Again. Multiboxing in AO. ttl7 / ttl5 pvp.

[codetao]

"Enough is enough" +1

[Alternity]

I miss good fights. +1

[Awikun]

MB is not only bad in pvp but also has a negative impact on pvm and on AO economy.

As subject of pvp has already been covered I'll add some facts about pvm:

1. Finding a team for some instances or quests (like DB quest) is a lot harder not only because of low population but also because of multiboxers who are selling their "services" or do it for free to some friends.

2. Prices of many items and lootrights has dropped dramatically becasue 1 multiboxer can achieve the same result as 4-6 ppl (Alien sectors, Xan instances etc.) Some ppl would reply that price dropping is good but they are not seeing the whole picture. Prices are lower but it is a lot harder to single player to earn credits and find team. In some instances you can even see a multiboxer with a mix of paid and froob characters or even froobs only.

3. Take an example of relays from S10. About 1 year ago they were selling for 20-25m each (bare or tuned) now they dropped bellow 10m for Rho relay. Some ppl spend a lot of time, energy and credits to build powerfull S10 farming toons (in some cases as much as 2-3b credits) only to find out now that 1 multiboxer with 6 average or even badly equipped characters will still kill those mobs at least 2 times faster...

4. Some time ago it was quite common that 4-6 ppl teamed together to farm Zodiacs, Beast, Xan, Alien Sectors, DB1-3 etc. in order either to get items for them (or their alts) or sell lootrights. Multiboxer can do the same alone and it takes more or less the same amount of time. As a result multiboxers started to lower prices of everything because for example lets assume that in the past average "worth" of loot from certain instance was 600m and it took about 1 hour to do it with a team of 6 ppl. Each team member would earn on average 100m per hour. Now multiboxer sells exactly the same loot for 300m, he is still happy because he makes 300m per 1 hour of his time. Somebody who was farming it with other people quite often will decide that it is not worth doing for 50m per hour and will earn his credits doing something solo.

I understand that multiboxers are loving what they are doing. I also understand that it takes a lot of practice and a very different "skill" or "art" to become good multiboxer, but if this trend continues then quite soon there will be only several multiboxers playing this game because most (if not all) of pissed off players will quit.

With (hopefully) new engine and some relaunching marketing activities FC should open up 2nd server and make a strict rule: On first server multiboxing becomes bannable offence, on second server is allowed 100% of the time (pvp and pvm). All players with existing accounts can chose which server they prefer ...

[JustADreamer]

Bump. Why is the use of this third-party software allowed?

[titemeta]

I just wish more people share their opinion here

[haxi]

I think they lack both the inclination and ability to do much about it.

[enfsatangirl]

They will never take away MB from the game because MICHZURE loves it, he dont care that they are losing alot of player because of multiboxing.

so u have only 2 choices, stop play the game or start to like that there are a few players that can bully the rest of the players ,

MICHIZURE stands behind them

[titemeta]

I think there is a third choice. Maybe a fourth...

[Cratertina]

I joined some towers this passing week. and it seems side with best multiboxers wins. Itsmostly 2 multiboxer + 12-15 players. Thats Notum Wars these days.

And to be honest as a nonmultiboxer I hardly noticed a diffrence, I did die to opposing multiboxer once. My bad for running in to him while not being in blob.

Pretty much multiboxing is impossible to police. And even so its the norm of the day.

Is it bad for pvp? Before multiboxing people solo griefed towers. Now its multibox sologrief towers. Serius pvpers these days invest in their own multibox.

You just are not a pro pvper without 6 chars boxing around.

Honestly just remove /assist. That will fix most of the problem. Just make multiboxing a lot harder.. potentially remove /follow while in pvp zone.

Just make /follow command not be usable in 25 or lower gas.

[titemeta]

Thx for sharing interesting ideas !!

[RedWatr]

that's actually a decent idea. even tho I'm for anyone being able to do this that's willing to pay for the extra subs, and do all that work to be able to, I don't think it should be easy on them at all. taking /follow away in pvp zones, except for pets ofc, would help. you'd still need to create new strategies to deal with it, but that gives you something to work with. try to accept that FC is not going to do the work for you, they may give you some help, like the /follow removal in gas, but I'm telling you now, be creative or just forget about it. this is a tiny issue, I promise, in the scope of this game there have been other things much more game breaking that we learned to deal with, after that, they disappear.

[DigitalBath]

Not getting too far into this thread because, despite not being a multiboxer, I don't think it's that bad and don't have much of a problem with it. My opinion differs A LOT from those stated on this thread but every time I get into the argument people escalate into fairly horrible insults.

That said, I just want to state VERY clearly that /follow is no longer really needed by multiboxers as can be evidenced by what Never Knows Best is currently doing (not the leveling bots, but their multiboxing tool and the way characters just walk right on top of each other instead of /follow'ing).

If they can do this, they can likely use similar methods to bypass /assist in AO. Doesn't sound unreasonable from a coding perspective as available targets must be stored in the memory somewhere (how would you render them on your screen otherwise?). It might be clunkier but it'll work.. while a legitimate raidforce will no longer be able to /assist to quickly focus down the multiboxer's toons.

Funcom likely will not reverse their policy on multiboxing (as making it bannable would likely be the ONLY viable solution... and it doesn't seem likely at all).
They as a company don't want to and a lot of players don't feel the same as you guys, like it or not. This may be something above Michizure's power, by the way. So don't pin it all on him.. he's doing his best to work the game into something better.

Making MB'ing harder will be very hard on it's own. Making it harder without annoyingly restricting legitimate non-multiboxing play (be it single-log or dual-log players) is nearly impossible.

The people behind it know what they're doing and many, contrary to popular belief, are quite skilled at playing a single toon within their favoured professions.
This might be grim news for many, but it's the way it is. Look up multiboxing in several other games that do not have /follow or /assist. Come up with realistic suggestions afterwards.

Just my 2c.

[Chewy1]

Not getting too far into this thread because, despite not being a multiboxer, I don't think it's that bad and don't have much of a problem with it. My opinion differs A LOT from those stated on this thread but every time I get into the argument people escalate into fairly horrible insults.

That said, I just want to state VERY clearly that /follow is no longer really needed by multiboxers as can be evidenced by what Never Knows Best is currently doing (not the leveling bots, but their multiboxing tool and the way characters just walk right on top of each other instead of /follow'ing).

If they can do this, they can likely use similar methods to bypass /assist in AO. Doesn't sound unreasonable from a coding perspective as available targets must be stored in the memory somewhere (how would you render them on your screen otherwise?). It might be clunkier but it'll work.. while a legitimate raidforce will no longer be able to /assist to quickly focus down the multiboxer's toons.

Funcom likely will not reverse their policy on multiboxing (as making it bannable would likely be the ONLY viable solution... and it doesn't seem likely at all).
They as a company don't want to and a lot of players don't feel the same as you guys, like it or not. This may be something above Michizure's power, by the way. So don't pin it all on him.. he's doing his best to work the game into something better.

Making MB'ing harder will be very hard on it's own. Making it harder without annoyingly restricting legitimate non-multiboxing play (be it single-log or dual-log players) is nearly impossible.

The people behind it know what they're doing and many, contrary to popular belief, are quite skilled at playing a single toon within their favoured professions.
This might be grim news for many, but it's the way it is. Look up multiboxing in several other games that do not have /follow or /assist. Come up with realistic suggestions afterwards.

Just my 2c.

Agreed. Well said.

[Aiken]

+1 for some common sense from DigitalBath.

[Awikun]

That said, I just want to state VERY clearly that /follow is no longer really needed by multiboxers as can be evidenced by what Never Knows Best is currently doing (not the leveling bots, but their multiboxing tool and the way characters just walk right on top of each other instead of /follow'ing).

If they can do this, they can likely use similar methods to bypass /assist in AO. Doesn't sound unreasonable from a coding perspective as available targets must be stored in the memory somewhere (how would you render them on your screen otherwise?). It might be clunkier but it'll work.. while a legitimate raidforce will no longer be able to /assist to quickly focus down the multiboxer's toons.

Funcom likely will not reverse their policy on multiboxing (as making it bannable would likely be the ONLY viable solution... and it doesn't seem likely at all).
They as a company don't want to and a lot of players don't feel the same as you guys, like it or not. This may be something above Michizure's power, by the way. So don't pin it all on him.. he's doing his best to work the game into something better.

Wake up!!!

I checked "Never knows best" forum and it is 100% clear that they are a bunch of hacker and morons with a clear goal of hacking AO in every possible way.
Some idiots there even use the same nicks as in AO forums or character names!
They even brag and show off with screenshots of duped items and credits...

I can not understand how and why FC can tolerate this!
They all should be banned long time ago but somehow (even they admit that some of their accounts were banned) they still coming back with new hacks and "so called tools" which are clearly 3rd party programs that violate EULA.

The concept of mutliboxing and all "tools" used for it are 100% 3rd party programs that violate EULA.
FC should either change EULA or fight that problem.
Doing nothing (as it is now) is like admiting that they are not competent enough to enforce rules that they created ...

[RedWatr]

kids will be kids.

[titemeta]

Also, isn't a mmorpg a game where you play with others ? (I mean it's in the name...) And isn't multiboxing kinda playing solo where it is intended to be played by several players ?
Multiboxing is clearly unattended gameplay. It affects economy. Tower fields are supposed also to give advantage to organizations. They are also make things unfair.

Is it pvp when on a field there is 18 sneaking agents able to just insta kill any raid force that shows up to defend ? Explain me where it is fair and how a "normal" player can fight against it ? So should be normal that 3 guys are able to take down 10 guys immediately... Cause yesterday it was that...

The point is not to be "realistic" and only accept it.

AO isn't a game where there is million players. And from my point of view everyone should have the possibility to enjoy this wonderful game without being under the authority of 4 or 5 guys who decided to rule the game.

[codetao]

The concept of mutliboxing and all "tools" used for it are 100% 3rd party programs that violate EULA.
FC should either change EULA or fight that problem.
Doing nothing (as it is now) is like admiting that they are not competent enough to enforce rules that they created ...

Go to FC company site and read their mission and rules - 100% of it is blablabla...(though their integrity rules are great - but poor implementation) The reality is that FC are mostly bureaucrats, and they pretend that there is no problems at all, waiting all of us will cool down. What we can do - continue rise that topic again and again until they HAVE to deal with it. The only thing what we can use - no threaten, no blackmailing about stop subscription - pure number of paying people who say in full voice that we EXPECT them to change their ATTITUDE about mb. There is no technical way( read lazy way for FC) to stop MB, only petition-GM-ban will work.

[Pharexys]

Hello,

1) Using Game Director name does not make you look good or that you have a point.
2) Multiboxing been in ao since 2004/5, i assume 90% of ppl flaming it doesnt even know what Multiboxing is afterall.
3) In Anarchy Online, Botting, using third party programs is not allowed. And people actualy gets banned for this, i know a few.
4) The normal people who Multibox like myself and my whole guild, we're not using any third party or script programs. There is NOTHING breaking eula, we've never used macro's / script's etc. So it is possible to do it without anything and still be VERY succesfull.
5) I did gaunt with 5 toons alt tabbing the same as with a key broadcaster program, i just feeled like in 2004 when i was dual/triple logging, nothing changed except now i can do more then 2-3 toons at once.

Point is, cry'ing about multiboxing is stupid imo, I've though its botting myself when it started at tl7 wars few years back, when i understood how it works it has nothing to do with botting (there are ppl using scripts/macro's, programs to help them and that is BANNABLE), and to be very good wich means being able to solo any content of the game and distroy 20-30 omnis alone in pvp it is actualy hard work and dedication, who think he makes 6 toons and do it, its a brainless fat pinguing imo, and look at how many players completly fail at be a multiboxer...

In pvm, noone cry's about multiboxer's couse they get free items, easy items, help at raids etc.
In pvp, you get 2-3 170's agents multiboxing and you go complain? Look even clan side has nothing to defend agaisnt them today, i assure you, DI is already having the counter's coming. And evryone should understand and find ways to counter them, look at that punk guy who everyone suck hes balls, we totaly dominated him since im back, what can he do? kill 1 guy ? so what we warp it back. They made 170's couse they cant do **** with 175's anymore... you see they addapted, now is our time to addapt.. So stop complaining be you omni or clan and start working... YOU DO NOT NEED TO MULTIBOX to BE ABLE TO KILL A MULTIBOX. There is very easy to counter 170's just need some cooperation.

Why dont you do some research about it in other games, before accusing and speaking about it ?

Do you imagine if AO had the macro and the support WOW has for multiboxers ?

Once again, i am totaly agaisnt any kind of botting or programs etc. And i am reporting evryone i see doing it, i dont care who he is. But telling me, I should be banned couse I pay 13 accounts and I made 13 220's fully equiped, its the most retarded and non-sense sentence i ever heard. This is *******/Phatznet/Tnet etc mentality of controling what I can do ingame or how to play the game.
If i wanna pay 13 accounts and dedicate months and months to create my perfect toons, then i should get some benefits isnt it ?

Let me tell you one thing, to people who accuse Michi of not /care'ing, 99% of Multiboxers cannot solo any content anymore, becouse Michi who you flame so much, took in consideration of addapting fight boses so people cannot solo it that easy wth multibox anymore. Unfortunaly for him, DI will always addapt and learn new ways to do them. But evryone else have either quited or cannot do many of the encouters anymore.
They know about it, they trying to fix issues, but in no way they can tell a player, you can pay 13 accounts but you cannot use them.. You have to understand that the only decision they can take is to stop dual logging, that affects 99% of player base, it is impossible to take such decision. So they been addapting pvm encounters, they increased health on towers.. so how the **** can you say they dont do things to improve the gameplay and make life of multiboxers harder ?

[RedWatr]

this is nothing, simply the lack of anything real to complain about imo. try gathering 50 people to defend your base, and as soon as you rush the CT, your entire group gets split into 3 different zones, that's a REAL problem, this? this is laziness to adapt.