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Thread: New line of Nanos to help PVP

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Haminie View Post
    Wanna kill people? Hey guess what! There's THIRTEEN OTHER CLASSES YOU COULD ROLL!
    Sorry, but that is the answer I'd expect from a noob. "Roll another class". Urgh...I don't even know if it's worth answering that, can't begin explain to that mind of thinking...

    With recent patches and expansions all other profs have got something to either defend from doctors better with, or kill doctors better with.

    Doctors haven't got anything to kill other players with, or anything to defend themselves with either (whoo a debuff crat nano as an offence....).
    Want triples nerfed? Here is what you can do (Don't be so retarded to apply this to todays game)

    Server 1sts: Only NT, and probably non-doc to solo LOTV.
    First LB member to recieve org forum and guest chat ban on departure <3


    [Neophyte soldier]: I can see your nukes ignore AMS, keep doing it noob, I'm petitioning as we speak!

    WTB 2 Fixes for grafts
    PVP roots for all rooting classes

    Currently forced to enjoy RK4 (broken PC), I'll be back soon.

  2. #42
    Play smarter. Don't ask Funcom to give stupid players a better chance to not suck.
    Olivia "Haminie" Nguyen - Current Setup - 220 Doctor
    "Intrauterine" Device - Current Setup - 220 Shade


    Haminie - Slightly less than twice as uber as Chanelle

    To [Destromane]: I'm not a horrible player ;p
    [Destromane]: just a horrible person

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Haminie View Post
    Play smarter. Don't ask Funcom to give stupid players a better chance to not suck.
    Sorry, but your "just load up on nano init and NR" method isn't smart, any monkey could do it, and it still won't let you kill people any better, whoo you heal, whoo you heal again, and again, and again, and the second your opponent might drop in HP a tiny tiny bit he /moons and runs away laughing, comming back when he needs another laugh.
    Want triples nerfed? Here is what you can do (Don't be so retarded to apply this to todays game)

    Server 1sts: Only NT, and probably non-doc to solo LOTV.
    First LB member to recieve org forum and guest chat ban on departure <3


    [Neophyte soldier]: I can see your nukes ignore AMS, keep doing it noob, I'm petitioning as we speak!

    WTB 2 Fixes for grafts
    PVP roots for all rooting classes

    Currently forced to enjoy RK4 (broken PC), I'll be back soon.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Haminie View Post
    Play smarter. Don't ask Funcom to give stupid players a better chance to not suck.
    I want to play smarter on my doc and not just use one half of what many think a doc is supposed to do... (hint: Healing / DoT's, UBT's, Nuke's)

    If you are content with being half a doc (even if your are THE best at it), and that fits YOUR definition of a doctors role, fine... I would never try to stop you or anyone from that, but I and many others find that ONLY healing is boring, boring, boring... I also want to harm people, so it hurts them... preferrably BAD.

    Not saying I necessarily wanna kill them, but I wanna be able to really hurt them or make them unable to keep pounding on me or my team uninterrupted.

    - UBT is pretty much useless, due to all the specials.
    - DoT's.... What a joke in BS, due to cast time and recharge...
    - Nuke's...
    - Doc's attack rating.... sigh...
    - Corpse healing... double sigh...

    You have your singular definition of a doctors role... It does not fit mine and many others... and as it was also mentioned by Docya:
    Medical Lab (Doctor)
    Physical manipulation, to heal or to harm.
    That is my point of view... It may not fit yours, but I still respect your decision on how you wan't to play your doctor.
    I do NOT however, respect the way you respond to other peoples concerns about a profession they obviously care a lot about.

    I really hope that you are not a person that FC listens too much to, because you are the ONLY doctor I have run into with your singular definition of a doctors role.
    There may be others, but I haven't met them. I have however met a lot with another opinion than yours and I am one of those.

    This very evening I was talking to someone in a team in Ado (playing my fixer), and we came to talk about this issue, and in the end he asked "Why do you even play on BS then???"

    I answered: "Because it's the most efficient way to get the VP's I need, to get the equipment I want. The second I have the VP I need, I will never set foot on board BS again... with my Doc..."

    That pretty much sums it up, how I feel about playing doc on BS atm. Another grind.


    Edit: On topic...
    A suggestion I don't think I have seen is:
    We have UBT that pretty much just works for normal hits/damage. What about a nano that would slow down specials severely? A kind of specials UBT.

    Not sure how it could be done, but what would happen to the recharges on specials if we had a nano that did something like:
    Aimed shot skill -2000
    Full auto skill -2000
    Burst skill -2000
    Fling shot -2000
    Sneak attack skill -2000
    Fill up with any other that are prolly missing...

    There may be other specials that this does not work on, but maybe something similat could be done to those... Like perk attacks and such... (it should hurt keepers too, just before you get started )

    Wouldn't a specials debuff result in severely lower recharge times and damage from specials?

    Anyway... just an idea I've been wondering about.
    Last edited by Mekh; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 01:41:55.
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  5. #45
    Mekh, pretty spot on.

    And, doc is imbalanced atm.

    We don't have the survivability to compensate for our current lack of offense, if fc wants us to be heal/tank in pvp.

    Or the defense is decent, but our offense is seriously fubared, if fc wants us to have fun in pvp.

    Hitting up triple dots takes longer time then the average time anyone lives after contact between two groups happen.
    It also leave us defenseless for a short period of time, tho we can get enough hp to perhaps survive that defensive downtime.
    After the first dot lands people start running.

    And in situation marginally in favor of a doc, this is what we get:

    Damaged, AS + Heal, 4s, first dot (3-4 sec), more damage, heal (4s), aimedshot around here, second dot (3-4 sec), more damage, heal (4s), last dot (3-4s), more damage, heal, perk perk perk, as, go hope while heal recharge (4s). (Or rather let the dots work a bit wearing them down before you perk perk perk perk, rite, and throw a last as)

    That's 21-24 seconds. Almost half a minute. And this is with some luck.

    What usually happens during this time:
    Shade/agent/ma/soldier/enforcer/fixer pops out of sneak and hit you with 1-3 40% specials. (Advs/keepers are too busy coon capping points)
    Some from your side kills your target (well, fine for the side, boring for you)
    You get 300 ncu worth of debuffs.

    And regarding ubt, this only hurts heals and pets atm.
    Which means us, agents and advs. + Pet profs

  6. #46
    Suggestion for discussion:

    PvP version of UBT

    EDIT:
    Reduced numbers since people went crazy over those I had there...
    Let me make it clear: I'm making a suggestion here which aim is the effect. I have no idea whatsoever about what the real numbers should be in order to not make them overpowered.
    See them as a basic idea... Should nano's with the proposed effects make it into game, I'm pretty sure FC have the ability (?) to choose some apropriate numbers.
    This goes for all 3-4 suggestions I've made.


    Code:
    Nano: 	Uncontrollable Insta-gank Obliterator
    
    Attack time	5s 
    Recharge time	3s 
    Duration	120 seconds
    Range		20 m
    
    Attack skills
     Psychological modifications	50 % 
     Biological metamorphosis 	50 % 
    
    Defense skills
     Nano resist			85%
    
     Target Modify 	Projectile damage modifier	-100
     Target Modify 	Melee damage modifier		-100
     Target Modify 	Energy damage modifier		-100
     Target Modify 	Chemical damage modifier	-100
     Target Modify 	Radiation damage modifier	-100
     Target Modify 	Cold damage modifier		-100
     Target Modify 	Fire damage modifier		-100
     Target Modify 	Poison damage modifier		-100
    
     Target Modify 	Aimed shot 			-750
     Target Modify 	Full auto			-750
     Target Modify 	Burst 				-750
     Target Modify 	Fling shot 			-750
     Target Modify 	Sneak attack			-750
     Target Modify 	Brawl 				-750
     Target Modify 	Dimach 				-750
     Target Modify 	Any other skill for specials	-750
    Unbreakable/Unmovable and for use in PvP...

    EDIT: Maybe in same line as UBT, so you have to choose bewteen them, depending of what prof your target is?
    Last edited by Mekh; Apr 3rd, 2007 at 16:03:41.
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  7. #47
    PvP version of "First-Degree Burns" (nuke)

    Code:
    Intestine Incinerator
    The target is hit with a malignent cocktail of various chemichals, which
    causes instant major burn damages to the targets skin, after which
    it enters the bloodstream and causes severe intestine inflammation
    crippling the target for a short while.
    
    School  	Combat
    
    Attack time  	6s
    Recharge time 	11s
    
    Range  	25 m
    
    Attack skills
     Biological metamorphosis	52 %
     Matter creation		48 %
    
    Defense skills
     Nano resist 			60 %
    
    Effects
     On Use
      Target Hit Health 	Fire	-3000..-7000
      Target Hit Health 	Poison	 -500.. -500 	 5 hits, 2s delay

    Damage numbers chosen are pretty random, so obviously up for discussion...
    Last edited by Mekh; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 08:57:06.
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  8. #48
    lol 11s recharge, that's a bit too much to be of any use. i use it with 2s recharge

  9. #49
    PvP DoT

    Code:
    Intestine Incinerator
    The target is hit with a malignent cocktail of various chemichals, which causes instant major burn damages to the targets skin, after which it enters the bloodstream and causes severe intestine inflammation hurting the target for a short while.
    
    School  	Combat: Doctor DOT line A
    
    Attack time  	7s
    Recharge time 	5s
    
    Range  		25 m
    
    Attack skills
     Biological metamorphosis	53 %
     Matter creation		47 %
    
    Defense skills
     Nano resist			100 %
    
    On Use 	Target 	Hit 	Health 	Poison -800 .. -800 	 15 hits, 8s delay
    	Target 	Modify 	Martial arts 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	1h Blunt 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	1h Edged 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Melee energy 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	2h Edged 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Piercing 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	2h Blunt 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Sharp objects 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Grenade 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Heavy weapons 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Bow 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Pistol 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Rifle 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Smg 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Shotgun 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Assault rifle 	-200 	 
    	Target 	Modify 	Ranged energy 	-200
    Again... Damage numbers chosen pretty random...
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by roughead View Post
    lol 11s recharge, that's a bit too much to be of any use. i use it with 2s recharge
    Reason for recharge is so it won't be all too powerfull... afterall we are doc's, not NT's, and we still have the ability to use a weapon alongside this one. (allthough we won't hit much with it)
    I pretty much wanted a weaker nuke version of AS... Therefore the ability to insta-cast with a low defense check, but long recharge instead...
    I want to make people actually notice they have been hit.
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  11. #51
    PvP-UBT
    I really dunno about the suggested one. First off do secondary requirement on weapons not count for OE too? making all weapon OE wouldn't be prudent.
    secondly it's too unfair a system if you ask me.
    Land it before the specials land and you just lowered their AR for specials that check against evades by 1000 points. ( (Weaponskill + specialskill)/2 + AAO iirc )
    Second is the way the recharge speed is calculated. Let's say you land it before they use specials (burst) then they have a increased recharge speed when they use it. (88s burst instead of 8 for example.)
    But if they use their specials, they recharge, and then you land the nano - then the specials will still be back in normal time until their next use.
    Unlike inits the recharge of specials is static and doesn't change dynamicly during recharge making the use this nano ..weird.. to use at least.

    Assuming it would "just" increase the recharge of special skills - without changing their AR / OR weapons - it would be like UBT a protection from damage over time. Though I still have concerns how it would affect mass pvp even then in the alpha based pvp system we have now. (the current +80s on burst for example would just be over the top)

    PvP version of "First-Degree Burns"
    That's nice one. The 11s recharge are hard but looking at the stats it seems more like a finisher to me. That what we docs miss. the last bit of damage to kill off profs with low hp. Also without that recharge it would be easy to chain cast it so that prevents it.
    The min damage could be a bit higher i think. 1500-3500 pvp damage in the alpha part makes it a bit unreliable considering the recharge. I would trade a bit higher min damage for a bit longer recharge even as then it gives me the chance to finish off professions. If I fail though, i'm in deep **** and have to burn up perks - as it should be.

    PvP DoT
    That's a interesting dot.
    It's like a upgraded version to Wrack and Ruin. Something i wanted quite often.
    It features what i wanted from a pvp dot, a debuff, good damage tick and most important long duration with a reasonable cast time.
    The high damage tick at a higher interval makes it less predictable in pvp, one major weakness of our dots. The tick interval is too realiable.
    I like it.
    At first I thought the damage could be a tad bit higher but that's where we have our long cast dots for, while this provides steady damage and debuff over a good length of time.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 09:39:31. Reason: typos
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    PvP-UBT
    Let's say you land it before they use specials (burst) then they have a increased recharge speed when they use it. (88s burst instead of 8 for example.)
    I think that is the point of the imaginary "new" ubt As Siorai has mentioned before.. if name is "uncontrollable body tremors". It doesnt make sense that, if your body has tremors and you have trouble attacking at normal speeds or casting nanos normally.(because your whole body is shaking) That you can instantly stop shaking and do a perfectly aimed shot with no side effects and then return to the tremors.

    Atleast that sounds very weird to me. It would be truly be insanely annoying for the target it lands on, but i can also say the same for roots etc.. =P And it would for sure help us to once again be able to outsurvive our target, which was the only option we ever had if we were suppose to kill anyone. And currently VERY hard to do in BS considering the surroundings. It can take several minutes to do the dance of survival, which opportunity rarely gives.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    PvP-UBT
    I really dunno about the suggested one. First off do secondary requirement on weapons not count for OE too? making all weapon OE wouldn't be prudent.
    secondly it's too unfair a system if you ask me.
    Land it before the specials land and you just lowered their AR for specials that check against evades by 1000 points. ( (Weaponskill + specialskill)/2 + AAO iirc )
    Second is the way the recharge speed is calculated. Let's say you land it before they use specials (burst) then they have a increased recharge speed when they use it. (88s burst instead of 8 for example.)
    But if they use their specials, they recharge, and then you land the nano - then the specials will still be back in normal time until their next use.
    Unlike inits the recharge of specials is static and doesn't change dynamicly during recharge making the use this nano ..weird.. to use at least.

    Assuming it would "just" increase the recharge of special skills - without changing their AR / OR weapons - it would be like UBT a protection from damage over time. Though I still have concerns how it would affect mass pvp even then in the alpha based pvp system we have now. (the current +80s on burst for example would just be over the top)
    ...snip...
    My intention with that nano would be exactly what you describe... Getting them into OE and make them have a long recharge... Thereby hurting them BAD, without actually doing anything to their HP.
    With the toolset I have proposed here they still have every chance to run off, if they so choose before we can do anything else to them. Also... It does not stop them from requesting help from others and/or using assist command.

    My idea for the duration was concieved from the idea, that thats about the time I need to get back from decon room, when they would usually have killed me, thereby giving somewhat the same penalty/annoyance...

    Edit:
    Also notice that it does not have the same modifiers as the ordinary UBT. Meaning it has no penalty to initiatives. This means that Doc's, advy's, Agents and MA's still have their healing abilities unchanged by it. They are "just" damage crippled.
    Last edited by Mekh; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 14:19:24.
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  14. #54
    Another idea...

    I think that most can agree that unless you join BS with some friends, it is very hard to get into a team as a doc...


    Proposal for another nano:

    Code:
    Team Saver
    The effect of this nano is a team removal of PvP-UBT and Dot's
    
    
    School  	Healing
    
    Attack time  	12s
    Recharge time 	4s
    
    On Use 
     Remove PvP-UBT and all DoT's currently running on all members of the team
    In case the PvP-UBT or similar found it's way into AO, I believe the nano provided here might motivate more people to invite a doc into their team.

    Again... remember this is just ideas... numbers are pretty much random, but given as examples.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Docya View Post
    I think that is the point of the imaginary "new" ubt As Siorai has mentioned before.. if name is "uncontrollable body tremors". It doesnt make sense that, if your body has tremors and you have trouble attacking at normal speeds or casting nanos normally.(because your whole body is shaking) That you can instantly stop shaking and do a perfectly aimed shot with no side effects and then return to the tremors.

    Atleast that sounds very weird to me. It would be truly be insanely annoying for the target it lands on, but i can also say the same for roots etc.. =P And it would for sure help us to once again be able to outsurvive our target, which was the only option we ever had if we were suppose to kill anyone. And currently VERY hard to do in BS considering the surroundings. It can take several minutes to do the dance of survival, which opportunity rarely gives.
    Err yes. I understand that fully. Maybe i should have been more clear. What I pointed out was not the intented function but the system.

    Let's say a fixer AS, Fling, Burst and Fa's you and THEN you land the nano.
    8s later burst and fling have recharged, 11 later AS and 90s later Full Auto. The Nano doesn't affect the current recharge but is only "in effect" when the specials get pressed.
    So if you don't get the nano off before that the current recharge is unaffected.

    It also work the other way around. It lands on someone right before they use a special and they die. Nanoprogramm is not in their NCU but their normal 11s special is still locked for 90second.

    The technical issues were what i wanted to point out.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 14:36:05. Reason: added quote
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    My intention with that nano would be exactly what you describe... Getting them into OE and make them have a long recharge... Thereby hurting them BAD, without actually doing anything to their HP.
    With the toolset I have proposed here they still have every chance to run off, if they so choose before we can do anything else to them. Also... It does not stop them from requesting help from others and/or using assist command.

    My idea for the duration was concieved from the idea, that thats about the time I need to get back from decon room, when they would usually have killed me, thereby giving somewhat the same penalty/annoyance...

    Edit:
    Also notice that it does not have the same modifiers as the ordinary UBT. Meaning it has no penalty to initiatives. This means that Doc's, advy's, Agents and MA's still have their healing abilities unchanged by it. They are "just" damage crippled.
    Well OEing weapons does more then "nerf" the damage a bit. -2000 equalls 0% effective. The shots and specials won't do any damage at all. The Targets might as well de-equip the weapons as they are only left with perks.
    I understood that the idea were to slow Specials recharge and commented about the problems with the posted idea of how to implement it.

    If we were able to 0% OE people's weapons and make them loose their specials for 120 second 90% of the profession wouldn't be able to touch us anymore.
    Ridiculous overpowered.


    PS:
    Also there is the issue with the recharge time not being dynamicly as i wrote in the post above. Removing the "pvp-ubt" would allow them to use their weapons again but specials would still be locked in recharge.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 14:48:28.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    Well OEing weapons does more then "nerf" the damage a bit. -2000 equalls 0% effective. The shots and specials won't do any damage at all. The Targets might as well de-equip the weapons as they are only left with perks.
    I understood that the idea were to slow Specials recharge and commented about the problems with the posted idea of how to implement it.

    If we were able to 0% OE people's weapons and make them loose their specials for 120 second 90% of the profession wouldn't be able to touch us anymore.
    Ridiculous overpowered.


    PS:
    Also there is the issue with the recharge time not being dynamicly as i wrote in the post above. Removing the "pvp-ubt" would allow them to use their weapons again but specials would still be locked in recharge.

    OK... That's where the discussion part comes into play, and why I said that the numbers were more or less random.
    If that's the case then the debuffs should be lower ofc. Priority is the idea in general, not the exact numbers, which I'm sure FC can/will figure out for themselves...

    Regarding specials recharge... Lower debuffs would result in less penalty on that as well I suppose.

    If the penalty carries over when they have died, even if their NCU have been wiped, then I can definitely see a problem with it.

    Regarding your PS... but only for the current cycle, right?
    Last edited by Mekh; Apr 2nd, 2007 at 15:02:07. Reason: correcting some messy stuff I made :)
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  18. #58
    Double post...
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    OK... That's where the discussion part comes into play, and why I said that the numbers were more or less random.
    If that's the case then the debuffs should be lower ofc. Priority is the idea in general, not the exact numbers, which I'm sure FC can/will figure out for themselves...

    Regarding specials recharge... Lower debuffs would result in less penalty on that as well I suppose.

    If the penalty carries over when they have died, even if their NCU have been wiped, then I can definitely see a problem with it.

    Regarding your PS... but only for the current cycle, right?
    Yeah, don't get me wrong i'm not opposed to the idea of making recharges recharge slower. I like it - there are just many issues with it.
    For the idea FC would need to invent a mechanism that works. Lowering Special skills to increase the recharge works with the limitations and problem i posted.
    Brawl for example is 15 regardless of skill and the debuff would lower it's damage instead. So are Backstabd and Sneak attack fixed skills. Non-MA Dimach is fixed too but seeing as it's a long recharge allready...
    Also many perks use these skills at attack skill. Aor example agent perks use AS and it would take AS and their perks from agent.

    Yeah, the lock would only be for the current cycle but it stay till they are recylced, and yeah lower debuffs would make for less recharge on the specials affected by skills. But considering the debuffs can't be that high or risk making the weapons too OE it will hardly affect the recharge.
    Recharge also varies greatly by Weapon and special so it might be unfair that one specials increases by say 20 sec while another specials increases by 80 secs.


    In the past Skill Lock modifier used to affect special recharge. It also works on a % base. Something similar to that might be a solution maybe, though in any case it means FC will have to code it, so i'm not sure how high our chances of convincing FC to implement it are.
    But I'm highly against it lowering specials skills as the whole community will rise with nerf doctors cries if that happens, or the debuffs are so low it's not worth using.
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  20. #60
    I believe there would be another variable other than lower the special skill itself (I hope). Something like Aimed shot recharge -30.
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