Agent pvm-damage stagnates after tl5 and up

[Lazy]

Basically, any content that you would, out of purely altruistic motives, invite an Agent for could be done with the exact same team minus the Agent, and it would at most take you a few extra minutes.

confirmed: agents only get pity-invites

[Psikie]

Competitive players will evaluate profs in competitive situations. In a competitive situation there is no reason to invite an agent into an endgame team unless there is no other option, this is where you run into disagreement because you are a player who will invite people just to be nice, which isn't a bad thing.

I thank you for the complement, but it's not just for being nice. I've been a raidleader for well over 3 years and there have been many MANY times where there were missing profs or not enough of this or that prof to go around. Insert agents fp...doc/crat/advy/ma, trad or whatever buffs/CC I needed extra toons to cover. UBT- non kill team healing, extra heal pets at informant, roots- snares, refresh buffs on toons back from reclaim, or whatever. I have found a lot of uses for agents.

So it makes me scratch my head to hear all these "forum vet" players totally write off agents.

If what was meant by those posts is "220 endgame 3-4man teams there is no place for an agent" fine. But that same argument can be said about 8-10 other profs also. However that is not what has been said regardless of what they may have meant. You have been very clear and I don't disagree with anything major you have said but not all posters on these forums say what they mean or mean what they say.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I think everyone can agree that agents need a little bit of love... in PVM, and no love in PVP.

There's a lot of profs that are in this boat: need a bit of PVP/PVM love, but not necessarily the other one.

[Lazy]

If what was meant by those posts is "220 endgame 3-4man teams there is no place for an agent" fine. But that same argument can be said about 8-10 other profs also.

great. i'm glad we can all agree that agents need lovin, along with 8-10 other profs.

so now with that out of the way after 12 pages of nonsense how do you propse they can be buffed to a point where they ARE wanted for 220 endgame 3-4 man teams?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

great. i'm glad we can all agree that agents need lovin, along with 8-10 other profs.

so now with that out of the way after 12 pages of nonsense how do you propse they can be buffed to a point where they ARE wanted for 220 endgame 3-4 man teams?

Indeed... how?

and furthermore, how do you do it so they don't get super OP'd in PVP?

I think the obvious anwer is to add a nano called "clean slate" which drops the agent to the bottom of the hatelist (ie. not on the hatelist), and refreshes the perception check, so Agent can re-AS the same mob.

That will make them do a lot more damage on single mob encounters for starters.

Second thing has to be related to support. Because support is awesome.

Well, if clean slate wipes the hatelist... then CH could be used. but... not for the recharge on CH. So, probably just put clean slate on a separate CD and I'd say that would do it.

[Psikie]

I don't think any profs/players/teams should be able to do 3-4 man end game raid teams. More boosting would only compound the problem. I think AI was meant to boost pvm and LE was meant to boost pvp. Some brainiac didn't think that those boosts wouldn't impact each other.

But to "balance" out agents with current inflation, they would need a weapon equal to tigress 325-600 (600) instead of angst 300-500 (308), possibly reduce 1.6/1.6 to 1.2/1.2 also. Maybe have some "rifle" special attacks like bow special attack arrows/ma special attacks as a side thought.

[Lazy]

leave content balancing for a different thread. :P

the best i can come up with is a high crit, ,fast attack slow recharge weapon with numbers similar to greed that has fling/burst/as in addition to the new reworked AS that agents are getting

fixing the attack speed on some of those perks couldn't hurt. like for example this one with trololol 8s execution?

[Gatester]

today i learned that shades are support profs.

Before the damage patch I used my shade to debuff massive AAO and inits on mobs...now I just replace 3 professions instead.

[Psikie]

leave content balancing for a different thread. :P

the best i can come up with is a high crit, ,fast attack slow recharge weapon with numbers similar to greed that has fling/burst/as in addition to the new reworked AS that agents are getting

fixing the attack speed on some of those perks couldn't hurt. like for example this one with trololol 8s execution?

I disagree with burst, I think it would be too much IP strain on the nano intensive prof with AS/fling.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The trick is making agents spend IP on standard lines, that gives them enough oomph in PVP without swaps to SA/dimach.

@ lazy, any perk needing 5+ seconds to execute is WTF stupid - fully agree.

but.. you want high damage perks... but you DON'T want them on too fast an execution... so whats the balance?

[Contra]

At 220 you are correct, but 210 and below I've seen paid account agents do all 3 roles tank/heal/support competently. 211-220 there is a sharp up tick in capabilities that starts for all other proffessions that is a lot slower and lesser for agents.

Tank what? Inf mishes? Name me one end-game encounter where an agent can successfully tank it with CH spam.

I think everyone can agree that agents need a little bit of love... in PVM, and no love in PVP.

There's a lot of profs that are in this boat: need a bit of PVP/PVM love, but not necessarily the other one.

Why not in pvp too? Agents started using SA/dimach swaps BECAUSE they sucked in pvp.

great. i'm glad we can all agree that agents need lovin, along with 8-10 other profs.

so now with that out of the way after 12 pages of nonsense how do you propse they can be buffed to a point where they ARE wanted for 220 endgame 3-4 man teams?

A better rifle, reusable AS in pvm without the need to conceal, faster perks, better DD procs.

But to "balance" out agents with current inflation, they would need a weapon equal to tigress 325-600 (600) instead of angst 300-500 (308), possibly reduce 1.6/1.6 to 1.2/1.2 also..

Good ideea, but the crit bonus needs to be higher. 350-600(800) at 1.3/1.3

The trick is making agents spend IP on standard lines, that gives them enough oomph in PVP without swaps to SA/dimach.

@ lazy, any perk needing 5+ seconds to execute is WTF stupid - fully agree.

but.. you want high damage perks... but you DON'T want them on too fast an execution... so whats the balance?

My shade's "alpha" perks, Impale+Gore+Hecatomb are all very fast and do 2x more dmg then agent's top perks. The balance, here, is the agent's very gimp and outdated survival/escape toolset.

[Seoin]

Tank what? Inf mishes? Name me one end-game encounter where an agent can successfully tank it with CH spam.

Have seen an agent CH tank the top floor of gauntlet, where it was bugged with multiple bosses, with enfo big hp I'm pretty sure we had a doc too, CH was just to hold agg

[Contra]

i tanked all apfs on my NT. doesn't mean I'd let an NT tank it all the time
And that agent ended up tanking cause someone died or LDed on the way, most likely.
Anyway, fact is....agent pvm dmg is abysmal and a successfull pvp agent only reaches that state in melee swap setups and years of experience
I haven't logged on my 220 agent in 4 years for anything else then buffing other toons because what I can do on my agent in PvM(or pvp), I do it 5 times better on my NT or shade, or even 200 crat.
BTW, I can OD a 220 agent on my 200 crat in a inf mission if I have 2 vortexoids pets and have alot more survivability because of calms and provide alot more team support then an agent ever can.

[Mostadio]

My two cents, agents need weapons that actually take advantage of high crit.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

i tanked all apfs on my NT. doesn't mean I'd let an NT tank it all the time

??? really?
How do you do that?

My two cents, agents need weapons that actually take advantage of high crit.

/agree.

[Gatester]

??? really?
How do you do that?

NT's are actually very effective tanks cycling through NSII, NBG, and optic plague+dazzle+absorb spam, the damage also allows them to hold aggro over anyone but an enforcer and shade usually. NT's can solo LoTV (not easily mind you but the toolset allows it) which is a good example of their survival in def focused def setups, so include a healer and you greatly increase the survival and reduce the absorb spam downtimes.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

NT's are actually very effective tanks cycling through NSII, NBG, and optic plague+dazzle+absorb spam, the damage also allows them to hold aggro over anyone but an enforcer and shade usually. NT's can solo LoTV (not easily mind you but the toolset allows it) which is a good example of their survival in def focused def setups, so include a healer and you greatly increase the survival and reduce the absorb spam downtimes.

doesn't their HP mean that an inadvertant double hit could result in an untimely pox though?

I thought their best HP buff was a monumental 350max hp?


I want to try this. I've always felt NT's were just so damn squishy.

[Manicmouse]

I wonder what HP trox NT can get with some HP gear without losing much defence.

[MassDebater]

Remove perc check on AS in pvm.

Simple.

13/11s=71k dpm extra alone.

[sultryvoltron]

Remove perc check on AS in pvm.

Simple.

13/11s=71k dpm extra alone.

Srompu was already using "clever game mechanics" to use multiple AS. Still a low damage number.