Fix Prenerfed imps.? Puwese?

[frakk2k]

Can you guys make everyone that have equipped implants before the implant nerf patch, unequipp them? It would really help on low levels that want to duel in the arena. (im kinda sick of trying to duel people that have exploited their implants on.) (all my twinks are after the implant nerf patch).

(Or another idea, make an new arena, where only two can enter, and you will be debuffed, and your imps will be checked for beeing exploited on? Place a date cheker on em).

Puuweese?

[_____________Chromad]

I think its a punishment enough that these twinks aren't able to use IPR.

Agreed, that when these twinks do not level at all it gives them a huge edge over the other players but usually you, our dear opponent, level up and can ignore the twink. However, the twink is going to remain, so something could be (read: could, not should) done to twinks like those.

Yet again, this is a change from the PvP perspective effecting the whole rest of the game. If FC would forcefully remove implants i for example would have serious trouble getting my 200 set back in because i think i've lost some treatment giving bonuses somewhere. So IMO, removing implants from the player base is a really bad idea.

[frakk2k]

There must be some way of telling if the player have not leveled, and is still wearing the same implants, from before the imp nerf?

Id like to nerf them.. And also a tiny scream to the ones with 256ncu at level 2. (the tutoring device exploit.. That one sucks too).

[_______________Tpecx]

quit whining and asking for proposterous things. To have a "check" on implants is absolutly ridiculous. I just started playing again about a month ago, i missed all the exploits, i dont complain. THe simple solution is just to lvl up. Quit being a newb at lvl 6 and thinking that it actually means something.


bah my first flame :P

[__________Lucid Flow]

Here is 1 suggestion. Level up. Then beat the "exploiters" Considering you can get q200 Implants on at level 128 for most professions really makes the issue silly.

[Blackwing]

frankly i think crit scopes are way more unbalancing.

the twinks you mention are level locked since they lose their advantage by leveling up.

if somebody gets his kicks out of beating players that no longer have access to the methods he used - he must indeed be easily amused.

why lower yourself to this level?

grandfather items however are another issue entirely ....

[_____________Chromad]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
Here is 1 suggestion. Level up. Then beat the "exploiters" Considering you can get q200 Implants on at level 128 for most professions really makes the issue silly.

Actually if you happen to be a doc you can get those imps in at 125 =)

[frakk2k]

Hehe, if I shuffle 27 treatment implants I can get ql200 imps in at level 105..

Thing is, since it takes some time to get to level 200, I want to pvp with some low level char's, to get the feeling of it, but I get the feeling that most people thinks that is a complete waste of time.

Me and some friends have made lots of low level (level 2) twinks and are having a great time PvP eachother, testing profession weakness, and testing tactics. Only thing that I find disturbing is the prenerfed guys, who can enter the arena, gank everyone there, and leave, without us able to fight back. (And I don't really enjoy teaming up with higher levles just to gank back). Im sure there can be an easy way to fix this.

Not only does this include old implants, BUT all old items. Like scopes, Sunburst mk III, and the list goes on. I know FC want's to make some items rare, but I don't think it should be able to exploit it vs other players.

I still think my orange rubber suit top is a neet rarity.

As for all the people complaining about "Level up, blah blah". Then I assume you have lots of high level players, that aren't affected by this problem, or even worse, you don't pvp, and think "just to level up" is a good solution. This game was supposed to house people that does not level. Hey, I don't have to level, I just want things to be fair.

And im shouting once more, make one-on-one arenas. Where you cannot be outside buffed. If we had that, we could conduct tournaments and so on.

PuuuWeeese?

[_____________Chromad]

Frakk2000 your idea is justified but i think you fail to completelly see that your idea of fairness would cause unfairness to some people even if they haven't deserved it. If you say that FC should remove all prenerf implants from any accounts, there would be cases where a 100+ lvl player would have a really nasty surprise at his or her hand with prenerf implants legitly inserted but will have to go through the installation again (and in the worst case scenario, isnt able to redo it ie. s/he'd lost some ability boosting item...).

Again, Sunbursts, ELLTS ... They dont drop no longer making them valuable in the economy of AO and by themselfs do not need any nerfing imo. Eventually, there will be items that cause larget amount of damage, buff more points to skills etc when the time passes and these items lose all or some of their value so the situtation is going to fix itself eventually, therefore no nerf needed there.

Oh and with q200 imps and being a doctor i meant that a full set of 200 without a single point of implanted treatment. =)

[Beartwo]

I have 6 characters on my account, and I promise you that supertwinks are still alive today. Try creating an agent or a trader, you will quickly see that pre nerf and post nerf means nothing at all.

As for stacking treatment imps, dont forget there is a secondary req as well, so a lvl 5 cant wear ql 200 imps even if he had 951 treatment.

[______________Obitus]

I am all for a 1v1 arena that does a buff check or even a full debuff on you as you enter. This way, you could be assured that the person you are dueling is self buffed. It would also prevent ganking & ensure that niether player receives heals or armor from a nearby player.

I would only apply this to Arenas and not to 25% areas such as MMD. These need to stay as they are.

[frakk2k]

Hehe, well I did not mean; remove the implants, just unequipp them. When you are level 200, inserting your implants should not offer any problems.

And im not saying nerf the sunburst or old scopes. im simply saying; They are not fair to use in the arena. Im not talking mmd at all. This is all about arena fighting. (wich I enjoy very much). But stupid me did not make his twinks before FC removed some "features" that made twinking real easy.

As in the stacking matter; you may stack Treatment, and Agi imps. All the way to ql 200. It only takes ****loads of time and money. (Or, it did, until fc removed the bug that would allow you to insert a implant that required the previous implants buff, or something like that.

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Frakk2000
Hehe, well I did not mean; remove the implants, just unequipp them. When you are level 200, inserting your implants should not offer any problems.

And im not saying nerf the sunburst or old scopes. im simply saying; They are not fair to use in the arena. Im not talking mmd at all. This is all about arena fighting. (wich I enjoy very much). But stupid me did not make his twinks before FC removed some "features" that made twinking real easy.

As in the stacking matter; you may stack Treatment, and Agi imps. All the way to ql 200. It only takes ****loads of time and money. (Or, it did, until fc removed the bug that would allow you to insert a implant that required the previous implants buff, or something like that.

Well Frakk, the treatment stacking nerf was quite a while ago, and I doubt there are many of the twinks left from those days.
Most of a soldiers imps require str/sta and they arent stackable, so forgive me if I doubt that agi is stackable.
I will test on one of my alts tomorrow

Having a twink thats lvl 10 or 15 for ages is booooring. I kept one at 7 for tokens for a while before I gave him up. The sheer tediousness of always doing the same thing that no longer required any skill became too much. PvP is the same, but now you also have the added problem of not gaining points from people who are more than 100 pvp points away. It basically makes no sense for an apprentice to kill non titleds, unless its in a bigger battle.

All in all I dont see the problem as a major one, and there are less and less of the "old" twinks each day.

Again, some professions are very twinkable now too, so dont think that all twinks are "old". Overequipping and supertwinking is very much alive, without the treatment bug you mentioned.

[_____________Chromad]

Originally posted by Frakk2000
Hehe, well I did not mean; remove the implants, just unequipp them. When you are level 200, inserting your implants should not offer any problems.

Again, you'd understand my disagreement with this 'cause my characters aren't lvl 200 thus hypothetically would cause trouble, but agreed: at 200 or even close to it you should not have any troubles getting those imps back in.

Originally posted by Frakk2000
And im not saying nerf the sunburst or old scopes. im simply saying; They are not fair to use in the arena. Im not talking mmd at all. This is all about arena fighting. (wich I enjoy very much). But stupid me did not make his twinks before FC removed some "features" that made twinking real easy..

If this feature would only work whenever entering the arena then it'd be okay with me leaving the people not doing PvP out of this 'fix'. In PvP its unfair to have an edge which wasn't meant to be possible to attain, in PvM its an extra asset to the team. Thats why all fixes to the game coming from PvP aspect usually effect PvM somewhat and vice versa and that just stinks. Remember? Bracers, specific weapons / nanos range decreasement, 50% dmg versus 100% heals and the list goes on... Not a pretty sight.

Still the matter is quite difficult, because the thing what you originally asked Frakk was to unequip all prenerfed implants because they might be equipped by stacking or with the even older treatment stacking bug - so it isn't a nerf at all but would be just a cure to a certain PvP dilemma but again effect some players PvM experience too.

Duh... And this problem isn't even from the hardest part of the list of things, bugs, features and such. I wouldn't want to be a programmer at FC at the moment. =)

[Whiteboog]

Why do people hate twinks :/, obviously i dont mean exploiters but people who have just spent ages getting a nice new gun on and then get abuse when they fight is a bit unfair.

Also scopes are not unfair, not the new ones anyway (and anyone with an old one will have a high level char to supply the cash therefore they deserve to do well in low level pvp). The new scops are cheap and easy to equip, a level 15 char could get a +5 crit scope on i think or at least +4 (adventurer and fixer buffs) its just the init debuffs which cause a problem.

One more thing, im level 81 and i cannt put an implant back in that i took out a while ago cause i needed another one in desperatly, i origionally put it in at level 70ish using quite a bit of the omni med suit (the imp is around ql 126) but now ive upgraded my armour again recently so i cant be bothered taking it all off again then having to go get buffs to get it back on. So its not always easy to re-equip imps even if they are low level.

[Beartwo]

You and Frakk seem to think that there are enough pre-nerf/fix twinks who used the treatment bug to stack into imps they should not be able to wear. Most of these twinks are gone, either their owners got tired of the game due to lack of high lvl content, or they have lvled on becoming normal characters in the process.

There is no reason for a low lvl supertwink to stay at that level very long since there are now rules that say that if you want to get points in pvp you must be within 100pvp points of the opponent. A 4 month old supertwink at lvl 15 would run out of opponents that he/she could fight.

Supertwinking isnt dead, even if FC has put in OE rules. This is extremely apparent in trader and agents. To some extent this also includes Enforcers, but at slightly higher levels.

My 74 agent is almost "fully twinked". This means I have the highest possible implants, armor, weapons, and equipment that is possible using (almost)all helpful items available to her in the game.
But she is built after 14.2 patch and therefore subject to all OE fixes and changes there are.

Apart from eye, head and right hand she uses ql 150-160 implants. Her armor is in the 130-150 range (Kirch and Flowers), and her weapon is a 168 X-3. She has 350+ Ncus. Add to that an old style ELLTS (ql 109) and you have a formidable opponent that no non twink in her pvp range can stand up to.

Due to the ncu space she is able to equip weapons and armor far beyond her lvl, but once they are gone she reverts to a more normal level.

When she goes into Arena she usually has the biggest essences and hp buffs, along with MA and agent crit buffs, weapons buffs. Should I feel particularly nasty I can slap on a soldier reflect and a fixer HoT. WIth all of this I have a 4k hp agent that can fire 3 crits in a row (downing most opponents before they can fire), she heals for up to 400dmg/per 10 seconds and reflects 30% dmg.

The result is impossible to kill unless you are similarly equiped/buffed.

My contention is that most of the twinks Frakk has met have been created post 14.0 patch.

For the agent the downside of all these possibilities in the beginning is that everyone will catch up to you (skills/ncu etc.) And when they do you will have to do 30 levels at least to get your capped skills up to par. For the trader, I am not sure if there is a downside, they seem to become more and more viscious for every level they gain.

[frakk2k]

Tukan, I agree on the nerfs affecting the PvM play, as the nerf with the bracers. A level 180 player would probably be better off using a high reflect bracer. Thus the initial scream I had was directed at arena fights only.

I have many twinks at rubika 2, like my level 2 doctor, with ql30imps, and my level 2 bow ma, with ql40 14.4 made imps. And I enjoy testing out this, profession vs profession. Im simply testing and having fun. And one day, if someone would put on a tourney, I would have great inside information on how to twink within the rules. (They are going to have a level 25 tournament at rk2, sign up everyone :- )

Thing is. I like duelling in the arena. And im not going to gain an edge on your supertwink by leveling, I won't be able to fight him when I have leveled anyway. I really wish fc would do something about the arenas. They are a great spot for social events, like an tourney, with credits prizes and arena titles. I just don't want to fight people who have cheated to win. (the implant bug is exploiting :/ .. )

As with dual weilding ql200 krysses. Its not really fun at all. (<- that is a stupid weapon from the start. I think they should remove it.)

I hope someone over at fc reads this. And understands the value of a new arena system.. The good old mayhem arena is ok I guess. But I want something more special, give us some Colluseum like, gladiator arena.

I still don't see the problem with unequipping the implants. Some might have to equipp them all over again. But that would just be fair. You can gain the edge on other people in other ways than the imps. And if you have a char that have been using the same implants since pre 14.4, and you are leveling with him.. Then.. Well.. To bad, you will probably level enough to equipp them anyways. ;D

[_____________Chromad]

Im quite sure that there aren't many players left with characters having prenerfed implants equipped i agree, but i for example have a couple of alts with prenerf nano programming implants in and would just hate to lose such asset if every prenerfed implant would just unequip. So there might be a few cases and a few out of them aren't twinked towards PvPing. So thats why im somewhat againts the idea of the removal of prenerf imps.

And Beartwo its a fact, as you stated, that twinking isn't dead although the OE patch made it a whole lot challenging to perform so i dont have any issues with that but i do enjoy to twink my characters and to co-op with other people why try to maintain their characters performance by twinking thus enchansing the team efficiency. So, Whiteboog, id say the wast majority of PvM players out there do not hate twinks but instead enjoy their presense. Its just the envious people why hate twinks.

[Turin]

Originally posted by Tukan
I think its a punishment enough that these twinks aren't able to use IPR.

Agreed, that when these twinks do not level at all it gives them a huge edge over the other players but usually you, our dear opponent, level up and can ignore the twink. However, the twink is going to remain, so something could be (read: could, not should) done to twinks like those.

Yet again, this is a change from the PvP perspective effecting the whole rest of the game. If FC would forcefully remove implants i for example would have serious trouble getting my 200 set back in because i think i've lost some treatment giving bonuses somewhere. So IMO, removing implants from the player base is a really bad idea.

Well, all those twinks, are mostly built by experienced players, who made few, if ANY mistakes. And have no reson to IPR. I have a lvl 17 trader with ql70 implants in, and all ql70 gear mostly ( shotgun/armour ), and an old school ql105 llts. and its all NON OE, cause of my imps. I have no need to IPR him at all. I dont play him anymore cause its... well... not fun. He owned EVERYONE. I only lost one duel ever. and that was to an Agent. I got him up to Apprentice, before I got bored.