OOC: What makes a guild great?

[_________Synthx J00r]

I was thinking about forming a new guild and would like to open a discussion about what makes a guild great. What types of guilds attract the greatest number of contributing players. What are the best types/styles of leadership?

Is it the name?
What about roleplaying vs non-roleplaying and in between?
What key elements must the website have?
How long does it take to go from start to full a full guild with active member roster and at least one base?
What are some creative ways to attract the right people and then screen them?
Is there a balance between humor and seriousness, and which is better?

RK1 or RK2? Omni vs Clan?

Thank you.

[Vixentrox]

Originally posted by Viosythe
I was thinking about forming a new guild and would like to open a discussion about what makes a guild great. What types of guilds attract the greatest number of contributing players. What are the best types/styles of leadership?

Is it the name?
What about roleplaying vs non-roleplaying and in between?
What key elements must the website have?
How long does it take to go from start to full a full guild with active member roster and at least one base?
What are some creative ways to attract the right people and then screen them?
Is there a balance between humor and seriousness, and which is better?

RK1 or RK2? Omni vs Clan?

Thank you.

OOC

What a HUGE topic and so many factors come into play. Greatness can be defined in many ways. Number of players, how famous, how rich, how politically active, how powerful.

You must first come up with a vision of what you want your guild to be. Do you want "uber d00ds and 1337 speakers"? Do you want RPers? Want a mix? What goals do YOU want to set?

Let me relate my experience from the formation of Whisper's Edge to where it is currently. This is from MY viewpoint so others may have seen things differently. WE started out fairly small with less than a dozen people who didn't like the way things were going in a previous guild. Part of it was the guild's politics, part of it the leader, and some of it was conflict between RPers and those that hated RP.

The original goals were to fix what we didn't like in the previous guild. With a lot of hard work the original members (even though most are gone I owe them my gratitude), a web page was put up, rules and structure were created, and a recruiting drive went underway.

It took a lot of work as I said and WE had about 40+ active members after about a month of formation I would guess. WE wanted to get mostly RPers but would take others. A lot of members were active a few weeks then went silent. Although people were still working to make the guild good, momentum was lost and some members started leavin. The advent of Notum Wars brought more challenges. Loosing some bases caused a lot of stress and we lost a couple members over it.

Time went on and there were more disagreements about what direction the guild should go. More people left
after "irreconsible differences" even after I had offered to step down and let those with the biggest complaints run the guild. They left, some of the best folks WE had. It was rough but WE recovered and IMO is much better than it was before. A lot of the earlist members recruited ended up leaving for other guilds becuase they wanted..better loot...better towers...more high level people to team with. Those things were all more important to them than RP was.

Slowly my vision for WE was coming around. The guild I wanted WE to become was one where RP was the prime concern for the members and all that other stuff secondary. WE changed it's recruitment policies to help make that happen and generally only accept RPers now. WE has gotten its strength back up to around 30+ active members and I am very pleased with the guild membership.


Now then...what makes a guild great? In my mind every EndGame guild, all the RP guilds are much greater than Storm, Synergy Factor, or other guild that don't RP. I'd quit the game before having to be in a guild like that. If your a dedicated RPer you might agree with me.

Now the people in Storm, SF, and others like them probably believe THEY are great becuase they have a trillion credits and every uber loot under the sun. Many would agree. They have done VERY well for themselves and probably think nothing but disdain about little RP guilds.

You asked about styles of leadership. Well, I think a lot of it deals on what your guild focus is. Just for a moment picture me in charge of Storm and Wolfe in charge of WE. Yes, hard I know! I don't think the members in either guild would follow the transplanted leader becuase we have different goals, desires, and ways of motivation tailored for our membership.

Role-playing vs non-rping vs combo. RPers are in short supply. If you want a huge guild built out of straight RPers, your dreaming. Getting a non-rper guild is much easier becuase those type of people are every where. A blend is good IF you can pull it off. The problem is getting the RPers and the non-rpers on the same page. A RPer isn't going to like the non-rper killing the town guard. The non-rper isn't going to understand why he should behave in a set fashion. I'm of the opinion it's best to keep them seperate though I know many won't agree with me.

Key elements to a website is a forum. Anything else is nice. A good website though can help with recruiting.

Obtaing a base. Sometimes you can just stumble into them. The problem is some bases are under constant attack it seems. Your membership might get tired of constanly running to defend a base.

How to attract people again depends on what sort of people you are looking for. Hosting parties at Reets might get you RPers but probably zero power gamers. Constantly making raids on unique mobs conversly will get you power gamers/loot whores but probably no RPers.

All in all you really have to decide for yourself what type of people you want to lead/associate yourself with. That will play a huge factor in how you set up, run, and organize, then sustain your guild. Good luck!

[Nevver]

The people in the guild make it great no matter what your interests or the direction you go in. That said, how you accept new members is probably one of the most important factors in getting a good group together.

In my guild, Devil's Advocate, we go through an entire process of having a person who is interested in joining fill out an application with a few questions ((at our website)). We read the application and if the person seems like someone that might be a good match, we set up an ((ingame)) interview and talk to them a bit and ask a few questions. After that, we vote.

Personally, for our style, we've never been concerned with how many people we had but who those people are. So, we've never actually actively recruited anybody and, as far as I know, all of our members approached us about joining. For that matter, I approached Thyme when I joined back when there were less than 10 people. As a result, not many people leave DA because they are happy there.

So, do yourself a favor and get people who will be a good match for the guild and you think the guild will be a good match for them. It's good to have numbers, but who makes up those numbers is more important.

[Boglwe]

As far as being a good leader, I think that is Key, A name can say a lot about your guild, Something like "Aces of Death" may not attract the person you might not be looking for in a guild" or VIce versa. BUt, I seem to see a great guild as A family. For that family to work and not be destructive to each other takes work from all people in the guild, from the Pres all the way to the peasent!!!
Here are some guidelines I am trying to follow as leader of Angels of Harmony www.sweetharmony.org
1)Flexible, "Open to change"
2)High Self Worth, and a sense of Identity for all people within the guild. (perfect example of this is the larger guilds losing members due to person feeling not finding a place within a clique)
3)Functional Defenses: How does a person defend him/herself when faced with a problem or situation?" "Is it constructive?"
4)Clear and precise RULES
5)Guild and individuals within the guild can take risks and gain support from other people within the guild and the guild itself!
6)Guild and people within the guild can deal with stress related situations and problems (IE: person/s leaving the guild, Warfair, undesired decisions)
7)Strong Leadership Coalition

As leaders and members and persons playing this game, all these things are constructive. Do not think we as people will not make mistakes along the path of any role you play within the game (I myself have broken some of these goals in the past.) Instead it should be a journey of self improvment and goal oriented behavior!!

Now here are some things that I have noted that can and will destory a guild
1)Rigid, Fixed stystems
2)Low self-worth within leaders and members
3)Compulsive Defenses
4)Secret and inhuman rules
5)Bizzare bahavior being ignored and tolerated
6)Denial of stress related situation and ingorence to problems

NOW, of course, this is not all linear guidelines and some things work and some things do not work. This is just a school of thought for better guild Experience!!! GOD SPEED TO ALL

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Viosythe
I was thinking about forming a new guild and would like to open a discussion about what makes a guild great. What types of guilds attract the greatest number of contributing players. What are the best types/styles of leadership?

Is it the name?
What about roleplaying vs non-roleplaying and in between?
What key elements must the website have?
How long does it take to go from start to full a full guild with active member roster and at least one base?
What are some creative ways to attract the right people and then screen them?
Is there a balance between humor and seriousness, and which is better?

RK1 or RK2? Omni vs Clan?

Thank you.

Interesting question and one that piques my curiousity. I'm really fascinated by the way that online societies and sub-socieites develop and evolve.

In the case of an organization... the right sort of name is very important. Your guild's name should be spelled correctly and capitalized as per a title (ie, all major words capitalized). It should also be somehow descriptive of your guild, if possible.

There are three keys to a website. The first is a clean, professional or semi-professional look. The second is a "news and updates" section where your guilds activities and plans can be chronicled. And the third - and most important of all - is a forum. You can run a guild alright if your web presence is just a forum. Without a forum, it is much more difficult.

An online application form, links, picture galleries, etcetera - these are good things that will imply to prospective applicants viewing your site that your guild is being run well.

It can take several weeks, to several months, depending on your definition of full active roster, and your ability to conquer a base. Note that many guilds go through cycles of membership growth, then member loss, over time. Also note that most guilds experience growing pains and mid-life crisis. It's most important to be able to deal with the growing pains and crisis, and less important to just have a lot of people on the roster.

To get the right people... the best way is to do what it is you do, and do it well. Attract applicants because they want to be a part of what your guild is and does, and they'll be people who'll do well with you and who want to stay.

I go for humor over seriousness. This is a game... it should be something enjoyable.

Leadership... I am a firm believer in leaders being decisive, yet exercising wisdom in making decisions. I feel the best overall structure for a guild, in terms of leadership, is the benevolent dictatorship. The guild's leader should keep as much authority as possible; officers, while useful and indeed necessary as a guild grows and matures, should be relatively weak and focus on specific tasks as much as possible, instead of general leadership. Many people can't handle the level of responsibility and authority that comes with being a guild officer, and you should think twice before promoting anyone to a position where they can /org kick.

I find that officers who aren't empowered to give commands are the best sort. Too many people in online games let their egos run away with them if they're given the power to order others around. This is something all leaders should be guarding against in their own persons, as well.

[Callantha]

Avoid the seven death sins
I'm serious!

[Kithraks]

"A leader derives their power from the people, power that is granted by their good will not because the leader thinks they are entitled to it no matter how much they like to believe otherwise."

That motto is what I've learned in running Red Tape(my first mmorpg guild) and keep in mind at all times. Leaders I've seen that forget or don't abide by that tend to fare poorly in my experience. Always let your members know that those in charge(if the guild isn't a dictatorship) that you're working for their welfare. As some have said earlier, the members you recruit is very important in defining the character of your guild.

Stay flexible and avoid the "better than thou" attitude/ego. Find a way to sort the bad apples out of the bunch and do what you think its best. It usually works out in the end.

[_______________Viray]

Now here are some things that I have noted that can and will destory a guild:

1) Rigid, Fixed stystems
2) Low self-worth within leaders and members
3) Compulsive Defenses
4) Secret and inhuman rules
5) Bizzare bahavior being ignored and tolerated
6) Denial of stress related situation and ingorence to problems

These should be engraved in stone somewhere.

One thing you can see about each of the recommendations above is a forum.

Well... I started a forum for my former guild, they still have it. However no one uses it. So if you intend to have one give them a reason to go there... some reason to get active on it, and hopefully it will work for you.

The best thing for any leader is patience and the ability to say "Please wait a moment." without fear of crushing someone. If an individual is going to be that sensitive not to simply wait for their turn then well... they may not be suitable for a social structure like a Org.

And sometimes you just have to give it a go.

[Katpaws]

I'll take a stab at this...

"What makes a guild great?"

I think the first thing is to define "great". To me, guilds exist for one reason, to make the game more fun for their players. When you have guild members who talk about how bored they were with the game before they joined, and how much fun they're having now, that's when you know you're being successful.

In the two guilds that I've played a leadership role in, I've had mmebers come up to me and say that they had never experienced anything like our guild on any other world they've played in. That's when I get up and do the "happy dance". Not because I suddenly have 50, 100, 200, etc. members. Not because we control some notum tower area, but because my members are having more fun playing because their part of my organization.

So, then, what's the key to that?

I think there are three things:

First, the guild needs a clear goal. I have been part of guilds before where the goal seems lost, maybe stated, but not pursued. Or guilds that had no purpose other than "folks getting together". Those are okay for a while, but people lose interest without the focus.

Second, the people of the guild make a HUGE differnce. In the Angels, we put a lot of focus no recruiting the "right" people. People who understand the focus (see point 1) and at least support the ideas even if they don't want to actively be part of making them happen. Trying to combine pure RPers with pure Power Gamers is a sure way to end up with a guild where nobody is happy.

Third, the leaders need to be ready and willing to put in the time. Running a guild takes a lot of commitment. Not everyone who thinks "Hey it might be fun to run a guild." should be a guild leader. Doesn't mean that leaders can't have fun too, of course.

In addition to being a leader in the Angels of Light and Angels of Harmony, I've been lucky enough to be a member in two very fine guilds on Rubi-Ka (Unity of the Rose and Whisper's Edge) [both of whom are represented in this thread] and I credit much of the success of those orgs to the leadership and their servant like attitude toward the guild. Even though both Szentasha and Vixentrox run their guilds from a position of power, there was never any doubt in my mind that what they were doing was for the guild, not for their own benefit. I've attempted to model my behavior as a guild leader after their excellent examples.

All the other stuff (website, forums, name, etc.) are good, and help toward building a cohesive guild, but withouth those three items (Focus, Compatible Members, and Servant Leaders) I don't think any guild will ever be considered "Great".

[BigGreen]

One of the most important things you can do IMHO is to adopt an attitude that the leadership is there to support the members, and not vice versa. There obviously needs to be rules and enforcement of those rules. However, if the guild membership believes that you are truly there for them and not because you have a big ego.
After that, I'd say make friends with as many other guilds as you can. That means RPer guilds and other non RP guilds. You cannot have too many friends as a guild! At the same time, if a guild does something that offends, don't ignore it just to be friendly. Address the issue if possible and ignore that guild otherwise.

I completely agree with Vixen about the importance of a forum. RP has European and US players and it's frequently impossible to all get together. Having a forum and a calendar of events is critical to running a guild effectively.

Stage Events as much as you can. People want more than just loot and socialising; group activities are much appreciated.

[Aimes]

*Disclaimer* I have never run, let alone started an org, my oppinions are just what I have seen and heard from people ingame as well as from my RL experiences working as part of a larger whole in both positions of authority and subordinance.

1: I have found that the best way to lead is to inspire trust and respect in those that you work with though your actions, rather than your words.

2: Quality over quantity, don't swell your roster simply for the sake of being the biggest, as a few bad people can tarnish both the reputation of your organization and your own as the leader. Likewise, avoid simply recruiting people "for the hell of it." If someone is invited out of the blue and joins, only to not be involved in the organization they become alienated, and lonely, and will eventually leave your organization (Alienating members should be avoided at all costs, as alieantion leads to apathy, which can grown to epidemic proportions in no time)

3: Inspire a sense of belonging and camaraderie with your fellow org mates by being an active and contributing member to the organization, even during the lean times. Though you may only have 8 people at any given time always put forth the effort as if you had a hundered. When people see others striving despite adverse circumstances they, for the most part, emulate that, and this will help your organization thrive.

4: Likewise, even though you may have a hundred people don't forget that the individual is the basis of any group, so don't be a distant leader.

5: Be clear in your goals but never forget that people are not set in stone, be flexible and accomodating, but not so much that it interferes with your vision of where your organization is going.

6: There will be difficult times, remember to keep your cool and think things through from all possible sides before you do or say anything you may regret later on, these situations can be avoided the majority of the time if you follow #2. However you never know what may happen, so keep your wits about you.

7: Delegate responsibility to those most well equpped to handle it, but retain your authority. On the flip side, simply because you have authoritarian muscle doesn't mean you should flex it when it's not needed

8: Finally and most importantly, have fun! If you find yourself hating every minute of running your guild and dread logging in take the opportunity to step down. Leadership is the pastime of egomaniacs and masochists anyway

[Boglwe]

I have to bump this thread, its just to good a question!!!

[Jorji-]

Originally posted by Boglwe


Now here are some things that I have noted that can and will destory a guild
1)Rigid, Fixed stystems
2)Low self-worth within leaders and members
3)Compulsive Defenses
4)Secret and inhuman rules
5)Bizzare bahavior being ignored and tolerated
6)Denial of stress related situation and ingorence to problems

I got as far as this quote and thought no need to read the rest (appologies to all that posted after) cause this sums it up entierly.

*bows before the wisdom in this post

[_________Lexusstreak]

I feel personally that a great guild should be balanced to fit your style of play, and have at least predominately people who feel the way you do. Me personally, what I seek in a guild, it has to have strong roleplay roots, but also understand that it is a game, and there are items in the game meant to be had by players...ok ok ok Loot is what I am talking about. I'm by no means a hardcore looter, but I've never been one to just sit on my behind ad rp 24/7. However, no guild I have ever seen so far cater to my style of play. it's either you are in a guild that hates power gamers and looters, *cough* WE *cough* or you are in a guild that loots and despises rp in any form *cough* storm *cough*
So far in games like AO, roleplaying and actually "playing" the game have been 2 different things and have never mixed well, I have seen many guilds break up or get severely split because they weren't flexible enough to cater to the two styles of play. I never found a guild personally that appealed to my particular play style so I remain guildless. Also a large reason I lost interest in AO, the huge seperatism between players, you either got made fun of for roleplaying or you were downed for liking loot at least as far as my own experiences have went.

I had a fading interest to begin my own guild that would try to do both, rp and also raid for items, there is actually very good rp reasons for doing so. "crippling the Omni outpost in avalon to cut off their supply lines etc" or "Killing Ian warr for his experimental armors" i however knew this was an unrealistic goal, cause as I said, power gaming and roleplaying rarely mixed, and I believe there are few high level people even interested in roleplaying. Sadly you'd come out better inviting the KKK to an ethnic picnic, cause in the end it'd be easier than having a guild that both RPs and raids.

[UwensBack]

Well I would like to personally say that I don't "despise power gamers". They're playing for fun same as me. And I don't mind looters either.

Oh, and the main thing that makes a guild great is Uwen.

What? Its true!

[Nevver]

Originally posted by Lexusstreak
...no guild I have ever seen so far cater to my style of play. it's either you are in a guild that hates power gamers and looters, [...] or you are in a guild that loots and despises rp in any form...
So far in games like AO, roleplaying and actually "playing" the game have been 2 different things and have never mixed well...

I never found a guild personally that appealed to my particular play style so I remain guildless. Also a large reason I lost interest in AO, the huge seperatism between players, you either got made fun of for roleplaying or you were downed for liking loot at least as far as my own experiences have went.

((Obviously you've never heard of teh ubar-guild called "Devil's Advocate."

We're not the best levelers or looters in the world, but most of us enjoy that aspect as well as roleplaying. We tend to not level very quickly/often, but we do like to do so and we also like to get nice equipment.

My experience has really been the opposite of what you have found, but I guess that's because I've been in DA for so long that I never really noticed that most RP guilds don't level very often even though I assume that most powerlevel/loot guilds don't RP. I think I would go crazy if I couldn't do both! Personally, I think there is waaaay too much to enjoy in AO to limit myself to just once facet of it.

By the way... Ding! Level 120! /strong4 ))

[equimon]

Originally posted by Charles
[B]"A leader derives their power from the people, power that is granted by their good will not because the leader thinks they are entitled to it no matter how much they like to believe otherwise."

I have to agree with you man, Kith. That's the lessonI've learned to, from running my 1st mmorpg guild, GPC Section Rubi-Ka, back in 2001, before I left and came back and changed the guild to what it ended like, GP Core. At least it worked, under my leadership, how it did in my absenc I don't know.
All I know is that it is dead.

So here's a couple of tips for you, from em, free of charge:
1 - Never leave the game for longer periods.
2 - If you leave the game, for a long period, do make sure the guild will survive till you get back, by gettign someone that are as dedicated that yourself are to keep the guild going.
3 - Try to stick with one sort of players. I.e: powerplayers tend to do alot of guild jumping, RP'ers tend to stick what they like and feel gives them the most of the RP expirience.

Anyways, good luck to the guy that needed ideas or what it was Ah, remember now, Viosythe it was, well good luck to you, from me, Silver E Thompon! I hope to see you getting it going for ya!

[_________Lexusstreak]

of course it would have been fun to make an in game sentinel guild, but I don't think there would be enough dedicated players to keep it going. would be nice though, sort of like Omni Pol. bah, me and my unrealistic aspirations.

[_______________Bliqz]

What makes a guild great is quite frankly, you.

It is such a subjective question that it cannot be answered twice in the same manner.

I would start by asking yourself what game you want to play...Levels > all...Loot > all...fun > all...? Where do you want to take your toon?

Look at web pages, read their forums, /tell people in the org and team with them...

The greatest guild is the one you fell most comfortable in.

[_________Synthx J00r]

Well I was willing to switch to Omni just to join DA but they wouldn't grant me an interview.