Agents need luv too...

[________Onehitonedur]

For the ammount of hp we got... and no heals we draw A LOT of aggro... and a lot of tiems the repressor doesn't cut it. We really need some luv. Post yer ideas here. My favorite is agents with GA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[_________Fyrestarter]

My favorite is agents with GA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehe you better be on crack or something

[_____________arsiine]

we just got love i think 2-3 patches ago. Gonna be a long while till we get love again. Dont get me wrong I want love but other classes need some "S"erious help. see the engie boards.

-Arsiine

oh and about grid armor. I think its would be a great idea to have some back clothing that made it look like we were in grid armor, but giving us grid armor would be a serious infringement on fixers. would not really be fair.

[mrpres1dent]

Refer to patch 14.2. STFU. Agents with GA is completely unreasonable. The fact that you even consider it indicates that you have no conception of game balance.

[_______________North]

Flo, not many people have any concept about the balance in this game or the lack of it. The very reason I am bailing out as well, as there indeed is a lack of communication from FC for their asprirations of balancing this game. It will get even worse after the booster pack is out.

[Routeen]

Originally posted by fl0w_
Refer to patch 14.2. STFU. Agents with GA is completely unreasonable. The fact that you even consider it indicates that you have no conception of game balance.

Hehe exactly as the laconic ranger says...

[Karanya]

Hahahaa.. you people referring to 14.2 as "agent love patch" crack me up. Not that I think agents should get GA, but what they took -away- from us was so much more than what they gave in return.. and the fact that NO useful new nanos have been visual profession.. eh, whatever.

Yet another reason I no longer play my agent.

--K

[mrpres1dent]

Originally posted by Karanya
Hahahaa.. you people referring to 14.2 as "agent love patch" crack me up. Not that I think agents should get GA, but what they took -away- from us was so much more than what they gave in return.. and the fact that NO useful new nanos have been visual profession.. eh, whatever.

Yet another reason I no longer play my agent.

--K

What it was billed as, and what it actually turned out to be are not relevant here. The fact is that other professions are _much_ more needy of attention from Funcom than Agents _again_. I franky don't think Agents will ever be happy because what they want, or the majority seems to want, is the ability to use any nano, from any profession, at any time, with minimal penalty at level 200, and medicore penalty at levels before that.

Anyways, I digress.. NT's next, Soldiers + Engineers. Whatever happens after that, Trader rebalancing, Crat fine-tuning, whatever. Agents are definitely able to survive while everybody else gets their day in the sun.

It does seem that most of the people who play Agents expected something different than what they got. I see Agents asking for heals, MK shields, and other defensive skills to compensate for their low-HP. I think the Agent is designed to be a fast damage-dealing PvP class (see Funcoms attempt to ensure this with 100% short-term critbuffs) and a decent PvM weapon-wielding class like most others. Agents don't have much teamability, but neither do many professions. That is something that Funcom needs to address across the board, for all professions--it is not an Agent-specific issue.

[Karanya]

It -is- relevant when people refer a person who feels agents need love (which they do) to 14.2, the agent nerf patch.

I have never met an agent who felt they should be able to cast all profession specific nanos with little or no penalty. However, FC took away the ability to cast pretty much everything that was useful to our combat ability/survivibility as high level agents.

UVC was not only made self-only (as it should have been) but also no longer visual profession (ie, not castable by agents). Taking away the high level heal pets ganked our ability to solo past around 120.

What love was given in no way, shape or form, makes up for the nerfing and the fact that all useful new nanos are not castable by an agent in FP. An example would be fixer long-term HoT nanos. This could have worked as a viable alternative to the meatball at higher levels, but of course they are not visual profession.

The X-3 rifle is usable by every profession, and it is quite a slap in the face to watch a crat or an NT or an MP running around with an X-3 popping off 10k aimed shots. The repressor ceases to be useful at higher levels. The insta-cast crit buffs (Concentration line) are okay in a very few situations, PvP being one of them. The others, which are not insta-cast, are pretty much useless.

Wanna see something funny? Make a "I'm having trouble with my level 110+ agent" post sometime. The advice you get will be to go FP crat to cast baton so you can get a team (ie, turn yourself into Crat - The Gimped Edition(tm)). And then if you still have problems due to consistantly drawing aggro and having dark blue body dev and evades, you'll be given such lovely advice as "Don't buff rifle skill so you do less damage, don't use aimed shot, and take off your crit scope - then you'll draw less aggro because you won't be contributing nice damage to the team."

Yes, there are professions that are in worse shape than agents. A good example is engineers. However, stating that FC doesn't need to pay "more" attention to agents is ridiculous - it's FC who NERFED us in the first place and 14.2 was certainly that - a huge nerf to agents past around 110-120. Yeah, we got our share of the spotlight, if you consider a nice hard blow from the nerf bat to be "positive attention".

--K (a former agent)

[mrpres1dent]

Originally posted by Karanya
UVC was not only made self-only (as it should have been) but also no longer visual profession (ie, not castable by agents). Taking away the high level heal pets ganked our ability to solo past around 120.

As was pretty much every buff introduced after 14.2 -- they're all self only. Fixer SMG buffs, Adventurer 1HE/Pistol/MR-MM buffs, Agent critical shot and stacking (laughable) damage buffs, etc.

The X-3 rifle is usable by every profession, and it is quite a slap in the face to watch a crat or an NT or an MP running around with an X-3 popping off 10k aimed shots. The repressor ceases to be useful at higher levels. The insta-cast crit buffs (Concentration line) are okay in a very few situations, PvP being one of them. The others, which are not insta-cast, are pretty much useless.

I have to agree on the X3, that should have been Agent-only, and I have griped about that in the past. 3-4 of the Adventurer morph lines are considered useless, but they are there, heh. Same with your critbuffs. It sounds like Agents want more uniqueness, but what? I never heard a good answer when that question was asked. You've got the X3, arguably the best Rifle in game (though it should be Agent only, as stated above), you've got damage buffs and stackable damage buffs, you've insta-crit, you've got access to most pre-14.0 buffs, etc. I think you need more too, but I don't think it's as bad as it seems. I know a lot of other professions have it a lot worse, and HAD it a lot worse.

Wanna see something funny? Make a "I'm having trouble with my level 110+ agent" post sometime. The advice you get will be to go FP crat to cast baton so you can get a team (ie, turn yourself into Crat - The Gimped Edition(tm)). And then if you still have problems due to consistantly drawing aggro and having dark blue body dev and evades, you'll be given such lovely advice as "Don't buff rifle skill so you do less damage, don't use aimed shot, and take off your crit scope - then you'll draw less aggro because you won't be contributing nice damage to the team."

This is a silly paragraph. Every profession faces issues getting teams, soloing, etc. This game is grossly unbalanced. What's your point? Doctors, Fixers and Enforcers are about the only 3 professions that never seem to have trouble finding a team in this game. The rest are the "random", fill-in-the-extra spots professions. Unfortunately most of us fall into that category.

Yes, there are professions that are in worse shape than agents. A good example is engineers. However, stating that FC doesn't need to pay "more" attention to agents is ridiculous - it's FC who NERFED us in the first place and 14.2 was certainly that - a huge nerf to agents past around 110-120. Yeah, we got our share of the spotlight, if you consider a nice hard blow from the nerf bat to be "positive attention".

I don't recall ever implicitly stating that Funcom needs not to look at Agents further. They do.. but after they address the more pressing issues in the game, to salvage whatever hope their paying customers still have left before the end of 2002 when other MMORPGs become available and Funcom no longer continues to pay their bills off of customers who enjoy online games but stay with AO due to lack of options.

And I don't consider the inability to cast the highest MP pet, healpet and MA critbuff a nerf. I don't think it made those professions feel too unique, and made many of them wished they rolled an Agent instead. I know I was envious when those times were prevalent. As for everything being uncastable in FP now, believe me, you're not missing much. Everything from 14.2 has basically been self-only. That seems to be the trend for every new buff introduced into the game now, declaring both a larger-scale nerf to the idea that was the Agent profession, and the idea that the buffs existing in-game prior to all of this self-only nonsense were enough to give every profession their place in the universe and balance the game mechanics at the most basic level, which is, of course, incorrect.

Help agents, but after Funcom helps itself. I think that's fair.

[Karanya]

Mmm.. just a couple quick things before I go, to tell you the truth it matters not all that much to me these days what they do to agents because I've long since given mine up anyway..

As was pretty much every buff introduced after 14.2 -- they're all self only. Fixer SMG buffs, Adventurer 1HE/Pistol/MR-MM buffs, Agent critical shot and stacking (laughable) damage buffs, etc.

As for everything being uncastable in FP now, believe me, you're not missing much. Everything from 14.2 has basically been self-only.

I don't care about buffs being self-only.. makes no difference to me at all, what I care about is that the new nanos are not castable in FP.. ie, fixer long term HoT's.. which would have helped with survivability a great deal since they took away the high level heal pets.

UVC (in fact all the MA crit buffs with the exception of the Mark line) could have been self-only, no issues there, I do think agents should have been able to continue using it on themselves, that buff allowed an agent to actually deal enough damage to kill things fast enough to actually survive a fight.. UVC was being abused, no question of that, it's STILL being abused by MA's using River Series 6 and shotguns.

As for the taking away of pets - agents -were- viable solo characters prior to 14.2. Hell, I don't think agents should be able to walk in with a demon either, that IS an MP class-defining ability, but the heal pet is a different story. That silly meatball is what allowed agents to solo at all.. and they took away all three of the top heal pets..

X-3 being agent only would be a huge step in the right direction.. I met a high level MP with an X-3 a few days ago who told me he had been an agent, but rerolled as MP since it'd let him go ahead and use the higher heal pets, and there was not enough of a difference in damage to matter.

This is a silly paragraph.

In reference to this I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, it is a slap in the face to be told that one should FP crat and cast baton "to get a team" and much, much worse, that one should do whatever is necessary to -deliberately- GIMP your damage output so you don't draw aggro and die because of the complete lack of defenses.

I actually never had trouble finding a team, my problem was -surviving- a team. I consistantly drew aggro, the repressor rarely worked, and those dark blue evades/dark blue body dev meant that I was usually dead, repeatedly, unless there was a VERY good doctor in the team.

IMHO, what agents need is three things -
1> X-3 rifle should be agent only.
2> Either fix the repressor or make concealment skill in some way affect the chances of being aggroed in a team.
3> Allow the use of -some- new nanos - long term fixer HoT's would be a great start.

Yes, other professions have problems too, some of them worse than agents, but what irks me is that the second someone comes along and posts that agents need love, everyone mocks him and directs him to 14.2, which took away far more from agents than it gave back to them. Agents are still pretty darn good up until somewhere around 110-120 when the last healing pet gives out, the ability to solo goes away, and the repressor becomes useless.. then it's either an exercise in frustration, or resorting to playing Bureaucrat - the Gimped Edition, which is about the least "agenty" thing one can do.

I'm just so tired of hearing about how agents "got their love".. bleah. That said, I'm out for now, thinking about it makes me physically ill.

--K

Quick edit -- I don't think anyone said that agents should get love before engineers, NT's, soldiers, etc. I think the point is that FC and the players at a whole think that agents already GOT their love and are "done being balanced" now, which is completely untrue.

[mrpres1dent]

Originally posted by Karanya
I don't care about buffs being self-only.. makes no difference to me at all, what I care about is that the new nanos are not castable in FP.. ie, fixer long term HoT's.. which would have helped with survivability a great deal since they took away the high level heal pets.

I think the issue at this point, and the reason so many nanos are not castable in FP is because Funcom is beginning their phase of the balancing process (lol) that includes making certain professions better at things than others. Fixers are supposed to be better at HoTing themselves than Doctors apparently (?), Adventurers are supposed to be better at 1HE/Pistols/Multi-wield than anybody else, Fixers are supposed to be better at SMGs than anyone else.. thus the self-only and non-FP nanos. I don't think theres much hope, honestly in seeing any of the new nanos that "help out"/balance any classes being castable in FP, since, Funcom is trying to give everybody their own little edge. Is it right? Who knows. I don't really agree that nothing from here on out should be non-FP, but, on the other hand, if you can just roll an Agent and be just as good as anybody else with any weapon, then I think everybody would make an Agent. Agents are bordering on the line between overpowered and grossly underpowered. If given too much they are found to be too powerful, and if denied too much they are found to be underpowered. It's probably the single most hardest profession to balance.

UVC (in fact all the MA crit buffs with the exception of the Mark line) could have been self-only, no issues there, I do think agents should have been able to continue using it on themselves, that buff allowed an agent to actually deal enough damage to kill things fast enough to actually survive a fight.. UVC was being abused, no question of that, it's STILL being abused by MA's using River Series 6 and shotguns.

I disagree. I don't think you should need to use an MA crit buff to survive. If the Agent profession relies on this line of nanos to survive then there is a more important, underlying issue that needs to be addressed in order to nullify this dependency.

As for the taking away of pets - agents -were- viable solo characters prior to 14.2. Hell, I don't think agents should be able to walk in with a demon either, that IS an MP class-defining ability, but the heal pet is a different story. That silly meatball is what allowed agents to solo at all.. and they took away all three of the top heal pets..

Again, I find it interesting that you are saying the Agent profession is 101% reliant upon an MP line of nanos to survive. True or not, I think you're looking at this too close up. Back up for a second and you'll see that allowing Agents to use all the healpets again isn't the solution -- it's merely a jimmy-rig which was working to hide/"fix" the real issue at hand, which is the Agents lack of defensive skills.

It is up to the Agent community to design, agree upon, and push for a solution that fits into the Agent profession, that both solves the lack of defensiveness the Agent profession suffers, and eliminates the dependency upon the MP heal pet nanos.

X-3 being agent only would be a huge step in the right direction.. I met a high level MP with an X-3 a few days ago who told me he had been an agent, but rerolled as MP since it'd let him go ahead and use the higher heal pets, and there was not enough of a difference in damage to matter.

Then I have to ask, if the Agent profession is so dependent upon MP nanos, why does anybody bother to play an Agent? Why wasn't this the Agent community's first and foremost issue when the 14.2 patch was being developed? Did Funcom simply ignore this? Was it even brought up, that Agents are dependent on a line of nanos that isn't even theirs to survive?

In reference to this I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, it is a slap in the face to be told that one should FP crat and cast baton "to get a team" and much, much worse, that one should do whatever is necessary to -deliberately- GIMP your damage output so you don't draw aggro and die because of the complete lack of defenses.

And my point was that it's silly to single out the Agent in to that situation. Many Adventurers used to tell fellow Adventurers to forget about weapons, since they had already dumped IP into Pistols, and pistols were worthless, and to just put all your IP into BioMeta/MatMet to become a substandard Doc, since it was the only way we could get teams. Fixers practically needed somebody they could call their hunting buddy to get a team before 14.4--I remember seeing them sit in BS all day shouting for a team. The only ones who leveled were the ones who had guildmates looking after them.

Agents aren't the only one who have to suck up their pride to get a team. Those are only a few examples--there are very few balanced professions that are actually sought after for their described role in the game.

I'm just saying that I don't think FP is the answer to your problems. I think the Agent community should be pushing for unique nanos and items that set the Agent apart, and fix the issues with defense that you have described. The ability to run Fixer HoTs and highlevel MP healpets is not a very long-term solution, IMO. It's a quick-fix, and you don't want to encourage that.

[______________Hayake]

Originally posted by Karanya

UVC (in fact all the MA crit buffs with the exception of the Mark line) could have been self-only, no issues there, I do think agents should have been able to continue using it on themselves, that buff allowed an agent to actually deal enough damage to kill things fast enough to actually survive a fight.. UVC was being abused, no question of that, it's STILL being abused by MA's using River Series 6 and shotguns.

Think the main reason uvc is made self only is that fist damage wo crits is pathetic.

MA's can btw never do as much damage with shotguns or river 6's as with their fists. (horrible attack rating, clusters conflict with clusters to cast critt buf). It's just something they use when rooted in pvp or when very bored. And I am pretty sure that as soon as there are some good bows out there very few ma's will still use shotties/river 6's.

Now an agent using X-3 and uvc would be very, very, very much
overpowered imo. You are saying you already do too much damage compared to yr health. Trust me if they did that noone could ever get aggro of you guys and girls.

The only way I could imagine allowing agents to use uvc is if they made it martial arts skill only and self only. But then it would be kinda useless for agents as well, unless you made an ma agent.

/hayake

[________Miniexplicit]

Originally posted by Karanya
UVC (in fact all the MA crit buffs with the exception of the Mark line) could have been self-only, no issues there, I do think agents should have been able to continue using it on themselves, that buff allowed an agent to actually deal enough damage to kill things fast enough to actually survive a fight.. UVC was being abused, no question of that, it's STILL being abused by MA's using River Series 6 and shotguns.

I love this paragraph. UVC+10 Sec Crit buff+X-3. Or even UVC and the X-3. It would still be abuse. I think fl0w_ is right in saying that giving agents back the MA crit bfufs would be a twich fix. I know where Karanya is coming from. Without UVC soloing mobs is iffy. Will I live? Will I die?

How would agents casting UVC affect Teaming? I can't really say that it would short of the boss room, unless the agent twinked into casting UVC, which is one thing an Agent can do better than anyone else. High level missioning is ruled by specials, and agents only have one. 1 or 2 shots from an X-3 and the fight is over, until the boss room. In the boss room the fights are long enough where the agent does significantly more than 3 shots.

In the mid-levels where an Agent can cast enough drains and mochams on theirselves, UVC would make a big difference. Fights last longer then. The agent will get aggro from always critting. We'd hear agents who did that grumbling about how they can't stay alive long enough when they get aggro.

How would agents casting UVC affect PvP? I can't rightly say. If most of your fights are short, then UVC wouldn't affect you in the slightest. Could even hinder you. PvP battles would be about the best use for it.

Originally posted by fl0w_
Why wasn't this the Agent community's first and foremost issue when the 14.2 patch was being developed? Did Funcom simply ignore this? Was it even brought up, that Agents are dependent on a line of nanos that isn't even theirs to survive?

The FC answer here is - Since agents have the defensive capabilities from other professions there are no plans to create agent nanos to give agents defensive or further offensive capabilities. In order to get anything uniquely agent we have to lose everything from every other profession. Being reliant on lines of nanos not our own to survive is how its designed.

[GameTek]

I would like to see new and better DoT's and some real HoT's for agents.... not having to use FP mode. Oh.... Fix the Repressor (Drop the NODROP UNIQUE) because for some reason as an Agent I noticed that I aggro frequently in certain situations.

[Naraya]

An Agent's damage output is almost purely dependant on the rifle they use. It's obvious that the X-3 is hands down the best rifle in the game. Opening it up to every profession is a serious slap in the face to any Agent. I think the X-3 should changed so that it is an Agent-only rifle. Us NTs would feel the same way the Agents do now if every profession had nuking ability.