Why should he kite the pet if he can drain it up, then just switch to MP and drop him in a few sec, even with RRFE up?Quote:
Originally Posted by gaiatry
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Why should he kite the pet if he can drain it up, then just switch to MP and drop him in a few sec, even with RRFE up?Quote:
Originally Posted by gaiatry
Stun the shade and /pet follow to break his SP chainQuote:
Originally Posted by -Klod-
Root graft/perk root the shade and /pet follow to break the SP chain
Cast SS on yourself or someone other than the shade
MR and SA + the 3 big PM perks don't kill a Zset mp who is OB'd with RRFE
If NM, you are practically guaranteed not to die during MR alpha
Use Dazzle with lights after they drain pets and turn to you, combined with SS you're not going to get perked even by a drained shade with blur + nanite depravation
That's all, like, in a theoretical situation.
Right.
And in practice, your stun won't land, root graft will be dealt with in a second, you will counter SS on self (or you will accidentally cast it on other MP's heal pet - which will probably be buffed up with DoT C resist nano (yeah, some sick and perverted MPs actually do that)), if NM, you will never have coon ready for that pesky shade, your DWL will be in recharge at least 5 more seconds, which takes just enough for shade to perk you to death.
thats what seperates the men from the boys though, klod. You should take the advice from people better then yourself :)
from the shade's POV in practice:Quote:
Originally Posted by -Klod-
the stun lands just as MR pops, the root graft and kiting breaks the SP perks, PM perks are in recharge and the rain of AS's and nukes kill quickly.
This is pretty much the case for any melee fighting a keeper.. I would imagine even the best shades (or enfs) would have an extremely tough time vs a similarily equipped keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Righteous
This is pretty true though. I think if you finished your gear and got that "400 AAO and def" it'd be a pretty drastic change in PVP fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by rapp3d
Good shades are a nightmare for me, but having said that, a Solitus enforcer or an Agent are pretty 'easy' targets for shades.
If it can be perked it will usually die very fast.
It's awesome when as Shade you can enter fights unnoticed, you can really take down a bunch of people very fast and even if you become the target with dof limber and TR health drains you can last quite a long time. Than again if there are some AS profs or 1 NT it can go bad pretty quick.
Stun lasts for 5 sec (can be removed in 2 sec), MR is 10 sec. Rain of AS and nukes is pure nonsense. And also, why the hell you need MR for, if you are killing a bow MP?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_road
Not really, dont think i've ever met a keeper i couldent take down in a 1 on 1 (without MR and DR). But in mass pvp with multiple ppl running around keepers with rrfe can be hard to take down (But why kill the keepers first, hes not a threat anyway :S).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinkstaah
Klod got a good point :D Shield MP or Bow MP, they r all perkable self buffed without MR from a endgame shade. Now a shield mp with crat auras and rrfe, that would be harder :D not like they can kill shades anyway tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by -Klod-
I'll see your opi and raise you a Soli.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ownsauce
We'll assume I'm talking about top equipped and experienced pvp people. I've perked gimp fixers and tanked gimped agents while killing they're team etc etc. Profession means a lot but equipment/skill can mean so much more.
A good doc the fight is about even. The winner is decided some by skill, lots by timing, and a little luck thrown in for good measure. Perfect balance, they can kill us, we can kill them. Hard fight either way.
Engineers are the same as docs. They can kill us, we can kill them, same thing is involved to determine winner. Nicely balanced.
Mp's yeah ok bow mp's are easier to kill but we're easier for them to kill too. Either type of mp is a nice fight for a shade. Well balanced.
I don't have mongo rage so crats are a pain. One on one there is no contest, they will root me through tacky hack eventually and its game over. Best I've been able to do is kill them while they fight another or kill pets and survive them till they get bored. Not balanced but this is the free movment gimpyness of the shade combined with the op of roots. It should be fixed and crat fights will get more interesting for a non trox shade. Not balanced, future uncertain.
Fixers I've just seen such a huge range of setups, some I could kill some we couldn't kill each other, some they could kill me. Bottom line here though is root, if I kill them its because they wanted a fair fight and didn't root/run on me. Kudos to those fixers that made that choice, however the battle ended. Generally, not balanced.
Enforcers usually have MR so if its used they can splat us. If we drain them we can stand toe to toe and come out on top. Our drain nerf will hurt us a lot when dealing with an enfo but they have some nerf bat hits comin from what I understand. Time will tell how these fights end up. Balanced for the moment, future uncertain.
Advies well what can I say. The most memorable kills I've had were advies just because well christ I killed an advie without MR!! Problem is that happened a few times only and the advie probly went LD or something. So far from balanced I have a better shot at killing a gm.
Keepers I have mixed fealings about DR. Its evil, just plain evil. Not because they have to swap to get the top aura's back (we have to swap to cast top proc but our solution generally is...use a lower proc) But because its permanent. Problem is I haven't seen a keeper advocating a decent alternative. All want the temp aura to vanish for 15 seconds or something totally useless. With shade nano skill and keeper nano resist it takes longer then that to even land the thing. If keepers would go for 60 seconds of no aura's but keep the permanant part so they don't have to rebuff I'd be agreeable to that. Or even have a -1k evade nano? Or maybe -500? Would take time to land it but when it lands we can kill if they haven't killed us yet. That may balance it out.
That said once you strip aura's a keeper is done. The only thing not decided is if you need to run over and drain a soldier or something before ya come back and kill or if they are gimpy and you can just kill them outright. Sort of balanced, future uncertain.
Soldiers at the moment are balanced, we can kill them, they can kill us. The drain nerf will throw this all out the window since that was HOW it was like this. With all the other changes we don't know about there's not telling what will happen here. Balanced at the moment, future uncertain.
Agents at the moment are balanced. We can both use sneak to gain the advantage on each other. I'm more worried about what happens after the changes. We could very well end up with a insane advantage here if the heal nerf and as changes mess with them to much. Balanced but worried about the plight of agents post changes.
Ma's, hehe see advies above. can't hit them, they can hit us, can't heal, they can. Sure I've killed some good ones before, I have a broken clock that's been right before too. Not balanced.
Nt's and traders (honestly from a shade perceptive they are the same thing) these fights are interesting. Its a cat and mouse game. If we pounce on them, they die, if they pounce on us we die. these fights are just plain fun. Over in seconds, but still fun. That said balance doesn't even enter into the picture, its all about who see's who first and what outside buffs each have. Reflects/special blockers hp buffs any one of these completely changes the dynamic. I'd be interested to see how root changes affect these fights.
Non shades call us op, Shades cry about being gimp. I think this is because of perception. From the outside looking in you see us kill somebody in seconds. What your not see is shades are a one trick pony. We have perks and we have evades. If they don't deal with the situation, we got nothin. I don't even mean we have no nano to deal with this or that I mean nothing. We have crap comp lit so free movement stims are a joke. If it takes you 3 to break free it can take us 5 or more. We have the Nano resist of a back yard rollerrat. The lowest hp of any profession and if we get more we loose both our ar and defense.
Whats that you say? we can perk into sd or nr8 or etc etc. Sure if we give up both our ar and evades. I can't perk anybody, I get hit with everything but yeah I could handle roots then.
To top it off we have to choose between decent ar or decent evades
As for the shades crying for things, yes we need to deal with SOME of these issues, but from the outside we're crying to have everything. Imagine how it looks to have a doc who it takes a team to kill and a shade comes by and poof dead. We look just a bit OP then. Relize not all of our weaknesses will be delt with, some absolutely have to be there.
And a message to funcom...good luck. Shades ride a razors edge. Push us a little to far one way and we're the most op prof to ever happen, push a little to far the other and we're the gimpest. I'd say shades are going to be the hardest profession to get right in this whole ordeal.
These are the opinions of a PVP Solitus shade livin in an Atrox world.
Really? I would have thought good keepers would be unperkable for shades, and thus be practically impossible to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgly
If (non MR) shades can perk keepers now, then shades need a nerf if anything.
You can't be serious. It's balanced only if shade has its absorb in recharge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hematuria
AR geared shades can perk a good amount of keepers when they land Defeat righteous.
Your just baiting the other dude :PQuote:
Originally Posted by notcrattey
klod was posting silly stuff. thought i'd join in. MR because of the trader drain ofc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgly
mp's are only perkable if they stay in range. most seem to have pocket fixers.
pretty much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hematuria
as a shade you can get a lot of kills by draining up and jumping on people in the middle of group fights... but 1 vs 1 with no drains its a different story.
a shade can steam roll gimps easily. sure, any well equipped toon can kill gimps but with the dd shade's have it happens a lot quicker. but vs similarly equipped toons its a completely different fight and things are a lot more balanced, throw sync and run speed issues into the mix and it tends towards unbalanced.
Nah, (speaking duel wise).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinkstaah
Shades go full offensive and i'd end up with what .. 3,4k ar or something (not at home and cant remember exact numbers, its something around that) -200 clsc proc, 95% blur. Well timed and u can perk any keeper with that. Never had a problem with keepers tbh, ofc they hurt if u mess up timing since u go full offensive, but i got DR in my backpocket (never had to use it in a duel tho, dont like getting "You couldent beat me without DR?! nab" kind msg's, which ppl who lose always end up saying :/
Once roots and AS gets "fixed" i think shades will be in a good spot, dont think we need more then that tbh.
tbh i think all of u should read hematurias post carefully... shes prolly the best pvp shade i have met in BS.....
and i realy hate her on my trader ... (Hi hema --- Rensvind here :P)
and she knows how to use sneak etc to her adventage.
and i know how well she performs in BS by getting raped multiple times by her.
and yeah.. its a fact that shades gotta choose between AR/def but they can still be a very competitive profession in pvp if handled right.
I don't know if I honestly agree with this form an NTs perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hematuria
I survive Shade ganks a great deal more than I die simply from nanomage coon when I'm stunned and then NBG the second I free movement away the stun.
And in the mean time I've qued up Quark Containment Field/Pen. And then it's game over for the shade.