The Economy isn't Broken

[Encyros]

As I've mentioned multiple times - the only way to fix current economy state is to implement periodic tax that will hit every character and GMI bank account and decrease current amount of creds by some %.
For example - it may be 10%.
And theres nothing bad about it. 10% tax monthly is a reasonable amount (100% monthly obtained creds is 3% daily average).

That way players will hold phats for longer to try to "save" creds, while others will try to buy phats faster due to incoming credits loss.

That way players will either be interested to spend creds to gear their toons up as soon as possible, while others will still hold phats.

For a moment of time we'll have a shortage on specific goods, but after that economy will fix itself, as far as overall farming/raiding interest will increase due to shortage on specific items.

Other economy fix method could be making every item nodrop, but that'll ruin tradeskill system, so can't be implemented.

My first response to circumventing this system would be to promote use of a barter economy with a useful, easy to obtain and widely available consumable, such as CRU, and conduct trades in CRU% instead of credits.

Of course, people will still use credits for minor transactions, but the lure of tax avoidance should be sufficient to ensure that serious transactions move to the stable barter medium. It would function much as Path of Exile does.

CRU is well placed as a currency as it may be spent for a chance to generate items of true worth.

It's not even relevant to me whether other people take up this idea. If I'm alone in its support, I will purchase CRU with all my currency, becoming a CRU monopolist and being able to sell some off at my convenience for purchase, placed so that my wealth is never taxed.

If CRU is taxed instead it is easy to move to Basic Armour, which is infeasible to make NoDrop.

There's always going to be some easy-to-sell staple that I can stock up on to liberate when I need to purchase something, so that any liquid credits are immediately spent.

[Difs]

As I've mentioned multiple times - the only way to fix current economy state is to implement periodic tax that will hit every character and GMI bank account and decrease current amount of creds by some %.
For example - it may be 10%.
And theres nothing bad about it. 10% tax monthly is a reasonable amount (100% monthly obtained creds is 3% daily average).

That way players will hold phats for longer to try to "save" creds, while others will try to buy phats faster due to incoming credits loss.

That way players will either be interested to spend creds to gear their toons up as soon as possible, while others will still hold phats.

For a moment of time we'll have a shortage on specific goods, but after that economy will fix itself, as far as overall farming/raiding interest will increase due to shortage on specific items.

Other economy fix method could be making every item nodrop, but that'll ruin tradeskill system, so can't be implemented.

So let me get this straight: if I have 10b and I quit AO for 1 year (irl problems, bored, etc), when I return I will have around 2.8b
Welcome to my top 10 dumbest ideeas.

[Encyros]

So let me get this straight: if I have 10b and I quit AO for 1 year (irl problems, bored, etc), when I return I will have around 2.8b
Welcome to my top 10 dumbest ideeas.

Meanwhile all the active players will keep our wealth by avoiding tax. It's brilliant isn't it.

I'm almost tempted to support it just because how much it would benefit traders

[Animalz]

As I've mentioned multiple times - the only way to fix current economy state is to implement periodic tax that will hit every character and GMI bank account and decrease current amount of creds by some %.
For example - it may be 10%.
And theres nothing bad about it. 10% tax monthly is a reasonable amount (100% monthly obtained creds is 3% daily average).

Would just be better to have character bankers then, with 0% tax.

[Encyros]

And if this happens, I'm starting an in-game tax-avoidance scheme. You read it here first!

Omni-Tek: We Care! Omni-Tek Protects!

[Animalz]

If something should me implemented to "fix" current economy, make more armor that requires shop-buyable parts that costs 5-10m..

Or tradeskill processes.. just something to leech credits from player>NPC and not player>player.

[Encyros]

Now that really is a good idea!

Jobe Lux, PMV for 1b each per char would be welcome too.

Would buy

[Towerblock]

I dunno about most people, but this sounds like exactly why inflation happens in the first place. The moment you set a minimum number, that's what people are going to shoot over. That minimum number becomes a standard and inflation is the act of raising it.

the fact that bounties were at the rate of 4m each and then removed, sets a certain example.

Even with my paltry 5 billion, 5-10m is a drop in a bucket.

A double standard economy, like the original guild wars - consisted of Platinum and Ectoplasms. While this was a neat idea, it didn't stop inflation at all. Some of the richest people in game trade IGOC's and RBP's and full exact ql sets of combined armor seem to be already in circulation as the norm.

[Awikun]

CRU is well placed as a currency as it may be spent for a chance to generate items of true worth.

It's not even relevant to me whether other people take up this idea. If I'm alone in its support, I will purchase CRU with all my currency, becoming a CRU monopolist and being able to sell some off at my convenience for purchase, placed so that my wealth is never taxed.

Great idea but you missed one major problem:
When / if you do it and realise that some exploiters manage to create froob characters with inventory full of backpacks with stacks of 50 000 CRU.
What happen next ?...

[Encyros]

Great idea but you missed one major problem:
When / if you do it and realise that some exploiters manage to create froob characters with inventory full of backpacks with stacks of 50 000 CRU.
What happen next ?...

That's not a major problem, it's just something we'd have to live with. Whatever is decided as an exchange medium people are going to try to dupe. Credits have been duped, Combined has been duped, who knows what else.

Plainly, it's not like you're likely to be better off using credits.

As long as an alternative system leaves you better off than the original it's a feasible way to go.

[Animalz]

Sounds like you are defending the dupe bug...
It is a problem. One person are not suppose to copy/paste items without having any cost.
That's the way of the universe buddy, you simply can't, cause you are not suppose to.

[Awikun]

I have never duped any item and I managed to equip some characters in top endgame gear.

Most of my income (last year) came from playing my level 200 Crat and selling loot and loot rights from S7. Over the year the prices changed a lot (not always up) and I can tell you from my memory the price range (lowest and highest price I ever got)
Memories XP and damage 5m - 50m
NCU for belt 10m -40m
Powerunit for belt 50m-200m
NR ring 10m - 50m
Larva 30m - 200m
SE weapons 10m -30m
SE pistol 10m - 100m

So from my point of view inflation does not hurt me that much before the prices of items I farm follow the inflation.
The problem is that I've spent around 2-3b to make this twink and any new player have no chance of providing any kind of "high income" services and is forced to sell "crap loot" to shop terminals ...

Wild Idea: maybe FC should give to all shop terminals and vendors a multiplier so every item will be bought at 2x, 3x, 5x, or even 10x it present price?

[Encyros]

The critique was the CRU may be problematic as an alternative currency because exploiters may dupe CRU.

The defence was that credits and valuable items have been duped before, so whatever we choose to make valuable could provide motivation for duping.
Secondly that the proposal was to dodge a 10% credit tax, which it should be able to do.

The thread is about the non-exploiting majority dealing with the consequences of duping. My proposition is that, when those dupers are banned, it is not problematic for the economy for the duped credits to be flowing around. That's all in the OP.

[Anonimofied]

Exploiters will always be around where there is money and values. We can never get rid of exploiters, we can only learn from their creativity, so we know how to resist their techniques.

[Grandpa]

Of course the economy needs to be fixed!
But not for us oldtimers, but for new accounts.

Start a new paid account, roll a new toon and advance without outside help:
No credits, no gear, no power-leveling, no pockets, no friends/orgs yet, no raid city, not even buff alts.
And of course, no going to the gold spammers.

How long will it take you to get your first billion?
And what can you get for that billion in today's economy?

Exploiters will always be around where there is money and values. We can never get rid of exploiters, we can only learn from their creativity, so we know how to resist their techniques.

Yes, rule #1 of every MMO: if it can be exploited, it will be exploited.
A game developer must always be vigilant, respond quickly and decisively to such threats.

The well-known GMI glitch was NOT the only one, there were at least 3 more that I'm aware of.
Each one of them devastating to the game (and it's economy) in its own right.

FunCom failed, there is no sugar-coating this!
Failed to secure the code.
Failed to punish the perpetrators (yes, they are still around).
Failed to correct the damage each time - they didn't even try.

FunCom's complacency ruined the economy.
It would take something drastic to correct it and I just don't see that happening.
So, because of the economy, new (paying) customers have been priced right out of the game.
The End.

[Encyros]

How long will it take you to get your first billion?
And what can you get for that billion in today's economy?

If a new player is prepared to team to do content, is able to become reasonably skilled (which has its own challenges, unrelated to the economy), and is prepared to play one of the cheaper-to-gear professions as their first toon, they will not run into financial trouble.

A Doctor who gains their first billion in about two months will not lack for funds for the best endgame gear in the game, provided they are willing to do content, and will not buy lootrights for NoDrop items.

It is worth mention that a raiding city is now extremely cheap.

Pretending that laziness is a necessity is fallacious. Anarchy Online has one of the most complicated, confusing, and ill-explained-by-the-Game-Company RPG systems out there. One has to embrace mystery and complexity to keep being drawn to the game.

A new player is going to gimp their toon. They'll then either leave, or reroll to make a better toon the second-time around. I don't think anyone really approached AO with the mindset that they will make the best ganker this game has ever seen in the space of half a year.

[Stillian]

If a new player is prepared to team to do content, is able to become reasonably skilled (which has its own challenges, unrelated to the economy), and is prepared to play one of the cheaper-to-gear professions as their first toon, they will not run into financial trouble.

A Doctor who gains their first billion in about two months will not lack for funds for the best endgame gear in the game, provided they are willing to do content, and will not buy lootrights for NoDrop items.

But how are they expected to know what's cheap, even on a second re-roll? With a population that isn't focusing on people at low-levels, there's very few people out there helping lowbies with this kind of info. It remains, pretty much as it always has been, sink or swim; not something we can afford anymore, with such a low population

On what planet?

[ilengineeru]

Yes you can charge more for providing a service now than you could when the game launched but the amount you earn from quest rewards and vendoring items hasn't scaled up as the economy has grown. You need credit generation methods and credit sinks in equal measure to keep credits flowing. The measure of an economy is by throughput.

Notice how you can grow your wealth completing quests or simply vendoring items in games such as WoW, this gives new players ample opportunity to compete and do so playing the game the way they want to. The reason being, there are lots of ways to spend that gold such that the playingfield is kept quite level. Not every new player wants to run 200 mission blitzes @ 10m per nano for 1 piece of combined (or 1400 missions for a full set!). I don't think that makes for compelling gameplay - do you think a lot of new players will continue to subscribe if this is what they are faced with? Won't they just return to WoW which doesn't require players to do such onerous tasks to enjoy the economy? Simply completing daily quests or selling items from instances/trash mobs will allow you to compete just fine in WoW.

The economy is out of control because of Funcom's poor coding (the 5 separate credit exploits over the years) and a lack of creativity/resource to create credit generation methods and credit sinks in equal measure (or a determination to introduce the latter without the former - a misconception that many people fall into when trying to understand how to solve the problem, economics 101).

Well said - I was going to blast that guy but you did it nicer. There needs to be a good way for N00bs and even mature players like me that do not have a twinked 220 pocket to run as my alt gets the benefit to make money that does not involve a monotonous drone of repetitiveness and never ending grinds....

[ilengineeru]

If a new player is prepared to team to do content, is able to become reasonably skilled (which has its own challenges, unrelated to the economy), and is prepared to play one of the cheaper-to-gear professions as their first toon, they will not run into financial trouble.

A Doctor who gains their first billion in about two months will not lack for funds for the best endgame gear in the game, provided they are willing to do content, and will not buy lootrights for NoDrop items.

It is worth mention that a raiding city is now extremely cheap.

Pretending that laziness is a necessity is fallacious. Anarchy Online has one of the most complicated, confusing, and ill-explained-by-the-Game-Company RPG systems out there. One has to embrace mystery and complexity to keep being drawn to the game.

A new player is going to gimp their toon. They'll then either leave, or reroll to make a better toon the second-time around. I don't think anyone really approached AO with the mindset that they will make the best ganker this game has ever seen in the space of half a year.

Please lay out a guide on how to make 500 mill per month of playing as a n00b. I would like to see that. It is not a question of being lazy rather than a question of not knowing what to do or how to go about doing it......

[ilengineeru]

So let me get this straight: if I have 10b and I quit AO for 1 year (irl problems, bored, etc), when I return I will have around 2.8b
Welcome to my top 10 dumbest ideeas.

OMG that is beyond a doubt the #1 dumb ideeeeeaaa out of 10.

Jacking money randomly from everyone only hurts the players without much money. If you want to do that why not eliminate credits all together and go to a barter system where you trade NODROP sea shells or pebbles that you pick up from missions to an NPC character for Bronto hide AI armor......