Caloss2 LVL 220 melee VANGUARD (semi retired).....Llewlyn 220/30/70 meepmeep.....Boooocal 220../30/70 Soldier.......Knack 220/30/70 Keeper.....Hiesenberg 215/xx/xx NT NERFED Neytiri1 220/30/70 Shade Knacker220/30/70Meat shield
https://www.youtube.com/user/caloss2 for guides/walkthroughs/letsplays and all your other AO needsOriginally Posted by Mastablasta
Caloss2 LVL 220 melee VANGUARD (semi retired).....Llewlyn 220/30/70 meepmeep.....Boooocal 220../30/70 Soldier.......Knack 220/30/70 Keeper.....Hiesenberg 215/xx/xx NT NERFED Neytiri1 220/30/70 Shade Knacker220/30/70Meat shield
https://www.youtube.com/user/caloss2 for guides/walkthroughs/letsplays and all your other AO needsOriginally Posted by Mastablasta
I honestly can't believe Aiken didn't pick up on this, but Crats got a brutal nerf in this patch and it seems nobody except me has picked up on it.
I've explained it like 4 times now and it still seems to be unfathomable.
I don't get it.
But here's the gist of it one more time:
Everyone gains AR/evades from crats.
This makes crats RELATIVELY WEAKER.
No other profs can boost crats as much as crats boost others.
Other profs gain MORE AR than crats gain defence (the crux of the entire problem).
Thus, crats are totally, totally, badly nerfed in this patch.
Crats got DIRECTLY defensively nerfed by 50AAD (ICRT doesn't stack with Eye of predator - it's not been established yet if this is intentional)
Crats got indirectly offensively nerfed by troaler max AS recharge creeping up to about 18s (self) vs (11s with OSB).
But crats got indirectly relatively BRUTALLY nerfed by advy losing OSBable evades.
So, here are some numbers so you guys hopefully finally understand:
All OSB in team are:
take soldier/fixer as example, they gain the max, in a team with (for example), crat/advy/advy/keeper/trader
410AAD
100AAD
210AAD
110AAD
= 830AAD
And
260AAO
133AAO
120AAO
110AAO
153skill
776 skill/AAO
Now, here is what a crat gains:
210AAD
110AAD
= 330AAD
And
120AAO
110AAO
153skill
383 skill/AAO
For a prof who is absolutely reliant on static defences in prolonged combat, this, in no way less than certainty, spells obvious demise.
Consider, for a moment another evade prof - lets say, fixer.
Fixer gains 800+ defence and AR in this team, has WELL over the amount of evades needed to stay EASILY unperkable regardless of what defence he has up, has JUST AS GOOD CC as a crat (thank you for pointing that out Lazy), as WELL as having very significant healing.
how about advy?
While crats become perkable in mass PVP, with few other defences other than short term non-cyclable defences, advy, on the other hand gains massive boosts in AR and evades, PLUS has cyclic evades, PLUS has reflects, PLUS has healing, PLUS has coon, PLUS has best in game escape mechanics... I mean, really.... Not to mention, that all in, advy not only stay non perkable in any stage of their cyclic defence, but become borderline unperkable if they fail their cycle ?! (based on higher proportion of AR and defence coming from AAO and AAD rather than evades and skill).
How about MA? Same thing.
How about keeper?
Keeper is the closest prof to crat in this scenario, but still comes out way ahead since the amount the crat boosts keeper by is significantly less (less than half) of what the keeper boosts the crat by.
All in? Crat is just a piece of trash atm.
loss of evades from advy has absolutely screwed the crat out of being remotely competitive in mass PVP... and not one other crat has noticed this?
wtf.
Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; May 1st, 2015 at 01:42:15.
Agreed 100%.
Also , people have to realize that Crats are POLITICIANS, and POLITICIANS really dont go to war, so now I think it is WONDERFULLY "broken".
If you want to PVP, go oldschool and roll a Soldier.
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Caloss2 LVL 220 melee VANGUARD (semi retired).....Llewlyn 220/30/70 meepmeep.....Boooocal 220../30/70 Soldier.......Knack 220/30/70 Keeper.....Hiesenberg 215/xx/xx NT NERFED Neytiri1 220/30/70 Shade Knacker220/30/70Meat shield
https://www.youtube.com/user/caloss2 for guides/walkthroughs/letsplays and all your other AO needsOriginally Posted by Mastablasta
I find it a bit difficult to accept the Adv team-buff nerf as something that "BRUTALLY nerfed" Crats. Excepting Multiboxers, what Crat can plan on reliably having an Adv in their team for mass PvP? For that matter, do most Crats perpetually have raid buffs running? This seems more like "McKnuckle's Crat got brutally nerfed" than "Crats as a profession got brutally nerfed", since McKnuckle's Crat is part of a box with an Adv and an Engi and he does keep raid buffs up, and now his Crat has fewer spec blockers and lower evades than it used to. But I'd be surprised if there were all that many Crats in the same situation.
In absolute terms, Crats have gotten defensively buffed now that DTB is 21 secon duration/90 second cooldown rather than 17 second duration/120 second cooldown.
In relative terms, 18.7 shifted the balance in favor of attack in general. A whole bunch of perks have more favorable checks now; before it was mostly Pistol perks that were easy to land. This does hurt Crats more than most, since evades are their primary defense, and at static defense levels they are broadly perkable now. Perhaps a .01 second execution time on DTB is a possible solution? Seems like only the caller would be able to queue perks before the Crat could react and get DtB up then?
sounds like inside information.
But you're only partially correct.
For a "maxed" out crat, they got nerfed (ICRT doesn't stack with eye of predator).
The boost for DTB isn't a particularly advantageous solution (although it is a slight boost).
But even for non-maxed out crats, it's still a nerf. 2s duration more on a super buff isn't particularly helpful.
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The whole discussion is pretty laughable anyway when every single 'problem' that's been discussed, has been suffered by Traders for the past god knows how long.
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Well waki, that is a convincing and non-arguable fact regarding up time that I didn't notice, and based on that I'll have to reassess what the actual "no buff" or "static" evades time is for crats.
Thank you for pointing it out.
My facts are undeniable for "static" evades, however, if it turns out that crat "perked" boost is sufficient enough to keep our defences 66-75% of the time, I'll most certainly admit that I overlooked a key component of our defence.
I estimated earlier that the 500 AAD on overrule in fact made crats unperkable (even completely OSB'd on advies) however, fixers should still be well within "easygank" mode even with 500 AAD boost up due to LICC or with any dodge/AAD debuff from trader/soldier/keeper/fixer/MA/ crat (pressure matrix- which I do admit is a random proc) /enforcer with Dpanther / shade/agent.
So, with overrule or blast shield up, crats are safe against MP/engi/doctor/crat most of the time; which isn't saying much.
vs anyone else, these defences are insufficient.
So vs 3/12
Crats with overrule have at least 4100 aad which puts them about 1k aad over what an endgame pvp trox Fixer can hit. We need both po and LICC to land if we want to reliably perk crats as I've explained elsewhere in this thread. 4100 aad puts crats out of perk range of just about everyone these days.
why is this about fixers anyway? no one plays fixer any more, mps, mps, mps and advies/shades seem to be fotm judging by what shows up on bs.