Friday with Means - March 26th, 2010 - Amnesia...please.

[Lusos101]

Quick mishes for a nice xp/sk gain seems to me not the way to go. If we want new players to adhere to the game we need something diferent. Even casual players dont spend a few minutes in game. We need missions that take a resonable amount of time (reasonable to me means 30 min to 1 hour, your mileage may vary) that give a reasonable amount of xp/sk ( this would be 50% of a level at low levels and 20 percent at higher) and some decent loot. Decent means random pieces of good stuff, like dyna or tskilled armor, imps from shop or some of the better weapons. If people could not choose the missions (the one you get is the one you must accept) this would allow new players to get some decent gear at starting levels and continue playing without being hand fed.

A quicky a day is just more of the same. A diferent powerleveling version for established players. Wont bring new players in, will loose interest quickly and become another piece of useless content fast. If this is all there is to the new missions, a fast way to get a bit of xp, then im very dissapointed.

[Traderjill]

It has not been broken the whole time...only recently when changes made to facilitate transfers from DNW broke it again. It is more complicated to fix it now without disturbing the transfer process from DNW.

So we do know about it. Something is being done about it. But things like this can take a bit of time.

Means,

My only concern is that, for instance, I have been trying to transfer my trader over to Test for a good month with no success. Changes have been made to BR and GTH and you requested people go over and test it. I'm one to believe that if I don't bother to test it out that I've given up my right to complain later...

Unfortunately, I can't test it out. Same goes with the daily missions.. I can only test them out on my 220 doc.

Questions:

- Any idea when character transfer will be fixed?
- When it is fixed, will you post someplace on the forums so those of us waiting can transfer our characters to Test?
- Will we be given an adequate amount of time to Test changes and new content, after the fix, but before that content is transferred to Live?

[Autofil]

Nothing new about the grass in OA?

[BugsCoT]

It has not been broken the whole time...only recently when changes made to facilitate transfers from DNW broke it again. It is more complicated to fix it now without disturbing the transfer process from DNW.

So we do know about it. Something is being done about it. But things like this can take a bit of time.

It's pretty unreliable and has had some serious problems over the years. Might want to uncheck the "Randomly FUBAR" option...

[Gatester]

How about, instead of trying to create new ways of gaining XP/SK to alleviate the grind, adjusting the amounts of XP/SK needed per level?

This would be so much simpler. I don't know why the process of leveling should be so strenuous. Make AXP take effort, fine, make research take effort, that makes sense. In some games leveling can be slow, others fast, but the main point is being able to reasonably hit a players desired level of playing within a weeks to two weeks time, not several months. In Shadowbane, a game where developers wanted people at the optimum levels of play, you could go from 1-20 in a matter of hours, then 20-50 overnight. 50 could compete very well with the level 75 capped players, which meant the time it took to reach optimum content was 2 days.

I have been spoiled by the quickness of SB's leveling, but I see no reason for the quickness not to exist. If you make quests for gear, creds, and nanos that people will desire, they will do them. If you want to teach players through quests, or get them to explore, then there is nothing wrong with enticing them through XP gains, but making leveling easier and having other reasons to quest would be the way to fix AO's non-raid pvm content.

If the daily missions were for nanos for my profession, a weapon for my profession, or something else that would boost my character I would be just as likely to do them even if I didn't need it in order to level. So, I will be on a wait and see with the daily missions, but if the slow grind persists than another solution will be needed.

[Tazalanche]

How about, instead of trying to create new ways of gaining XP/SK to alleviate the grind, adjusting the amounts of XP/SK needed per level?

Better yet, the daily missions need to be set up for more options. If we only get one daily mission per day, give us a short/medium/long option that equals to 10/30/60 minutes to complete, on average, with sk/xp that is relative to the time taken. With an option like that, casual & hardcore players are all happy.

Means,

Perhaps this post should be in Game Suggestions but....

We need more people on Test to test out changes and new 'stuff'. I went to RK2 when The Collector came out and did a neutnet spam (mass messaging bot that all 3 factions use) asking for TL7's to come to Test and try out the new instance.

I was spammed with people telling me that they could not copy their characters over to Test or have some major issue with getting their Test copy of AO to work.

In my opinion, testing out new content (especially changes) is high priority and if there are people ready and willing to do so but encountering tech difficulty.. that should be put high on Funcom's priority list to address.

I know personally I have characters waiting to be transferred.. one request that was as old as March 11th (I deleted it today). I know you guys are busy, but we need to get the bugs worked out of things and the more people testing things.. the better.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

I whole heartedly agree, but Funcom doesn't seem to be listening when we ask for that information to be readily available in the forums, website &/or launcher.

...Since I mentioned the website, testlive information that is updated & accurate would be a good idea too. The link to bugsy that is posted in the testlive client was replaced months ago... something about a server crash & instead of fixing it, they just created a new one here? Even the old Testserver FAQ thread is dead. After a lot of asking & hunting, I found testlive (dot) info (direct link not provided intentionally), but am unsure it is legit because a whois search states that the domain has an individual as its owner, so Funcom does not seem to have anything to do with it.

It feels wrong when Means keeps talking about needing our help with testing, yet the proper methods to notify the Devs about testlive problems (bugsy & the testlive forums) are not easily accessible or down.

If people have transfer issues or have to jump through hoops to get all of the information to be able to go to testlive, they're not going to bother.

Streamline the process to get the community to it (& know what they should test as their priority) & they will test it. I have even asked in social in the last month about what was the biggest priority for testing at that time & no one replied, despite (CoTs/BHs/ARKs/GMs/whomever was there on Funcom's behalf to buff/help in ICC) having non-game related conversations in the chat with other players. An hour after asking & no reply, I gave up & logged out.

There used to be a section of these forums that had testlive information. It needs to be brought back before the new engine is released, if not sooner.

We want to help before Funcom pushes something to live & ends up with egg on their face because it was not tested enough beforehand. Give us the tools to do so easily & efficiently.

[BugsCoT]

Stuff.

We have tested. We are testing. We will test. The daily missions available have been thoroughly tested and will continue to be. You don't need a forum to log onto the server and play, neither do you need a 220 character.

Transfers are broken, and it's probably going to be a (long) while before it's working again. No amount of complaints (especially in the CoT/BH direction) will bring that back.

An updated Test faqs is on its way. Thank BH Michizure.

There are private test forums. I think you can draw the same assumptions I can as to why they're private. An additional public test forum is apparently being planned, but it's waiting on Kintaii last I heard.

what was the biggest priority for testing at that time

This is a fairly silly question. We test whatever needs testing. There's no prime mandate set in stone that says "YOU MUST TEST THIS, AND DO IT NOW!" We don't even get patch notes, ffs.

Does that calm your nerd rage a bit?


(And lets be honest... most people don't want to TEST new content. They want to PLAY new content. As it is, the test server pretty much ruins any surprises for live server because people come over, play it, then run back to live with a bullet point guide.)

[Crowena]

You don't need a forum to log onto the server and play, neither do you need a 220 character.

In other words test server is not for testing, it is for playing the game and you need to level toons there too!

[Lazuraz]

Oh thats cool! You can see the nanomages eyes!

[Ebondevil]

The new NM head looks nice, only real issue with it is the Beard Follicles, I don't believe there are any Nanomages with beards, and honestly seeing the follicles there looks a bit wrong, I could always imagine the capability of growing a beard having been engineered out of the Nanomage genome. Would also help divorce them somewhat more from the Solitus base genome look if such was removed.

I stand corrected, just went to roll a new NM and the character creation screen uses that exact head for the Metaphysicist, so unless that was updated since Means posted the recent head then that particular NM deffinetly looks like he has the Beard Follicles present. Having then looked through some of the other NM heads it is apparent that a number of them do have similar Folicles, guess NM's are just a well shaved bunch or their facial hair doesn't grow beyond a certain length.

My Humble appologies for my previous comments on the matter.

[Tazalanche]

This is a fairly silly question. We test whatever needs testing.

Yet when someone asks what needs testing they get ignored, told it is a silly question or accused of 'nerd rage' because they do not read minds?

If something is added & the addition is not posted anywhere to let the community know about it, what else are they supposed to do, aside from ask what needs testing? It is a legitimate question. To state otherwise would be 'fairly silly'. If someone is offering to help & gets rediculed for doing so, maybe there is a problem with the current procedure... or some of the people involved.

Either way, the post you were replying to was to show what is missing (or needed) for those in the community that have not lived on testlive for the past 1.5-8+ years & would like to go there to help test when they have some free time from life (or a live server). While you 'are/have/will test', others want to test, but don't know how to do so because that information is no longer readily available or is not easy to find.

In other words test server is not for testing, it is for playing the game and you need to level toons there too!

Apparently.

In all honesty, despite playing actively on RK1 since December 2004 & occasionally on RK2, I have tried creating & leveling toons on testlive too. My "testborn toons" ranged in level from 25-100 before I stopped playing them. If I wanted to be forced to solo (or multi-log) 90+% of the time if I wish to level, I would not be playing a MMORPG.

[-Klod-]

Serious question Means...

When will MPs be viable at PvP again? Balance forum and its documentation doesn't offer anything specific on that matter, except general changes at NR checking perks, which is, quite honestly, not enough.

Is there any fancy MP defense nano "sneak preview" available?

[Mikenche]

About daily missions:

Will it be possible to do one mish of every type per day, or just one mish of any type? In the first case the rewards seem fine to me, considering the short time to complete the mishes. In the latter they could probably stand a slight increase.

If there's only one mish of any type per day, will it be possible to choose the type of mission?

<rant>
About people making absurd demands for the rewards:

Where did the conception come from that the daily mishes should be the new shortcut to 220 and so good that no one will do inf mishes anymore? Yes, Means did say the rewards will be more than adequate, but maybe you have a different idea of what's adequate. Maybe FC should just add a five-minute quest on the newbie island that grants an instant ding 220? Would you be happy then?

Someone said that the "average" time for a 220 easy is 20 minutes. Most of the time the PUGs I get into take between 30 and 45 minutes to finish an easy. My friend reported a truly atrocious team that took 1 hour 20 minutes to complete an easy. To balance this and get the average to 20 minutes, where are all the teams that do easies in 10 minutes? I doubt it would be possible to complete one that fast even if you could instakill mobs just by selecting it and pressing a button (which is not far from what happens in a really high-damage team). I did get a team yesterday that did hards in 30 minutes per mish. That was very nice, but doesn't happen all that often. Extrapolating from the SK/hour rate, that would equal completing an easy in about 17 minutes, so I still claim that the 20 minute average for easies is way off.

And when did this game become 220 online anyway? I've been playing for five years, and I just dinged my first 219 yesterday. My second highest character is 217, and then I have a bunch of TL5s. I've been able to have lots of fun without being 220. In fact, when I ding 220, there won't really be much more for me to do. Once I get Xan alpha symbs in it'll pretty much be game over, I won. Off to leveling some other character, or maybe time to take a break from AO.
</rant>

[Wrangeline]

In terms of XP-gain, the daily missions are like vitamin-pills that you take alongside your main meal which is good old fashioned mob farming or missions.

They may not make you "full" but they are to be taken once a day, they go down quick and they add a variety that your standard meat and potatoes meal wont provide.

[Ayria]

In terms of XP-gain, the daily missions are like vitamin-pills that you take alongside your main meal which is good old fashioned mob farming or missions.

More like, changing the colour of the cup you use to drink your bile.

Many, if not all, of us are sick and tired of the same old drudgery of Inferno missions. Many of us (or was it just me?) were looking forward to the Daily Missions being not just another grind you get to do because their so stinking useless (as is with current rewards) and make you wait 18 hours between use but as and alternative to Inferno or Pen or Ado hecks or Ely hecks or...

We want variety, I'm sure many of us are willing to put in the effort of more then just five minutes a mission if it means getting a better; comparable, reward. Personally I'm disappointed, I was looking forward to actually being able to say "Hey, I can't get an Inf team for my Doc [insert other prof here] lets go do a daily mission solo" and feel like I've accomplished something; like I'm satisfied with my meal, rather then just being handed a pill to swallow and told it's really not a placebo for Grind Sickness.

[Mastablasta]

More like, changing the colour of the cup you use to drink your bile.

Many, if not all, of us are sick and tired of the same old drudgery of Inferno missions. Many of us (or was it just me?) were looking forward to the Daily Missions being not just another grind you get to do because their so stinking useless (as is with current rewards) and make you wait 18 hours between use but as and alternative to Inferno or Pen or Ado hecks or Ely hecks or...

We want variety, I'm sure many of us are willing to put in the effort of more then just five minutes a mission if it means getting a better; comparable, reward. Personally I'm disappointed, I was looking forward to actually being able to say "Hey, I can't get an Inf team for my Doc [insert other prof here] lets go do a daily mission solo" and feel like I've accomplished something; like I'm satisfied with my meal, rather then just being handed a pill to swallow and told it's really not a placebo for Grind Sickness.

You knew from the start that daily missions were going to be "daily" and that they were going to be very fast to complete and give a decent reward based on this. If the reward is slightly low at highend, then so what, level slower or face the much reduced grind that there is today untill it gets reduced further. At low levels these things could have the impact of Dark Ruins, which even if you can't get a bunch of people to go all the way through it, still offers 7+ million XP a day for your alt if you just go in and grab a DOJA chip. The last 4 levels I've gained in this way on my lvl 170ish alt. Log on, go to DR with someone in team, solo creepers till DOJA drops, return chip, go back and farm another for the next day.
Daily missions will add another step in my daily hello on my alt, to get higher levels without actually grinding anything. I could stand around and grind hecklers of course, but that's so dull, and a trip to Dark Ruins or these daily missions makes it possible to get around the grind as long as you're not completely impatient. If you have 8 hours a day to play AO and want more to do, well... there's always the grind untill that gets lessened.

[Ayria]

You knew from the start that daily missions were going to be "daily" and that they were going to be very fast to complete and give a decent reward based on this.

I knew they would be daily, that much is obvious. No where did I read them saying "these would be super duper fast to complete so like we won't be giving you much for them". It was said they would give a "more then adequate" reward.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...50&postcount=1

Right there's my source. I fail to see where they said "fast and low reward" I see "significant progress every day is a fantastic addition" and "rewards will be more than adequate...this will not be an issue".

You gona say Means is wrong now?

[Mastablasta]

I knew they would be daily, that much is obvious. No where did I read them saying "these would be super duper fast to complete so like we won't be giving you much for them". It was said they would give a "more then adequate" reward.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...50&postcount=1

Right there's my source. I fail to see where they said "fast and low reward" I see "significant progress every day is a fantastic addition" and "rewards will be more than adequate...this will not be an issue".

You gona say Means is wrong now?

I didn't ever say that it was going to be a low reward, but it clearly says in that post that it is meant to be fast "Those of us who find their time tied up, and those who don't will all find benefit and variety in this new system." and since the low reward at highend is a matter for discussion, per the OP in this thread, how about saying it in a constructive way instead of just going "waah i'm disappointed i'm gonna quit ao now", it would be a refreshing change of tone.
Also, another supporting point is the general philosophy that the current team has been working on in most new raid encounters and quests; log on with only 30 mins to play and still be able to do something. The daily missions are just yet another pillar of support for this style of gameplay.

[Ayria]

I didn't ever say that it was going to be a low reward, but it clearly says in that post that it is meant to be fast "Those of us who find their time tied up, and those who don't will all find benefit and variety in this new system." and since the low reward at highend is a matter for discussion, per the OP in this thread, how about saying it in a constructive way instead of just going "waah i'm disappointed i'm gonna quit ao now", it would be a refreshing change of tone.
Also, another supporting point is the general philosophy that the current team has been working on in most new raid encounters and quests; log on with only 30 mins to play and still be able to do something. The daily missions are just yet another pillar of support for this style of gameplay.

Point out where I said I'm gona quit now or cried like some baby. I expressed my disappointment in; what I feel, was a rather civilized fashion (for these boards at least). It's not my fault trolls like yourself decide to nitpick about every single detail and try to act that just because you're fine with something that it must be alright and everyone else who dares speak a word to the contrary is just some emo whiner.

My impression of how the daily missions would be was that of something I could do instead of something like Inferno or Ely hecks if I had six hours or half an hour that day to play.

My issue now is investment and it's payout. Sure if you consider five minutes of work (which not all daily missions are that short) the reward seems good. But if I want my "significant progress" each day and am willing to put in adequate time to deserve such a reward: why can't I get that too?

Where's the "I have half an hour online and I could just squeeze a mission in there and feel like I really did something that helps my toon out" option? Instead of the "Yay I just did a mission in five minutes now what in the hell am I going to do for the other twenty-five that I'm online when everything else takes longer then that to complete!" option we have now.

[Malentor]

snip

lolwut? No. Questsystems like in world of failures and age of bonan is what killed their teaming.

No, we want more "play when you feel like it" content like alien raids, missions and daily quick missions, instead of horrible quest chains where everyone and their grandmother is on a different step, so you can't team up for a reasonable benefit. If you want that kind of pve crap, go play a single-player-online game like the two I mentioned earlier.