Nanite Enhanced Nano Shutdown and PVP

[electronite1]

Few months ago I started a thread about MP pvping against different professions. I made couple of suggestions/examples how to defeat different professions. At the time my knowledge of pvp was not much but since then I have gained a lot of experience and for my own surprise the strategies I suggested were pretty much correct and functional even if I was pretty much nailed by more "experienced" pvpers. Noone seemed to believe in the pwning power of new ENSD.

From experience I can say ENSD is pretty much the best nano mp has in pvp especially if you are wielding shield. Bow mps could consider ss maybe better due to their different approach. I'll give some examples. Following examples are from shield mps point of view.

Doctor: Definately best strategy is to ENSD them. Docs can remove ENSD once or twice but that is it and after that they go down. So far I have not met single doc who can survive this.

Soldier: If catched unguard ENSD is the best strategy since after AMS is prevented solja is dead meat. On the other hand even if solja could cast AMS mp is pretty much forced to ENSD soldier in order to prevent AMS cycle.

Trader: ENSD is pretty much a must or you get affected by grand theft humidity, which practically means game is lost.

Adventurer: ENSD is the best and probably only way to take adventurer down. Few tricks can be used to support the strategy but won't go into details. First of all ENSD prevents healing but also prevents advie to calm healpet, which is very important as well.

Agent/fp doctor: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Agents can't take much of a beating so one has to be able to keep pets attacking and this can be prevented by agents snares etc. Therefore ENSD not only prevents healing but also prevents pets being immobilised.

Crat: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Pets will be rooted etc. and same goes to yourself if crat is allowed to cast his nanos.

NT: ENSD is very risky as it is very hard to land and probably you just get tripled instead. End result would depend much on AR vs NR. In a duel it would be a huge risk to try this strategy since recovering from ENSD takes too much time. As a side note MP being NT nemesis is a joke when in reality it is often vice versa.

Enforcer: Not very familiar of the consequenses and would probably consider SS as best weapon against enfo.

Engineer: ENSD works like a charm. Engi loses control of pets, which allows you to root them with grafts or maybe with perk if trained. Prevents also debuffs etc.

MP: If you are facing bow MP SS is probably best weapon since mp with bow can't take the beating like shield mp. Against shield mp ENSD is great. Prevents debuffing etc. NSD removers can spoil the fun a bit but still worth trying.

MA: No need for ENSD since MA can't take pets beating for too long with mediocre heals. SS is therefore better since MA's have several special attacks.

Shade: Same as with MA. SS is better.

Fixer: If you are about to beat a fixer in pvp ENSD is a must. If you can't ENSD fixer there is no way to keel them. Pets will be rooted before you know and things will get difficult.

Keeper: No effects as far as I know. SS ftw.

All the strategies were tested in combat and found funcional. ENSD rox !!

*added afterwards

Ps. In reality ENSD is a must against majority of the other professions and in many cases the only way for victory.

Pps. One reason to start the thread was to ridicule especially with Chrys and Kuz since their egos prevent them being either polite or presenting facts in good spirit but they act merely as pompous themselves. Applause to these great ePeen dudus. The answers and the spirit they have already given and shown only confirms my beliefs right. I rest my case.

[Chrys]

You're still trying to beat this dead horse?

In the last thread about this, SoZ wasn't in game, so whatever it is you're trying to prove is pointless because different builds have different playstyles.

I haven't played a shield MP, but you've pretty much demonstrated why shield MPs are a stupid duelling profession and nothing else.

And quotes like

Soldier: If catched unguard ENSD is the best strategy since after AMS is prevented solja is dead meat. On the other hand even if solja could cast AMS mp is pretty much forced to ENSD soldier in order to prevent AMS cycle.

show exactly how little you know about the way other profs works. Here's a clue: if a soldier hits AMS, he NSDs himself, and you trying to land it after that is er, not terribly useful

Anyway, the reputation about shield noobs is there already, the more you open your mouth, the more you prove everyone's opinion about them

[electronite1]

Here's a clue: if a soldier hits AMS, he NSDs himself, and you trying to land it after that is er, not terribly useful

???

Dude get a grip. Can you not comprehend what AMS cycle means? And you claim being an expert? I will try to say it in a simple way so you can understand also.

1. AMS has a certain duration. 1min 20s during, which he/she is practically NSDed like you say. Also Nano skills inoperative is the side effect of casting AMS, which is the soft point of soldiers defence. You must have a counter preferrably macro to count for example 1min 55 secs. At this point you land ENSD 2. You don't want AMS being recasted by soldier.(here recasting means 2nd time to cast AMS or third depending on the situation etc.) 3. You ENSD soldier in order to prevent soldiers second AMS. 4. Keep solja ENSDed and watch him die.

Also that is the idea of it. In practise it not so simple but nonetheless preventing AMS is a great way to exploit soljas weakness.

[buka]

if u ENSD an engi the pet will continue to attack(unless Noob and tryed to command the pet under NSD (good VS blinds tho , blind pets = 0 DMG)

[Chrys]

???

Dude get a grip. Can you not comprehend what AMS cycle means? I will try to say it in a simple way so you can understand also.

1. AMS has a certain duration. 1min 20s during, which he/she is practically NSDed like you say. Also Nano skills inoperative is the side effect of casting AMS, which is the soft point of soldiers defence. You must have a counter preferrably macro to count for example 1min 55 secs. At this point you land ENSD 2. You don't want AMS being recasted by soldier.(here recasting means 2nd time to cast AMS or third depending on the situation etc.) 3. You ENSD soldier in order to prevent soldiers second AMS.

Ok, so you meant that you use it in a certain specific situation only, something nobody has ever disagreed with you about

[electronite1]

if u ENSD an engi the pet will continue to attack(unless Noob and tryed to command the pet under NSD (good VS blinds tho , blind pets = 0 DMG)

True. But the novelty is here. You have the means to root pets with either graft or perk. Important here is not to use grafts after first or second ENSD but only after third, which prevents engi releasing them for good assuming ENSD can be kept running.

[Spart]

???

Dude get a grip. Can you not comprehend what AMS cycle means? And you claim being an expert? I will try to say it in a simple way so you can understand also.

1. AMS has a certain duration. 1min 20s during, which he/she is practically NSDed like you say. Also Nano skills inoperative is the side effect of casting AMS, which is the soft point of soldiers defence. You must have a counter preferrably macro to count for example 1min 55 secs. At this point you land ENSD 2. You don't want AMS being recasted by soldier.(here recasting means 2nd time to cast AMS or third depending on the situation etc.) 3. You ENSD soldier in order to prevent soldiers second AMS. 4. Keep solja ENSDed and watch him die.

Also that is the idea of it. In practise it not so simple but nonetheless preventing AMS is a great way to exploit soljas weakness.

If you are a shield MP, and the soldier has killed your whiner, how are you going to kill him? Obviously with the recharge time on it, you won't get any damage dished out aside from whatever perks you might have to keep him fully NSDed the whole time.

[electronite1]

Ok, so you meant that you use it in a certain specific situation only, something nobody has ever disagreed with you about

Lol You remind me of Monty Pythons scetch Argument. You obviously want to contradict me, no matter how little evidence or logic the claims you make have, just for the sake of argument.

To stay in topic: let's say just for the sake of argument other man is aka Chrys

Man:I came here for a good argument!
Other Man : AH, no you didn't, you came here for an argument!
Man: An argument isn't just contradiction.
Other Man: Well! it CAN be!
Man: No it can't!
Man: An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
Other Man: No it isn't!
Man: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.
Other Man : Look, if I "argue" with you, I must take up a contrary position!
Man: Yes but it isn't just saying 'no it isn't'.
Other Man:Yes it is!

Also you made a false analogy of a dead horse when it was alive and kicking all the time. ENSDs pwning power as such has not changed but shield only makes utilization safer and more effective.

[electronite1]

If you are a shield MP, and the soldier has killed your whiner, how are you kill him? Obviously with the recharge time on it, you won't get any damage dished out aside from whatever perks you might have to keep him fully NSDed the whole time.

That is a good question. And also this is the weak point of MPs ENSD strategy. First aim ofc is to have rihwen ready for the action when AMS break is closing. There are several ways to prevent / decrease the damage taken by Rihwen, which could save it from its cruel destiny.

1. Hold Rihwen back incase soldier attacks it. You don't want Rihwen to take any extra dmg from reflections. This is a two edged sword tho since during this time only dmg done to soldier comes from perks. Also not sure if Rihwen can be saved in first place so all could have been invain.
2. Put heal pet on Rihwen for extra heal.
3. Debuff soldier with dmg and iniative debuffs.
4. Stun soldier with CoC and if possible with Freak str. Actually Freak str could be the key to beat soljas nowadays since their evades have decreased significantly. Strategy will most likely be feasible only by Atrox mps since stuns landing is dependent on str vs 50% evade close.

Those r some ideas to think about but things don't go so smoothly in practise. Solja for sure is not easily beaten by shield mp but is prolly quite even match.

PS. As a side note MP has NSD research proc. Nanobot Contingent Arrest, which could offer some help in the execution as well. Unfortunately still personally missing sk for it so can not confirm how it works in practise.

[Chrys]

Ok, I bow to your superior knowledge of ENSD, your obvious pvp skillz and sheer ability to understand what everyone else is talking about.

The first time round, you came here hollering about how "NSD if lands gameover". The response was "It's not so simple". You read it as "Nowai NSD suxxx". A few months later you come back with a thread that basically says "I R PVP & ENSD ROXXORZ U NUBS" and my response is...































Meh.

[kuznechik]

Doctor: Definately best strategy is to ENSD them. Docs can remove ENSD once or twice but that is it and after that they go down. So far I have not met single doc who can survive this.

Well, somehow I miss why doc will need to cast nanos. He'll be kiting pets, ASing you now and then, maybe he'll perk/dot your healball to death once you fail landing NSD once with 10 sec recharge or they remove it and you're still in recharge.

Soldier: If catched unguard ENSD is the best strategy since after AMS is prevented solja is dead meat. On the other hand even if solja could cast AMS mp is pretty much forced to ENSD soldier in order to prevent AMS cycle.

R u nubi? With solds you'll meet either NR2 NR-perked ones or not NR-twinked ones. For not NR-twinked ones regular NSD>eNSD due to nano time. For NR-perked ones... Well, it still better cause once you land it - it sticks, instead of failure to land with 10 sec recharge.

Adventurer: ENSD is the best and probably only way to take adventurer down. Few tricks can be used to support the strategy but won't go into details. First of all ENSD prevents healing but also prevents advie to calm healpet, which is very important as well.

R u nubi? Calming healpets is kinda old-school for advs. You got IPA/PA and they got their calms nerfed.

Agent/fp doctor: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Agents can't take much of a beating so one has to be able to keep pets attacking and this can be prevented by agents snares etc. Therefore ENSD not only prevents healing but also prevents pets being immobilised.

And still nubi. Or I missed the point where agents got insane NR

Crat: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Pets will be rooted etc. and same goes to yourself if crat is allowed to cast his nanos.

If you want to stay stunned while Carlo **** you slowly - cast ENSD. Otherwise - SS is better option, just to avoid proc stuns. And btw - SS have some nifty root/snare resist in it.

Enforcer: Not very familiar of the consequenses and would probably consider SS as best weapon against enfo.

Engineer: ENSD works like a charm. Engi loses control of pets, which allows you to root them with grafts or maybe with perk if trained. Prevents also debuffs etc.

I'm ready to present you with my engi as ensd target. It will practically kill me. Due to laugh. Especially "also prevents debuffs etc" part. Selling clues, cheap... Only active debuff engi can cast is our nemesis nano, "target must be fixer"

Fixer: If you are about to beat a fixer in pvp ENSD is a must. If you can't ENSD fixer there is no way to keel them. Pets will be rooted before you know and things will get difficult.

Omg, I really dunno, maybe you should pay visit to "ofab nanos" terminal and finally buy "pet attention" and "improved pet attention" nanos? Really...

Keeper: No effects as far as I know. SS ftw.

Just FYI - MP toolset have more nanos than SS, eNSD and comp mochams. Cause I'm not sure you're aware of this fact.

Ps. In reality ENSD is a must against majority of the other professions and in many cases the only way for victory.

Yes, nothing beats you trying to eNSD some1 and getting nanocasting disabled for 10 seconds.

P.S.: Sometimes it's better be silent and make other think you're dumb than open your mouth and prove it.
P.P.S.: Try dueling some at least partly experienced players.

[electronite1]

Well, somehow I miss why doc will need to cast nanos. He'll be kiting pets, ASing you now and then, maybe he'll perk/dot your healball to death once you fail landing NSD once with 10 sec recharge or they remove it and you're still in recharge.

I really would not care less if doc would spend his entire arsenal on attack or heal pet. Belamorte is insta cast fyi. And not casting nanos what are you trying to say by it? Docs do not need to cast nanos. Ok I rest my case.

R u nubi? With solds you'll meet either NR2 NR-perked ones or not NR-twinked ones. For not NR-twinked ones regular NSD>eNSD due to nano time. For NR-perked ones... Well, it still better cause once you land it - it sticks, instead of failure to land with 10 sec recharge.

True against non perked ones regular NSD is prolly better but since I want to be loyal to the topic I am talking about ENSD, which can be very useful nano no matter you fail to understand it or not.

R u nubi? Calming healpets is kinda old-school for advs. You got IPA/PA and they got their calms nerfed.

Eh what a nubi answer. Tell me how you prevent advie healing himself if not nsded? Try killing advie when wielding shield and not ENSDing him. GL cause u need it. IPA/PA is always countered with new calm! With ENSD you prevent it.

And still nubi. Or I missed the point where agents got insane NR

Seems you only lack skills to land certain nanos. Maybe upgrade gear or rethink strategies instead. Altho I admit some agent do have nice NR. Nonetheless if you cast SS you will find out that pets are rooted/snared and you can do practically anything but wait for agents next move.

If you want to stay stunned while Carlo **** you slowly - cast ENSD. Otherwise - SS is better option, just to avoid proc stuns. And btw - SS have some nifty root/snare resist in it.

How noobish answer. When casting SS you practically have longer cooldown and as a bonus all you pets are calmed and you being stunned.

I'm ready to present you with my engi as ensd target. It will practically kill me. Due to laugh. Especially "also prevents debuffs etc" part. Selling clues, cheap... Only active debuff engi can cast is our nemesis nano, "target must be fixer"

K I am interested to c how you remove roots from pets when you have nsd running.

Omg, I really dunno, maybe you should pay visit to "ofab nanos" terminal and finally buy "pet attention" and "improved pet attention" nanos? Really...
Just FYI - MP toolset have more nanos than SS, eNSD and comp mochams. Cause I'm not sure you're aware of this fact.

Indeed MP has several good nanos but as being loyal to the topic I am talking about ENSD not virtually every possible nano or option there is. Spamming competition with fixer ok gl with it since fixer will most likely win you. I rather removing nuisanse by utilization of ENSD.

Yes, nothing beats you trying to eNSD some1 and getting nanocasting disabled for 10 seconds.

Indeed and your suggestion is to cast SS in every situation, which should be avoided as long as possible due to long cooldown.

P.S.: Sometimes it's better be silent and make other think you're dumb than open your mouth and prove it.

Indeed you have shown no solid proof about anything that could not be countered by other claims.

P.P.S.: Try dueling some at least partly experienced players.

Yes I will and have. Also seems to be pretty obvious you lack the experience with shield. Test it before you talk more and same goes to Chrys who obviously does not have experience of the shield or the weakness it has.

[kuznechik]

Ok, last try.

1. NSD beats eNSD due to longer duration (1 min vs 15 sec) and shorter recharge time (6 sec vs 10 sec). As result it's better against low-NR professions/build and somehow better vs high-NR profs w/o ways to remove NSD, so you just spam NSD and hope for 1 min to do something else than continuously /fail at landing eNSD with it's long recharge and when you finally land it - it's over in 15 sec.
List of profs that are better be stuffed with NSD than eNSD: agent (rarely perks ND), enforcer, soldier, engineer, crat (rarely perks ND), adventurer, non-NR shade.
List of profs that are either immune or pretty much ignorant to your eNSD attempts: NR shade, engineer, keeper, enforcer, soldier, NT, fixer (onoz, he can't meep).

Docs can just go full-def and after that - GL landing eNSD on them. They also have few removal perks that can be used as need arises. Detailed example: you open from eNSD, let's say it landed, wohoo! You also send your pets after doc, woohoo twice. 1st second doc removes nsd (~8 sec in recharge for you), then he hands out decrepitude x2 and UBT x1, if he's lucky - he can also squeese in one last UBT for yourself before you re-NSD him. At this point he uses NSD removal 2, hands you 3x dots and some AS now and then. Then he'll go full def. No need to heal detected, no need to use NSD removal more detected. You will lack healing, pets and damage.

Crats. All what he need to kill you is to trigger his proc. For this to archieve he equips all specials possible. That's most common case. So - having SS agaist crat you will get almost immunity against his CC tools and on top of it - protection from his procs (LE procs require you to hit to trigger unlike weapon/nano procs).

Engies. If you dig in engi forums you'll learn that in old evil times when there was no IPA - there was 3 ways to remove calm from pets. Some of these are actual for roots. Besides - eNSDing engi will only limit engineer from re-sending pets after you and casting IPA/PA (at the duel beginning my pets will have 88% root resist, so gl grafting them). All of our other toolset will stay with us. MP have plenty of ways to harm engi, just eNSD is weirdest of it. CoC will do more harm, honestly.

[Graftmage]

Against NT, debuffing %nanodamage works better Thats from NT POV.

[warrioro]

eNSD isnt needed 95% of the time. SS + NSD proc is MUCH better in the majority of cases:

Soldier: SS - is a MUST or specials will make short work of you.
Keeper: SS / CoC
MA: SS
Doc: SS - NSD proc lands well here
Agent: SS
Adv: SS
Shade: SS
Engi: SS - kite pets
Crat: SS - kite pets
Enf: SS (on self)
Fixer: SS
NT: nano dmg debuffs/nsd proc
MP: SS

NSD proc is a must + so is spamming AS - it will make short work of most proffs.
eNSD is just a waste of time - the classes your going to use it on to any affect are just going to remove it anyway. SS is the way to go.

[Racatti]

eNSD isnt needed 95% of the time. SS + NSD proc is MUCH better in the majority of cases:

Soldier: SS - is a MUST or specials will make short work of you.
Keeper: SS / CoC
MA: SS
Doc: SS - NSD proc lands well here
Agent: SS
Adv: SS
Shade: SS
Engi: SS - kite pets
Crat: SS - kite pets
Enf: SS (on self)
Fixer: SS
NT: nano dmg debuffs/nsd proc
MP: SS

NSD proc is a must + so is spamming AS - it will make short work of most proffs.
eNSD is just a waste of time - the classes your going to use it on to any affect are just going to remove it anyway. SS is the way to go.

You got all the time to debuff your opponent only having to SS if really must with noob-shield on.

[Chrys]

You got all the time to debuff your opponent only having to SS if really must with noob-shield on.

Don't call it noob shield, you might hurt somebody's feelings

[Camar]

I found Beneficial Scourge much more effective against Keeper/Enf/Advy. With the heals from Bio line and Mongo halfed, Rihwen beats Enfs into a pulp pretty quickly.

The only time I died to an Enfo or Keeper was an MR gank where my NM absorb lagged for a crucial second.

[pieceoftroll]

Doctor: Definately best strategy is to ENSD them. Docs can remove ENSD once or twice but that is it and after that they go down. So far I have not met single doc who can survive this.

I´d rather cast Beneficial Scourge and while it lasts , try to land normal NSD , it lands almost same often as ENSD even thou it has 160% check, then the doc wud get screwed for 60 sec instead of 15 secfrom ENSD.

Soldier: If catched unguard ENSD is the best strategy since after AMS is prevented solja is dead meat. On the other hand even if solja could cast AMS mp is pretty much forced to ENSD soldier in order to prevent AMS cycle.

Cast normal NSD at the end of the AMS , make sure you keep him NSDed, with ENSD you gotta recast it every 15 sec and if it didn´t land ONCE , with 10 sec recharge , solja would get 5 secs with nanoskills up to cast another AMS

Trader: ENSD is pretty much a must or you get affected by grand theft humidity, which practically means game is lost.

Here i can kinda agree .. ENSD has still a lil better chance to land than NSD, and if you manage to land it on trader , just rootgraft him and pets can beat him in under 15 secs , with combination of your nukes.

Adventurer: ENSD is the best and probably only way to take adventurer down. Few tricks can be used to support the strategy but won't go into details. First of all ENSD prevents healing but also prevents advie to calm healpet, which is very important as well.

I use same tactic as with docs , Beneficial Scourge at start to nerf their heals by 50% , then spam NSD.

Agent/fp doctor: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Agents can't take much of a beating so one has to be able to keep pets attacking and this can be prevented by agents snares etc. Therefore ENSD not only prevents healing but also prevents pets being immobilised.

There are two types of agent , NR ones and not NR ones , in first case you dont wanna waste ENSD on them coz it will land like 1/10, if they are NR 2 their nanoskills are usualy on the edge for casting CH, i´d prefer to spam Metaing's Improved Mind Quake with nasty -150 nanoskill debuff and when it lands agent is dead. For non NR ones , just use Beneficial Scourge root perk em and send pets , with combination of pet dmg and your perks (wich you should b able to land on non NR agent ) they cant outheal the dmg taken.

Crat: ENSD is must or you will end up dead. Pets will be rooted etc. and same goes to yourself if crat is allowed to cast his nanos.

ENSD is nice but once again , if they send pets on you before you land ENSD on them , the pets will keep klling you even after you ENSD the crat. I personaly put mezzet on carlo , attack pet and all my dmg perks on CEO , when ceo is dead , crat is alone and you can kill him easily

NT: ENSD is very risky as it is very hard to land and probably you just get tripled instead. End result would depend much on AR vs NR. In a duel it would be a huge risk to try this strategy since recovering from ENSD takes too much time. As a side note MP being NT nemesis is a joke when in reality it is often vice versa.

Hostility Scourge + Nano Division is more FTW here than ENSD.

Enforcer: Not very familiar of the consequenses and would probably consider SS as best weapon against enfo.

Use Metaing's Improved Mind Quake here , does better dmg than SS , doesnt nerf you into 30 sec recharge + the -150 nanoskills debuff will surely prevent enfos from casting improved nanoprograms.

Engineer: ENSD works like a charm. Engi loses control of pets, which allows you to root them with grafts or maybe with perk if trained. Prevents also debuffs etc.

Same as crat, mezzpet on chicken , kill doggy , cast Beneficial Scourge
on engi to make his pet heals halved.

MP: If you are facing bow MP SS is probably best weapon since mp with bow can't take the beating like shield mp. Against shield mp ENSD is great. Prevents debuffing etc. NSD removers can spoil the fun a bit but still worth trying.

Rinse and repeat , mezzpet on Whiner , kill healpet

MA: No need for ENSD since MA can't take pets beating for too long with mediocre heals. SS is therefore better since MA's have several special attacks.

Wrong , a good MA can beat your pets sooner than you will realise it, if you´re shild MP , use all AAO perks on Whiner , spam nukes , use Alba ring etc , also dont forget to cast Beneficial Scourge.
Keep urself under SS, you will need the 250 AAD bonus because MAs like to use Delirium special attack on your pets (gives 300 AAO to the MA) then use Flower of life attack on you (checks duck exp , debuffs your AAD by 400-550), then perk you to death even throu SoZ.

Shade: Same as with MA. SS is better.

Metaing's Improved Mind Quake instead of SS , use SS on urself eventualy to prevent SA

Fixer: If you are about to beat a fixer in pvp ENSD is a must. If you can't ENSD fixer there is no way to keel them. Pets will be rooted before you know and things will get difficult.

Havent ever needed to NSD/ENSD the fixer , if they snare pets , you can insta unsnare them , spam nukes on fixer, they wont perk you , they will hardly land any of their special on you , they will hardly cap AS , Fixers arent prof we shud be scared from

Keeper: No effects as far as I know. SS ftw.

Metaing's Improved Mind Quake>SS

also - NEVER use SS on high Ar profs (MA/Keeper/Solja) as it will rise their AAO by 200 wich could be deadly for you

This is my point of wiev how to pvp as a MP , the situations i described here are mostly duels btw , i might be wrong , but these methods have been working for me so far. What i wanted to show is that ENSD is not necesarily needed tool.

[warrioro]

[QUOTE=Warchild;5154637]
Metaing's Improved Mind Quake>SS

also - NEVER use SS on high Ar profs (MA/Keeper/Solja) as it will rise their AAO by 200 wich could be deadly for you

/[QUOTE]

just.... no.

SS is a non-shield mp's only defence against sols and proffs with specials. yes it raises their AR by 200 but it also raises your AAD by 250 - go figure that one out (50 + evades just in case u didnt)

saying not to use SS is like telling a fixer not to use acrobat perks. or an enf not to use bio shield.

SS was made to make MP's good again in pvp - guess what - it worked.