Testlive 18.7.0.17 Changes

[Metafly7]

Two handed blunt weaponry has very few users these days. The only aparent ones are enforcers and those that do use 2hb there are mostly PvMers. What does usually show up for this type of weapon however is the area effect that is tied to it. For instance the seismic smash on "Bone Crusher" perkline. If you look at movies there is usually the relatively cheesy smash on the ground giving an earthquake like effect and im unfamiliar with other games but im pretty sure there is something like exactly that earthquake like effect incorporated into it.

I dont think its ever really been done for a weapon but i could imagine opening some perk actions tied to a certain weapon. Or otherwise a perkline could be created for Mp 2hb looking quite similar to Bone Crusher for Enforcers.

What im going to move towards is the effect of actually rather high damage from a 2hb weapon and more likely the semi large range effect of such a usually hughe weapon. Idea here would be from my perspective would be to actually have high damage that is relatively hard to land (so opposite of ur high AR idea) but its perk/side effect would be all the more easy to land.
To draw the picture, ur holding a 2 meter long shaft and a hell of a heavy hammerish kind of end. Now to direct that thing to a moving object is going to be hard, but u can instead of hitting the person just hit the ground its standing on and make the person loose its balance.
So the large damage lets say even bigger than the Xan 2hb weapon would be slow and powerfull with not that much AR so hard to land, but the side effects perks and procs do work.
The perks and procs i would have in mind would be the knockback action in area as it happens in Collector (maybe smaller knockback if they can actually alter that) area stuns, area init debuffs like they happen at every earthquake in the DB1/2 areas and the last part would be to with every hit you do with that weapon enlarge its AR like the procs on Kyr weapons to simulate the unstabalizing of your enemy due to the side effects of having such a weapon crush in the ground next to you, making u unbalanced. This AR would reach a reasonable amount to even hit evaders after for instance 5-10 side effects landing.

This would be cool because you would have to be able to survive for that amount of time to get that far so if u survive u deserve getting that AR. Next to that it would have a sort of crowd control effect in mass pvp due to its knockback and area stuns/debuffs. These perks/side effects would have to be checking low defence because its not directed at the target but the area say 35% evade close.

How do you like that idea Dance?

[Psikie]

Psikie: Weapon perkline perks simply will not function if the weapon held in the hand is not at least 51% whatever basic weaponskill. Perks in Ranger won't do a thing if you're using a creation bow, Blunt Mastery perks can't be used with creation weapons, etc. That's the big argument on how Creation weapons should be handled, on one hand you have people who want to get the most out of the T&S skill that we excel at versus weaponskills that are third rate, on the other people who want to be able to use the perks that go with their weapon because they invested perk points into these lines and dagnabbit, they want to run perk actions!

I totally understand that. What I'm getting at is this. If you want to use perk actions use a regular weapon NOT a creation weapon. The main selling point to creation weapons is really the best AR MPs can get which is useful for all our other perks. All things considered I think advocating for weapon perks is a bad idea because honestly we will never have enough AR with any weapon to reliably perk evaders in pvp any way. I think it would be in our best interest to ask for better poison procs on creation weapons instead of specials/perks. Because procs fire off and just do dmg and you may not be able to count on them 100% towards DPS but they are more reliable than "new mechanic deflected" specials and perks that miss anyway because of crappy weapon AR. Hope that makes sense.

[lainbr]

Two handed blunt weaponry has very few users these days. The only aparent ones are enforcers and those that do use 2hb there are mostly PvMers. What does usually show up for this type of weapon however is the area effect that is tied to it. For instance the seismic smash on "Bone Crusher" perkline. If you look at movies there is usually the relatively cheesy smash on the ground giving an earthquake like effect and im unfamiliar with other games but im pretty sure there is something like exactly that earthquake like effect incorporated into it.

I dont think its ever really been done for a weapon but i could imagine opening some perk actions tied to a certain weapon. Or otherwise a perkline could be created for Mp 2hb looking quite similar to Bone Crusher for Enforcers.

What im going to move towards is the effect of actually rather high damage from a 2hb weapon and more likely the semi large range effect of such a usually hughe weapon. Idea here would be from my perspective would be to actually have high damage that is relatively hard to land (so opposite of ur high AR idea) but its perk/side effect would be all the more easy to land.
To draw the picture, ur holding a 2 meter long shaft and a hell of a heavy hammerish kind of end. Now to direct that thing to a moving object is going to be hard, but u can instead of hitting the person just hit the ground its standing on and make the person loose its balance.
So the large damage lets say even bigger than the Xan 2hb weapon would be slow and powerfull with not that much AR so hard to land, but the side effects perks and procs do work.
The perks and procs i would have in mind would be the knockback action in area as it happens in Collector (maybe smaller knockback if they can actually alter that) area stuns, area init debuffs like they happen at every earthquake in the DB1/2 areas and the last part would be to with every hit you do with that weapon enlarge its AR like the procs on Kyr weapons to simulate the unstabalizing of your enemy due to the side effects of having such a weapon crush in the ground next to you, making u unbalanced. This AR would reach a reasonable amount to even hit evaders after for instance 5-10 side effects landing.

This would be cool because you would have to be able to survive for that amount of time to get that far so if u survive u deserve getting that AR. Next to that it would have a sort of crowd control effect in mass pvp due to its knockback and area stuns/debuffs. These perks/side effects would have to be checking low defence because its not directed at the target but the area say 35% evade close.

How do you like that idea Dance?

I'm in Dancingrage team atm xD. I think you did an awesome sugestion... for Enforcers

MP 2hb (aka, le creation weaps) are not big badass hammers, but staves. Snake likely staves. *imaginations running wild after this* Alive likely snake staves. That bites the opponent ever if it 'miss' (the always hit idea). And the bite is poisonous (the debuff and/or DoT idea).

I'm not against/do not disagree with the idea of 2 diferent 2hb weap style though.

[Le-Quack]

we should discuss the options to maybe ask devs about giving something for all non shield user mp's

[Dancingrage]

Psikie: You have essentially pointed out one half of the Great MP Flame War that consumed the forums years ago that could have it's true history traced all the way back to the start of SL. The other half wants perk actions and the ability to try to land them and to the dark pits with the complainers.

@Lainbr and Fly: The big problem with 2hb, again, craptastic AR at base. Thusly why I cooked up the idea in the first place was trying to make 2hb look usable in an outside of creation weapon concept, which rolled into 2hb, which rolled into what we are looking at ideawise now. Still gotta see if the devs will bite though. In a lot of ways it makes good sense, just gotta see if it gets anywhere.

[Psikie]

Psikie: You have essentially pointed out one half of the Great MP Flame War that consumed the forums years ago that could have it's true history traced all the way back to the start of SL. The other half wants perk actions and the ability to try to land them and to the dark pits with the complainers.

I didn't think anyone would remember that lol.

The only problem I see with perks is convincing the Devs to somehow give MPs a 500-1000 AAO buff or 500-1000 AAD DEBUFF http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=267261 roflol. Because that's what the avg MP would need to ever have any use out of those requested perks. I would absolutely love an AAD debuff but good luck with that ever happening...although that would be a pimp mezz pet ability.

[lainbr]

I love you positive view, Psikie. Because I think we would need something more like 1.5-2k AAO buff or AAD debuff for MPs to funcionaly perk anything who isnt doc.

[Le-Quack]

nano: cast on target
target gets drained 1000 aao for 15 seconds
cooldown 2 min
defence 50% nr
attack some nanoline

something like it would be nice. 15 seconds with a 2 min cooldown would do allot for the mp defence and would be a significant change for all non shield users.
thens it all about timeing and skills.
becose use it wrong and u have 10 perks running at you since keybindinig in ao allows you to run a full hotbar in 1 click.

[Demoder]

If you go here and click on the "Verbose" button on the top right side you can read that Shield of Zset is indeed wieldable in both right and left hand, Shield of Esa however seems to still be left hand only.Hope that helps you unleash the M-F-moonwalk

This bug should be fixed now, and the site should once again show possible equipment slots.

[Psikie]

This bug should be fixed now, and the site should once again show possible equipment slots.

Site appears down atm...

[Dancingrage]

So I found the 'Suggestion Thread' and put down my two cents:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...43#post6197443

Let me know if there's something missing. I figure now's the time to mention that the -000 weapons need halp since they're busy with them, but the idea I had of making something like a sliding scale of debuffing instead of an 'all or nothing' which gives us the option to keep the nerf on a target without having to go all the way and then have that get nerfed later. Instead of Nano ShutDown, NanoBot ShutDown, nerfing the damage instead of attempting to cripple the skills. Would work better in PvM, I can think of a few encounters I'd have liked -nanodamage against while levelling up. Mentioned the sweetened SS and CR that I'd thought of years ago too. I can even write that out for anyone who's curious.

[JustinSane4]

That thread is for each player's suggestions, so if those are yours, pretty much by definition you can't have missed anything .

What I personally would like most is better pets, and was a bit surprised that an improved 220 attack pet wasn't in your list, as you've eloquently advocated for that in the past.

I kind of hate the damage debuff suggestion, as we could only debuff one mob at a time (or zero if the nano does not land), and in solo PvM it's frequently necessary to debuff several. The only way this could make a bit of sense is if it came at the same time as the AOE mezz pet, but it still seems like a definite downgrade to me.

Everything else looks very nice indeed - as we've come to expect from your MP ideas. I particularly like the 2hb creation staff debuff stick concept.

[Psikie]

I love the yellow heal shield idea, and the 2hb remod nerf stick idea.

WTB New attack pet.

AOE mezz pet make sure it does not "break on attack" other calms please.

[lainbr]

The damage debuffs should have a targed lock, not a line cd, just like it already is in the "wise" old nanodocs.
As Justin said, you also forgot about reworked pets overall and better scaling with our nanoskills.

[Towerblock]

I just want pets that aren't pansies, and better more useful debuffs that stick and hurt.

[Dancingrage]

Yeah, I think that given how often we've asked for improved pets over the last 14 years that that would have been a given. That said, that was before Genele even came on board, and with Macrosun gone I have concerns about trying to pull off my old idea of a pet taunt nano. If I ever win the lottery so help me I will bribe him with a huge amount of money to finish what he started.

If it gets that bad I may have to put in an application to FC specifically to get the numbers done like it's been needing doing forever. Granted given I'm already employed that might make things a little difficult. For the record, however, my opinion is that most of what's needed at this point is someone to go into the DB, alter numbers like they were born with a CPU in their right frontal lobe, and run tests to make sure you didn't accidentally break anything. Given that a lot of stuff that was just dreamed about when I was a professional is active now and working, I suspect at this point it's just repeatedly doing numbers and managing to stay sane about it. I could very well be wrong here, so don't take my word on this as gospel.

@JustinSane: My thought was that it was not local cooldown like is the rage but lockout nano running on the target that would prevent the nano being run again for xyz time. One target at a time would be silly. Same for the nanodamage debuff. The concept was that you had a call on how much you could debuff, but if you went full bore, you'd be looking at a time where it wasn't working, and I can think of a situation or three where I'd have to think real hard about using that, or if I did, scramble like mad to make sure the poor sod tanking was going to survive once the debuff dropped.

The crazy thing is that aside from the 'Nerf Bat' almost all of these suggestions have been posted by me in one form or another for ages. I even have somewhere a request for an upgraded Urn Pet based on the Hisii Berserker mesh (Aztur/Hezak/etc.) since that was well out of date for what was once the best possible pet that the MP could have gotten prior to SL. It'd be nice to have some of these put into play, the healing shield alone seems like it'd be difficult but I can look at an item from IS that would be a good template for how that would work, but my su****ion is the manpower is far lower than it would have been in previous years so making interesting rewrites to the profession, while great, will be really hard to implement from a 'I get permission from my superiors to code this up and put it into the game' perspective. I'm not sure.

At any rate, if you guys want more ideas, let me know, I'm working this weekend and have chunks of time in between work to just think stuff up.

EDIT: I'm gonna edit my suggestion thread to include a few more things.

[Dancingrage]

I have an idea.

Actually, I have a couple, and I'm going to float them by you guys to see what you think.

The bigger problem facing us as MPs is that, at the end of the day, our pets are static, and don't change, which is really odd considering that our pets are basically extensions of ourselves and as our skills grow, so should our pets. Common complaint over the years, more so now that power creep is really starting to set in.

Bureaucrats have a line of nanos, that when cast on a poor mark, er, charm, can temporarily bring it from a weak state to a much stronger state, making a potential powerhouse out of a leet you just charmed in the BackYard. Granted, the leet is going to die of exhaustion from being given 200+ temporary levels. We are working with better starting materials, so I don't think having our pets keel over afterwards is going to be a concern.

The biggest problem facing us as MPs with regards to our pets and trying to make them grow with us is that our pets are static, and in order to make them grow with us a new pet has to be coded in and added to the nano whenever you need to expand the range of a certain pet, let's say the mythical Halikaarn or whatever his name was going to be. You'd have to code up a whole new pet every time you wanted to beef up the nano or if MP skills were starting to reach a new threshold thanks to buffs.

Sure this would give the results we want, a mightier pet, but the concern I am looking at is that the developers might not have the time or manpower these days to break out a new pet every time MP skills hit new heights. And that's not counting the healpets or mezzballs!

So between this and the realization that we have the one line that currently attempts to buff all our pets (not terribly successful at it, since it only is for the attack pet, but hey), the idea occurred to me that as a potential fix for this, we could ask for a buffing line that increases the amount buffed based on our skills as a master. This would kill quite a few birds with one stone, giving MPs that potential for future growth that would last for many moons to come, all that's needed is to tweak the nano (nanos, more in a second) in question to add a few more entries for higher skill amounts, in the even that it comes up, and while it is indeed quite the bandaid fix, it is one that could be implemented sooner and without having to completely create new pets for every increase in skill past a certain threshold.

The initial idea I had has a number of different nanos at, say, different TLs. This gives the opportunity for MPs who have obnoxious levels of nanoskills for the level they're playing at to be able to put this to use on their pets and get more out of them instead of watching as equips and setups that were usually higher level migrate down with little they can do about it in terms of what their pets can do. This would also give a good fix for the 'Zhok at TL5' problem I posted: If I could give Biazu legendary levels of buffing because I have over 700 skill beyond its casting available then I wouldn't be quite as worried about not having access to Zhok because I would be able to make my current locked pet step up it's performance to match my skill and ability. The reason for having nanos at different TLs being that there would be different 'sweet spots' in the buffing each nano would provide, and also that the needs of each TL are going to be different from each other. There is no way I can expect to see Biazu-grade skills on a TL1 MP. Thusly, the TL1 nano would have no need for skills reaching that high, and this allows for diminishing returns past a certain almost-arbitrary point. Changing the 'sweet spot' based on TL and expected skill amounts for that given TL give this a potentially potent method for MPs to keep up in the face of power creep with little effort from the developers' part past the initial nanoline creation and coding. This line could very well replace just about every MP Pet buffing line except possibly for the Chant line, and between you and me I'd enjoy it if the other pets got their hands on some +900 inits, if this line is still going to still be around.

So the structure of the nano would read something like this:

If MC/TS => 120 MC 120 TS then;

Cast 'Infusion of the Master' on all pets.

If in the NCU of Attack Pet;
+15 AAO
+25 Add All Damage
+75 All ACs
+100 Max Health

If in the NCU of Mezz Pet, then;
+15 PsyMod
+15 SenseImp
+5% NanoDamage (this is assuming a Nuking pet is ever created as an alternative to the Mezz pet)
+15 Add All Def.
+ 75 Add All ACs
+75 Max Health

If in NCU of the Heal Pet, then;
+5% Healing Efficiency
+10 Add All Def.
+15 Nano Resist
+60 Add All AC's
+75 Max Health


...with different versions being cast at different skill levels of the master. The above numbers were made up for the example, so no panic over asking for 5% Healing Eff for a healpet at TL1.

This, I think, will be how we can fix the Meta-Physicist profession in a lasting method that will keep us from having to suffer from the effects of Power Creep without having access to that same Power Creep ourselves.

Edit: Ok, finished this and the other post, and I had to tweak it for readability since, like a lot of my idea posts, it got a bit long. Debating tweaking the color of the opening sentence for TL;DR, let me know what you guys think about it.

[JustinSane4]

It's an interesting idea. My only real concern is how much development time we can reasonably expect to get for MPs, and if that's not a lot, what our priorities are. Personally I think nothing is as important as new pets. I've less concerned about their future scalability because I honestly don't expect AO to last into the indefinite future. Nusquam has stated that the size of AO's development team has always and continues to track with revenue, and we're down to one dev now. So for me, I think if we can get new endgame pets and nothing else, we'll be doing quite well as far as how much of Michizure's limited resources he can devote to MP specific issues. It seems quite unlikely we'll get new pets and major additional nano-reworks on top of it, unless they follow the work that has already been done in Genele's MP nano doc. So as an individual player (not as a professional) I'm trying to not ask for the moon, just for new endgame-worthy pets, since that helps every single 220 MP and IMHO is the most important improvement we could get that seems plausible to actually make in game some day before the lights go out.

[Psikie]

Side note any new urn pet should look like the tara mob...ghasp (is that right name?) because its a skeleton mesh also. Color red.

[Dancingrage]

Then the final call, assuming there's ONE thing Michi can get time for MPs will depend on what's already been done up to this point. If most of the work was done on the mesh, then great, finish that up and get the new pet out. On the other hand, if not enough was done on the mesh to get the pet out then it will very likely be easier to at the very least get a nano made and out the door to give our top level pets the buffing they desperately need. I wasn't kidding when I said I could do the numbers work in my off time: I have 3 days off a week and nothing to do with them. You know the old MP profs almost always wind up contributing directly to the game in some manner anyways.