito" (copyright Lupus), options.

Are you following that without nitpicking details now?

i wasn't nitpicking the details. i was nitpicking the way you presented the details.

mainly the way you listed the enf/keeper perks and then downplayed the agent perks.

the problem with agent perks is not the offensive options (especially regarding the future changes) but the fact you have no defensive options.

you made your points a lot better that time.

[Marinegent]

Really, the climax that this thread came too a while ago is this: The AR of all the Agent perk lines should be combined into a single line, perhaps specials into a seperate line, and that should leave 20 perk points for other, preferably defensive and even more preferably "Incognito" (copyright Lupus), options.

Hey hey.. I came up with the concept of the perk actions and benefits first! :P

Lupus just gave it a name and fine tuned it some.

[Lupusceleri]

Hey hey.. I came up with the concept of the perk actions and benefits first! :P

Lupus just gave it a name and fine tuned it some.

Actually, Onlymeh (Onlyman) first came up with it. And that was around one year ago.

But you were the first to further consider linking a whole new perkline to it, that is true.. back then we had no inkling that FC had any intentions at all of changing the perk system. Lightstalker was the first line introduced after Alien Invasion hit live hehe.

[Marinegent]

Actually, Onlymeh (Onlyman) first came up with it. And that was around one year ago.

But you were the first to further consider linking a whole new perkline to it, that is true.. back then we had no inkling that FC had any intentions at all of changing the perk system. Lightstalker was the first line introduced after Alien Invasion hit live hehe.

Oh. Hmm. Wasn't sure this idea was brought up before

Nevermind

[sultryvoltron]

Hey hey.. I came up with the concept of the perk actions and benefits first! :P

Lupus just gave it a name and fine tuned it some.

This happened alot if Math history. Someone creates this awesome proof or theorem, and someone else gets credit for it! Excluding the Bernoulli brothers (to which this happened constantly), go take a look at the history of the natural log, ln.

i wasn't nitpicking the details. i was nitpicking the way you presented the details.

mainly the way you listed the enf/keeper perks and then downplayed the agent perks.

the problem with agent perks is not the offensive options (especially regarding the future changes) but the fact you have no defensive options.

you made your points a lot better that time.

Glad I could clear it up then