Gth

[Goossens]

GTH is an offensive debuff. Agreed?

its a drain, ubt is a debuff, it doesnt give docs inits/dmg, same with nsd

[Shareida]

Just on a sidenote... as i mentioned in another discussion about gth, inbetween the ticks you can still cast, if you time stims/Genious perk right.

I tried it out on an adventurer.

He was perfectly able to continue spamming heals for at least 20 seconds AFTER GTH landed.

Even i can cast while under nanobot depletation effect. See the effects here

Just requires some counting in the head from one to 5 and clicking twice.

its a drain, ubt is a debuff, it doesnt give docs inits/dmg, same with nsd

On another sidenote. UBT/NSD IS spammable on multiple targets. THAT is why i find that disscussion about GTH rediculous.

[Ober]

GTH is an offensive debuff. Agreed?

Offensive debuff as in:
Debuff that targets offense?
A debuff that helps your offense?
A debuff that people find offensive?

Nah, I'm just kidding

I agree, with the correction of it being a drain, yes
Actually, the only (?) combination of both shutdown and drain, afaik.

Ober, I am very open about my limited knowledge of facts and figures, and I am not ashamed to acknowledged that. And you are more than welcome to discuss the effects of the negative nanodelta over here since it is related to GTH as well. Just because you may be a Doctor at heart, does not mean I don't take what you say seriously.

Yup, and that's good, and ofc makes me want to / have to educate or whatever

But meh, I'm slowly falling into Pala's crowd anyways, as my nifty little atrox adventurer gains levels :x
(Tho almost wish I was a no-lifer again, so I had time for my baby trader :/)

[cacat]

But meh, I'm slowly falling into Pala's crowd anyways, as my nifty little atrox adventurer gains levels :x
(Tho almost wish I was a no-lifer again, so I had time for my baby trader :/)

How does having 1 220 toon(not even maxed,still 6 AI levels and some 13 or something LE levels) in 3 years qualify as having no life o.0

Anyways OT:

Cut NCU action by half(so its 30 secs),make it removable with 2 viral scanners(thats running away+1 viral scanner+another one after 15 seconds,should be 30 seconds in total,so fair imo).

Sounds fair?

[Axela]

thats cos traders are being stupid on the forums, we should only cry for more love and not for nerfs (just like enfs), the idea of gth is to make any nano prof unalbe to use there nanos to them being able to remove them makes it useless imo

I am a very objective person and I work both ways. I listen to all concerns regarding love and nerfs and will lobby for them if the reasons for change is strong enough.

its a drain, ubt is a debuff, it doesnt give docs inits/dmg, same with nsd

A drain, consist of a buff for the caster, and a debuff on the target. The concern here, and everywhere else where GTH issues is/was talked about, is with the debuff the victim suffers. That is very much an offensive debuff. I am pretty sure my terminology is neither flawed nor incorrect. Has there been any concern raised about the buff bit? Not as far as I know of. Thus, that is why I only use the term "debuff" and not "drain" which represents the nano (buff+debuff) as a whole.

"Drain" or "Debuff", does it even matter? Since everyone seems to know what I am talking about. Anyways, back to topic.

Cut NCU action by half(so its 30 secs),make it removable with 2 viral scanners(thats running away+1 viral scanner+another one after 15 seconds,should be 30 seconds in total,so fair imo).

Even for a doctor, their nanopool will be completely gone by 5-8s as mentioned by Ober. Removal by 2 scanners would take around that. The thing is this nano has to be "locked down" in my view on the trader for 1 minute. Otherwise, there can potentially be one GTH every 30s in a given PvP scenario. I am not sure but would any victims here tell me if you rather have GTH on you every 30 sec? or leave it as 1 min as by then, because one is stuck with no nanopool, the combat either had been "resolved" by running away or death.

Maybe a better approach for both traders and others is a somewhat change in the numbers. For traders, they can have the nano being used every once per min, but it is effective during the duration. Also, not have to "cast another nano grrr" in the next 30s timeslot. For balance, the 1min in place keeps the nano in check to prevent "over-usage". For others, it seems that it might be better to check out what the actual problem regarding the negative nano delta. It hurts because high tick rate removes it faster than the nano on paper seems to be intended. If the negative nano delta, is working as it is intended, then is the numbers on the debuff abit too strong since it is cannot be removed?

One thing everyone discussing must bear in mind, do not put the debuff running on your profession as a context. Just as Shareida has mentioned, an Adventurer seems to be able to even heal up even with GTH running. Pala, can you bring give some input on that?

[cacat]

Even for a doctor, their nanopool will be completely gone by 5-8s as mentioned by Ober. Removal by 2 scanners would take around that. The thing is this nano has to be "locked down" in my view on the trader for 1 minute. Otherwise, there can potentially be one GTH every 30s in a given PvP scenario. I am not sure but would any victims here tell me if you rather have GTH on you every 30 sec? or leave it as 1 min as by then, because one is stuck with no nanopool, the combat either had been "resolved" by running away or death.

Maybe a better approach for both traders and others is a somewhat change in the numbers. For traders, they can have the nano being used every once per min, but it is effective during the duration. Also, not have to "cast another nano grrr" in the next 30s timeslot. For balance, the 1min in place keeps the nano in check to prevent "over-usage". For others, it seems that it might be better to check out what the actual problem regarding the negative nano delta. It hurts because high tick rate removes it faster than the nano on paper seems to be intended. If the negative nano delta, is working as it is intended, then is the numbers on the debuff abit too strong since it is cannot be removed?

One thing everyone discussing must bear in mind, do not put the debuff running on your profession as a context. Just as Shareida has mentioned, an Adventurer seems to be able to even heal up even with GTH running. Pala, can you bring give some input on that?

Well,why do i want 30 second recharge time?

Thing is,this would be a "nerf" of sorts(devs SHOULD have made it removable),but they didn't,hence "nerfing" someones toolsets should net something in return.

I would rather love a REMOVABLE GTH,WITH the ability of a trader to continue GTHing people every 30 seconds instead of 1 min.
Because lets face it,the way it is now,any person(unless osbed) will rather die(i know i do) when hit by GTH then wait for 1 min+the time to reach 1/4 or 1/3 of the pool back(i have some 180-200 nano delta,not sure as i am not in game,now lets be generous,that is 200 every 2 seconds,my nano pool is 8k,i have no TS in order to use higher then 125 shop bought nano kits(1.5k each iirc),but they lock TS as well and however you look at it,its 1 min wasted).
I am guessing most profs have between 100-200 nano delta,with NTs and docs having 200+.
I am sorry,but i can only base my post on my own prof(since i never played a high level enfo or NT/Doc,only engi/sol/MA/advy/agent),with that being said,GTH royally destroys docs(should go "Oh CRAP!" when hit by GTH) and NTs(it is meant to be an anti NT nano),so i see that its fine there.

So,i say cut it down by 30 seconds,because getting away from the trader/anyone else requires at least 10-15 seconds(lets say 10 seconds on average),while you sit down,it takes another...
What,1-2 seconds?
When you use the viral scanner,it has an "activation" time of 3(?) seconds and a recharge time of 15 seconds(TS lock).
So to me,that makes the 30 second recharge fair,it means that IF you get a way,it doesn't mean you will have 1 minute down time+another 10-20 seconds of doing absolutely nothing.
And i do think the -nano delta was put there with the a reason(however unlikely that may seem,i think that the devs thought it would mean NO NANO DELTA REGENERATION,instead of nano pool drain(its how the game works),i realise how this nano was meant to look).
So...
Lets say:
30 second recharge time on NCU(reasons explained above)

And since -nano delta isn't working as it should,TRIPLE or quadruple(3-4k every 5 secs) the drain numbers,while putting nano delta numbers to -280 or 300.(that way,the NANO DELTA DRAIN(which should effectively stop nano regeneration,not drain),50 to 200,depending on the profession,it won't hurt you in the long run,but that requires the actual "drain" to be MASSIVE).
As it is now,the real intention of GTH(-1k every 5 seconds) is...
Not working,since everyone can get 5-6k+ nano with no IP.
The real thing that is hurting everyone is -2k nano delta(which drains your pool every 2 seconds),so instead of being a crippling factor(no nano regeneration) it is actually the real "DRAIN" component(i am assuming because that is how the game works).
So put the real drain component to 3-4k every 5 seconds and put the negative nano delta to 300.
So heavy nano professions professions(docs,as this is meant as an anti NT nano) will get -50ish nano delta every 2 seconds,with 3/4k REAL nano drain every 5 seconds.

Hope i made myself clear?

[Copyrights]

The reason we are not thrilled with reducing GTH to 30s is because it is the counterpart to our nanobot defence, if it is reduced then the nanobot depletion from nanobot defence should also be reduced to 30s in my opinion.

Otherwise we have to cast GTH again when it runs out, while at the same time nanobot depletion is eating our nanopool so we get maybe one chance to cast it before we are out of nano, which would be a major nerf.

[Axela]

Thanks for the input Pala. Will take those into account

Oh, I do have to point out that I strongly believe that the "non-removable" factor are linked to prevention of over-abused. It confines the GTH not being freely ran in a given PvP environment. That being said, it is hostile for traders so we cannot remove it. Because it is hostile for traders, it was also made in such a way that the victims can't remove it too so as to keep the effectiveness of it being a debuff. What's the point of traders casting a debuff when targets can remove it and we can't do anything about it till our hostile nano runs out.

Now, IF the suggestion is to make it removable, then it should not be hostile for the trader as well. I would go in the direction where GTH functions just like skill drains, where the buff and debuff are both separate nanos, thus being abled to be removed as and when required. However, that would make GTH a spammable nano

I do not think it is acceptable that if the debuff can be removed, traders still have to suffer a hostile nano that cannot be removed at all. If players want wish for a "check" in place to be removed ie, making it removable, then the entire mechanics will have to change otherwise traders will be on the losing end for having to suffering a hostile check.

It is either as it is now with non-removable nanos, or removable but spammable just like all other debuffs like ubt.

[cacat]

The reason we are not thrilled with reducing GTH to 30s is because it is the counterpart to our nanobot defence, if it is reduced then the nanobot depletion from nanobot defence should also be reduced to 30s in my opinion.

Otherwise we have to cast GTH again when it runs out, while at the same time nanobot depletion is eating our nanopool so we get maybe one chance to cast it before we are out of nano, which would be a major nerf.

make nano bot depletion run 30 seconds then,you guys get a bit more stable defence.

Everyone wins then?

And Axi,i am fully aware of what you mean,but take a look where i said it takes at least 30 seconds to remove that.
1.You need to run away first.
2.Provided noone is following you,you need to sit down and use a viral scanner that has execution time.
3.Then viral scanner puts your TS into recharge(15 seconds)
4.You use it once again and GTH ends.(GTH nano,still stays 1 min on the target,make viral scanners remove 20 secs of the debuff,so you WILL need to use 2 in any case)

A spammable GTH nano(a la UBT) is the worst possible scenario,it will inspire griefing...

[Axela]

Good points Pala, I will make note of that.

Those who know players of other professions, that have genuine feedback about GTH being removable or not, could you re-direct them to post over here? I would like to get more feedback regarding this.

[Goossens]

gth works fine as it is nothing needing to change unless we get summin way better back for it.

[cacat]

gth works fine as it is nothing needing to change unless we get summin way better back for it.

stop being a grouchy WoW player.

Log back and lets rip people apart in bs noob.

[Goossens]

stop being a grouchy AO player.

Log back and lets get ripped apart in bs noob.

fixed

[cacat]

fixed

You don't die with me in team,except to zerging...
But I'll get you an engi next time ;/

[Ober]

How does having 1 220 toon(not even maxed,still 6 AI levels and some 13 or something LE levels) in 3 years qualify as having no life o.0

I was referring to myself as having no-life earlier if that caused any confusion
And I have all LE levels done (except the one 10 that gives pistol)
Add in a few alts, a lot of time doing nothing but chatting/standing around "the stone", and forcing 1-2 orgmates through the pen key/sanct "every week" ++, I spent a lot of time on AO, too mucho
Now I only got around 18h'ish each week to play, due to work, family and gf.

Anyways, just tossing out an idea here:

GTH is supposed to be an anti-NT nano.
Docs are hurt about as much as nt's, maybe even more (?).

What if GTH-remover was put in BGH 4 perk? (requires 10 perk points 'sacrifice')
1x AOE GTH remover every 10 minutes.

It would balance on that 1 doc cancels 1 trader for 1 minute every 10 minutes.
2 docs cancels 2 traders for 1 minute every 10 minute (unless the traders decide to GTH 2x opponents, which would turn into 2 traders for 2 minutes, unless the docs decide to use bgh4 at the same'ish time ) And whatever side has the most docs/traders might win that part of the battle.

Nice for duels aswell, if the trader can survive the doc for 1ish minute, he probably deserves to win anyways, and docs still have a chance to survive/kill trader.

Tho, just an idea, feel free to rip it apart.

[sobeguy]

This might start out sounding a bit OT, bear with me.

The stun put on a Trader when he charms a pet is hostile. He can't remove it normally. However, the hostile stun on the Trader is linked somehow to the charm on the pet - if the stun ends, the charm does as well. If the charm ends, the stun ends too.

This proves that it *is* possible to make it so that removing the GTH effect on target would remove the lock out timer on the trader.

It may or may not make sense to make GTH removable. UBT is removable . . . but a doc can happily stand in the back and spam it on each and every hostile player he sees until someone kills him. He can cripple an entire team if not checked. GTH cripples a single player. If GTH were removable, perhaps it would be more desirable to let Traders spam it on everyone around?

It definitely isn't fair to make it removable without allowing the Trader to recast it. Then you simply end up with wasting his time trying to land a nano that doesn't help him as its simply removed, while he can't renew it again for a minute from when he casted.

[cacat]

This proves that it *is* possible to make it so that removing the GTH effect on target would remove the lock out timer on the trader.

It may or may not make sense to make GTH removable. UBT is removable . . . but a doc can happily stand in the back and spam it on each and every hostile player he sees until someone kills him. He can cripple an entire team if not checked. GTH cripples a single player. If GTH were removable, perhaps it would be more desirable to let Traders spam it on everyone around?

It definitely isn't fair to make it removable without allowing the Trader to recast it. Then you simply end up with wasting his time trying to land a nano that doesn't help him as its simply removed, while he can't renew it again for a minute from when he casted.

Bump for that if it is possible. ;p

[urgentcare]

o_O im all for making it removable or 30 seconds or what ever if they remove the hostile nano from my ncu ... make it so i can spam it on everyone please.. then you can make it as removable as you want with a viral scanner ... XD expecially now where there are like 5 nt's on the other side.. and I have to pick one to gth

[cacat]

making it spammable a la UBT will just inspire griefing.

So no,even a 30 second downtime is good enough.

Seriously,i don't know whats the deal on RK 1,but on RK 2 i have traders that DIE ON PURPOSE,just so they can GTH people.

[Nanotehnpoir]

Seriously,i don't know whats the deal on RK 1,but on RK 2 i have traders that DIE ON PURPOSE,just so they can GTH people.

Traders are the nerfest...


So therefore some like to just at least make someone else as miserable as possible