Friday with Means - May 27th, 2011 - Screens

[Redesine]

there might be other arguments against BS changes that I'm unaware of,

You forget some big arguments against in this thread:

- With pet pathing problems, would it not be more universally beneficial to fix the pet rather than the path?

- Dynamic battles include use of terrain features. If a terrain feature is seen to be abused rather than utilised, then by all means rectify it. But it seems that rather than being rectified and tweaked, BS is being levelled.

- New content is great. Everyone wants to see more addition to AO. But does removing content really count as new content to be welcomed purely for the sake of it being at best a band-aid fix and at worst, just different?


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you also seem to assume that people who are providing negative feedback just want things to stay exactly how they are. That's quite a gross assumption when really the feedback is being directed towards the specifics of the changes rather than against change itself.

Personally I'd like to see changes that do make things more fun for all involved without simply levelling everything out to a flat playing field where terrain is not a factor in tactics. Surely there's some middle ground between terrain that can be abused and removing the terrain completely.

Hopefully choosing the spawn point will help. And being able to choose is certainly more tactical than being randomly spawned so that gets a tentative thumbs-up from me.

Blocking off areas, not so much.

[SoapTarder]

@Soap

It does look stupid.

then perhaps suggest visual improvements instead of pooing on it.

Smart people DO hide in those corridors that are being closed to remove/wait out debuffs. These professions don't have the toolset to remove them automatically, and they don't have the defensive toolset to stand and fight through them.

Like I just said, if its a toolset recharge problem, or an issue of balance, then you will have alot of ammunition in your argument for your proffession when it comes to rebalance going to test and then eventually to live servers (if it ever does).

It IS a population problem that those corridors are empty space. Go watch old BS videos on the RK1 or RK2 PvP Videos threads. Watch how many times they go into the corridors and have good one on one fights. Again, it IS a population problem. The space is only empty because there's not enough people to fill the typical spaces.

yes, and I've used the corridors to lure someone from a group away, to stomp them without them having backup. it's a lot of fun, even if you underestimate the one you've lured away.

by the looks of the pictures, those corridors are still there, but basically narrower and inescapable now if you got lured there. I would think that would make some people happier, not the opposite.

Low population effects every part of AO. trust me, I don't play much right now because I can't even put a team together for anything, even after begging on neutnet. my org is dead atm because of exams/minecraft (which i play too lol). I hear you, it sucks. BS even more so because its only fun when your side is winning. if your side sucks or is small, you get spawn camped, end of story. now imagine being able to use tactics with spawning to outsmart the stronger enemy, split them up and lure them into the now deadly looking corridors. because that's what they look like now; a death sentence to anyone that tries to use them for an escape, or to chase someone that they think is running.

[Tanana]

Can someone explain exactly what they've blocked off to me cause I'm still seeing space to run from core to A/B/C without using a teleport...or am I looking at screenie 7 wrong?

From what I see there you can still run off and hide being the teleport for a bit of respite, you just can't jump up and down from the lower/higher level ramp anymore and abuse LoS/Pet Pathing.

[Redesine]

by the looks of the pictures, those corridors are still there, but basically narrower and inescapable now if you got lured there.

Can someone explain exactly what they've blocked off to me cause I'm still seeing space to run from core to A/B/C without using a teleport...or am I looking at screenie 7 wrong?

Yeah, actually, some clarification from FC would be good. It does look like you can still run from core to wings but only on one height level.

What about inside the core? Have they just blocked jumping up and down? Will you still be able to run up the spiral to the balconies? Or have they just removed the spiral access completely beyond some point we can't see?

If you can still go onto the spiral then I'm happy with that. The big glass walls on the wings still seems like overkill to me, though.

EDIT: I got the impression from the lines on the map in screen 3 that the BS is now 4 completely separate areas that can't be accessed other than with teleporters. It'd be good to know if those "holes" in the glass walls run all the way to the outer arms from the core and vice versa.

[sultryvoltron]

Like I just said, if its a toolset recharge problem, or an issue of balance, then you will have alot of ammunition in your argument for your proffession when it comes to rebalance going to test and then eventually to live servers (if it ever does).

It's not a toolset problem.

If every profession has the power to fight through the debuffs of every other profession, then why have debuffs at all? Those corridors just give a good place to remove them out of fight. They are less traveled, but still provide awesome places to catch people off guard.

[Obtena]

Those places will still exist, they just have higher risk for encounter now. BS PVP isn't Borealis BY hopping and it shouldn't replicate it either. It's GOOD to have different kinds of PVP in a game and if BS is made into an encounter where there is a higher chance to PVP, then wow, call me stupid (more) but that's a GOOD thing.

BS shouldn't be regarded as a hunt... you hide in some corridor or spiral, I have to find you. That approach to PVP already exist in AO. And in addition to that, a winning strategy shouldn't favour such an approach like it can now. No, BS should be a place where you get rewarded for PVPing and PVPing better than the other team, not hiding or playing chase in the little used areas of BS.

[sultryvoltron]

No, BS should be a place where you get rewarded for PVPing and PVPing better than the other team, not hiding or playing chase in the little used areas of BS.

It's not the corridors that make us place chase, it's the kiters.

[Obtena]

So what? Removing them forces kiters to engage you more often. Are you one of these guys that thinks PVP is about kiting all over the place and disengaging?

[Obtena]

You don't even what? Realize that portal hopping is a red herring for why FC shouldn't block off corriders? OK thought so. Honestly, who cares about portal hopping? I know the answer to that ... people that PVP 1 vs. 1 and run around like a soloing hero in BS. L2PVP in BS (like I said, it's not Borealis BY hugging or duels) and you won't HAVE portal hoppers giving you problems.

"Constantly Catching Up" ... seems to be a good forum tag for you. You're obviously not keeping up with the current developments in AO and their implications for team PVP. Please do tell me how stupid my posts are more often though. It's only embarrassing you when people share the same view.

[Technogen]

Well obtena's right, if someone starts portal hopping, have 3 of your team members stay at 1 end the other 3 go though and chase the hopper back to the other 3, end game move on.

[sultryvoltron]

Well obtena's right, if someone starts portal hopping, have 3 of your team members stay at 1 end the other 3 go though and chase the hopper back to the other 3, end game move on.

I play during GMT -8 Pacific Standard Time primetime and night.

If we have 4 people on either side of the BS, we're lucky. Again, it's a population problem.

Also, there are more than one portal. Are you honestly trying to convince me that the best way to avoid people is to run back to where you were running from? That's retarded.

[Obtena]

Are you honestly trying to convince me that the best way to avoid people is to run back to where you were running from? That's retarded.

Dude, YOU are the one claiming that people will be doing more portal hopping, not Technogen. YOU are the one trying to convince people it's going to increase if they block off corriders as the best way to avoid people (and implicating yourself as retarded in the process). The retarded part is that you are still thinking of ways to avoid people in BS Blocking of lesser used sections of the BS should actually make low populated BS sessions BETTER, not worse. More encounters = more PVP.

[sultryvoltron]

Dude, YOU are the one claiming that people will be doing more portal hopping, not Technogen. YOU are the one trying to convince people it's going to increase if they block off corriders as the best way to avoid people (and being retarded in the process). The retarded part is that you are still thinking of ways to avoid people in BS. Blocking of lesser used sections of the BS should actually make low populated BS sessions BETTER, not worse. More encounters = more PVP.

Dude, YOU are the one who obviously doesn't PvP in this game. YOU are the one that doesn't know how much people ALREADY portal hop. YOU are the one that thinks it's a good idea to force the people that don't portal hop to portal hop or die.

Again, thank you for your opinion.

[Obtena]

Well, it's not my opinion, Im just reading what you are writing here. If my opinion is 'wrong' to you somehow, then it reflects on the fact you're knowingly writing lies and crap.

I don't have a problem with portal hoppers, because I don't need to kill portal hoppers to win BS and I don't need to portal hop to do whatever it is that portal hoppers think they accomplish doing it. Probably has alot to do with the fact that I don't run around like a solo idiot allowing myself to die from groups camping portals. What's funny is that if I'm not doing BS PVP like you claim, I sure as hell figured it out alot better than you do. Says alot about your abilities.

[Technogen]

I play during GMT -8 Pacific Standard Time primetime and night.

If we have 4 people on either side of the BS, we're lucky. Again, it's a population problem.

Yes, the population is low, that has nothing to do with the design of the content. They should not go back and change everything about the game because there is a low population.

Likewise they should not change new things to be fit for a low population, because they will just have to change it again when the population goes back up.

Also, there are more than one portal. Are you honestly trying to convince me that the best way to avoid people is to run back to where you were running from? That's retarded.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retreat

n.
1.
a. The act or process of withdrawing, especially from something hazardous, formidable, or unpleasant.
b. The process of going backward or receding from a position or condition gained.

[sultryvoltron]

Well, it's not my opinion, Im just reading what you are writing here. I don't have a problem with portal hoppers, because I don't need to kill portal hoppers to win BS and I don't need to portal hop to do whatever it is that portal hoppers think they accomplish doing it. Probably has alot to do with the fact that I don't run around like a solo idiot allowing myself to die from groups camping portals either. What funny is that if I'm not doing PVP like you claim, I sure as hell figured it out alot better than you do.

Ok, so I guess you get to tell me who I'm supposed to kill, and where I'm supposed to kill them. Cool, glad we got that cleared up.

Yes, the population is low, that has nothing to do with the design of the content. They should not go back and change everything about the game because there is a low population.

Likewise they should not change new things to be fit for a low population, because they will just have to change it again when the population goes back up.

Isn't that exactly what they're doing? Back after LE was released it was COMMONPLACE to see skirmishes in every corridor. Those spaces weren't empty back then.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retreat

n.
1.
a. The act or process of withdrawing, especially from something hazardous, formidable, or unpleasant.
b. The process of going backward or receding from a position or condition gained.

So if my teammates are supposed to ambush them at the portal they are going through, how did they get in front of them when they a) didn't know which way they were going, and b) have capped runspeed?

Try to be more consistent Tech.

[Obtena]

Ok, so I guess you get to tell me who I'm supposed to kill, and where I'm supposed to kill them. Cool, glad we got that cleared up.

I didn't say anything about who you have to kill or where. I do know that you don't need to specifically target and kill portal hoppers (or be one) to win BS. /shrug. If you know how to PVP in BS, you know how to deal with portal hoppers. The fact that you LET portal hoppers dictate how you PVP in BS is shows your lack of strategy, not some shortcoming of the game mechanics or geometry.

[sultryvoltron]

I do know that you don't need to specifically target and kill portal hoppers (or be one) to win BS.

Yep...

[Obtena]

Yep...

Oh, I see you have nothing to say now. Even had to add the "..." to make your message more than 3 characters long to allow it to be posted. That's sad and funny. It's clear your argument about portal tactics is not really getting you anywhere ay? Resorted to some guilt trip or insinuation that me playing and an enfo makes me biased? That's stupid and incredible irrelevant.

[sultryvoltron]

Oh, I see you have nothing to say now. Even had to add the "..." to make your message more than 3 characters long to allow it to be posted. That's sad and funny. It's clear your argument about portal tactics is not really getting you anywhere ay?

The point of the post... You missed it.