Quite a number, cause is still a limit. Proximity of a number
Quite a number, cause is still a limit. Proximity of a number
Trader meets Enforcer with Challenger and Rage already up.
Explain to me how trader stands a chance with the loss of CP and SS. The single divest? The one heal drain/nuke he gets off after? Oh sorry, you're already dead.
I'm all for the rebalance, but it absolutely blows my mind when such groundbreaking changes are made to professions when in all reality, a few profs just needed some love and a few profs needed a bit of a nerf. Maybe it prevents emo fits if everyone is changed dramatically so it's not quite as obvious who is getting nerfed. I don't disagree that traders needed adjustments, but when you leave certain profs nearly as powerful as they were pre-rebalance and nerf other ones down, it's just going to cause a larger trend towards the OP profs.
I absolutely can't wait to see what devs have in mind for MP's. I'm sure it's really going to have enforcers and advies running for the hills, though.
Last edited by Johnnykay; Jan 25th, 2011 at 01:07:08.
and enforcer crying 'Lol im so good at pvp'Originally Posted by Johnnykay
dush's my hero btw
Maybe we'll be granted of dof+limber
Last edited by Drakeep; Jan 25th, 2011 at 01:01:29.
A limit is a number. You can find the limit of any function, as long as the function converges to that number and the result is a number. Ask your calculus teacher.Quite a number, cause is still a limit. Proximity of a number
Last edited by Obtena; Jan 25th, 2011 at 18:06:14.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Stop right there because what you are trying to do is not relevant to how FC is balancing anything in this game.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
obtena, i dont think fc really wants 1 on 1 situations where 1 proffession got absolutly no chance, otherwise they could just skip the balancing
ähmm thinking about what i wrote ... balance can only be between 2 or more entities that are comparable somehow. To balance team pvp is absolulete, as team pvp is always balanced as long as you can compare the teams meanign, just invite the same proffessions in the teams ... if you want team pvp balanced with different proffessions in teams you once again have to balance proffession vs proffession as that is the only difference between those teams then.
to make clear what i just said in the most complicated manner possible *duck
when a trader gets weaker in 1 on 1 pvp, he gets also weaker in team pvp. If trader debuffs dont protect a trader they wont do a much better job on others. In other words rather take the enfo he is easier to keep alive and killing someone in under 15 sec is always better than debuffing him for 15 sec.
Last edited by Larafina; Jan 25th, 2011 at 02:40:24.
maybe, maybe not, but I can assure you, any argument that starts with "Prof X vs. Prof Y" thing isn't going to get you anywhere. Re-balance isn't about duelingobtena, i dont think fc really wants 1 on 1 situations where 1 proffession got absolutly no chance, otherwise they could just skip the balancing
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
My conspiracy theory says „balancing” has nothing to do with balancing. Its more about making things less annoying so once new engine hits life and we in fact may see some new people they wont be driven away by annoying things, not op things. When I think about whats overpowered in this game I think about advys in general, enfs with their silly nr values and alphas, acrobat perk line etc. so far we have not a single word of those things getting nerfed. In fact there are pretty much no changes at all to professions like docs, mas, enfs and solds. A bit higher nano cost here and there and tms split into two parts for solds. That’s all.
Now when I thinks about whats annoying here I see drains at first place and those are nerfed into oblivion, than crowd control tools that are also heavily nerfed wont be spammable. Are snares overpowered? They are not but for a noob that doesn’t even know what free movement is 20+ minute snare is a nightmare.
There is also a strange coincidence that professions that are cores of any team (doc and enf) and esymode dd / soloer - wannabes (ma, sold and most likely advy later on) so professions that are primary choice of 95% newcomers remain almost unchanged (docs even get a lots of dd love) while supporters like traders and engis (professions that aint usually chosen by newcomers and are way less common at endgame) that were the very bottom of pvm anyway are pretty much f….ed.
*puts tinfoil hat on*
Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.
I actually had a different conspiracy theory. I think rebalancing is a pipe dream. Ever since they started releasing nano document changes that represent about ... 1.5 hours worth of thoughtfulness put into them and some basic value switching, I've thought that rebalance was a myth designed to distract us. In fact, the subsequent delays on things that honestly shouldn't take that much time to think on make the problem worse by baiting us along. Combine that with the move to the Canada office...
I think the FC staff has probably been reallocated to a different game, and there are maybe one or two employees that still crank out a nano sheet on their lunch break to give the illusion of rebalancing, while we all slowly wait for the game to die.
Well, thats actually a good theory and i was following it myself but since i dont play anymore nor do most of the people i know (except during free months) I had to give it up as imho AO is already at the point where there is no economic reason to keep it working other than really expecting it to have some new people in the future.
Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.
That very insightful. It's more accurate to say it's a fix, not a balance. When people hear balance, they think equal and make up their own interpretation and come to the conclusion that FC is doing it wrong. That's a poor assumption on their part. Now that we have almost all the nano docs and some perks info, it's pretty obvious what's happening.
No, this isn't a 'balance' so that every prof can kill and survive against every other prof because if you think about it, that would be alot of nonsense. There are conspiracy theory? They would be just that ... theories. Not likely for a publicly traded company.
Last edited by Obtena; Jan 25th, 2011 at 15:40:13.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
I've had both of these thoughts... my guess is that the reality lay somewhere in the middle.
Proud Member of Paradise
I'm almost surprised that the Enf pro has no problem at all that Enforcers are still going to be able to steamroll the **** out of several support profs. I sometimes wish you were the MP/Trader/Crat pro rather than the Enf Pro to see if your tune would change. Given you're the biggest FC fanboy on these forums it probably wouldn't.
If we want to go by your "Balance isn't about duels, it's about mass pvp" then we could say the game is fairly balanced right now. Throw an eng and a doc in both teams and who cares what other profs are. It's balanced, right? Hell maybe the one team has a trader so he's able to drain the hell out of one doc, but a MP is in the other team so he can try to keep NSD running on the other doc. In that sense everything in AO is currently balanced. It's pretty damn difficult to suggest that currently when you take X team slots and fill them with random profs, the higher the number of team slots the more balanced this game is. I just wish you and others would stop clinging to the "Balance is about team pvp." That's not balance at all. It's pretty damn impossible for it to NOT be balanced no matter how overpowered some profs are if you simply look at the problem in a team situation.
Bottom line, I'm not asking for it to be a stalemate between prof X and Y with identical balance. I'm asking for 2 equally geared professions to at least have a CHANCE against the other. But you can keep going ahead with your "Balance isn't about duels" and laugh as your Enf destroyed support profs because at least "In team terms, everything is balanced." I just figured the goal of this rebalance was to bring the OP professions and the professions that have been stomped on for years closer to the middle. For some profs that's happened. For other profs, it hasn't at all.
Finally, clinging to, "<Name> did great well before BR/GTH/etc" is a terrible argument to make. It completely ignores game trends that have forgotten certain profs over the years. Or are Keepers really as well off now as they were when SL came out? Or are MP's as insane as they were when LE first came out?
Last edited by Johnnykay; Jan 25th, 2011 at 16:46:48.
I have no problem with it because I don't actually know that will be true and it's not relevant anyways. Balance isn't about mass PVP either. It's about fixing tools for PVP and PVM, all levels. Again, if you haven't noticed, all the nano documents have a theme ... TEAM based tools. Teaming is what is going to help support professions from being steamrolled, if that in fact, is the case.
Last edited by Obtena; Jan 25th, 2011 at 18:08:45.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Oh what a beautifull world. Unfortunately streamroller profs never team with anyone, who cares 'lol im so good at pvp, lemme camp support profs at their spawn camp, lollol'.
So if fc is trying to made traders teaming with other support prof this will be an uber fail. What will be the benefit of having a trader in team?
Better skills? (lol)
Better crits? (lollol)
AC Drains? (yeah AC is a big factor in pvp,lolmao)
The reality is that, there will be another squishy ass to keep alive. So better he'll die alone.
Traders aren't the 'Rambo' profession that everyone thinks, they are dangerous if they jump on you unexpected, the false myths that drains lands so easily
and that once you are drained from Divest Skills, you are gameover, aren't real.
There are tl5 soldiers that continue to hotswap weapons with BOTH nanite drains running. Enforcers that perks you even if divested
(and landing both drains on enforcer isn't that easy). NTs that are barely unaffected from divests.
Clearly if u think to uberly spawncamp cause you are a lubchild, even in pure pvm setup, that's another story, and u shouldn't be able to do so.
I remeber an advie that was complaining cause traders totally pwn him, i told him why he didn't perk nr1 ( a quite bright option for a class, that
have no hostile nanos to lands), he said 'lol but i wont cast top healing nanos anymore', i did some calculations with him, and we ended that using
a nanocontroller unit, he was able to still cast decent heals. He ended like this 'Ok,im to lazy to build a nanocontroller unit, and i'll have to
give up with some damage buffs, or to hotswap damage hud for nanocontroller, too complicated'.
Are these the uber PVPers that inspired the trader nano changes document? or have been the MA that opened an uberemo thread about traders, just
cause he was doing bs in full offensive mode?
I still have the bad feeling that the low number of traders and the high number of enfos/ma/advies, inspired this document, it's more easy
solving the trader problem, shutting down the profession, rather than risk lubchilds in pvm setup QQ dued to their low pvp performances.
Checking at numbers on auno i'm sure NTs will be the next.
If you can't see this yourself, there is no point in having this discussion with you. I will give you ONE hint for free to show you how being sensational does not make you right or impress anyone.
Have you seen the general increase in nanocosts for everyone? What profs give a whole team nano? What profs take nano away from others? No profession controls nano, one of the most necessary and soon to be scarce resources, like a trader will be able to. If THAT isn't reason enough to team and PROTECT your trader in PVP, what can I say ... that's just stupid PVP fail. Just like docs heal your HP and are desireable in team, so too will traders for nano. It's not a stretch of the imagination either. Just READ the nano document.
You seem fixated on this 'steamroller' prof idea. It's funny considering they too are just as significantly affected by all the changes being made in the game, including nanocosts, team tools, etc... . Your prediction they won't need to team to be successful in PVP is as comical as you questioning the benefits teaming a trader will be.
Last edited by Obtena; Jan 25th, 2011 at 20:48:36.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
The number of traders that will be active after this toilet paper made document will go live, will answers to all questions.
Trying to defend it is quite pointless imho.
The nerf that i saw on other profs, dosen't justify the nerf trader are gonna face. This is simply shown but answers you are giving to questions like that
Answers like yours are the ones that u will use when somone asks 'what's ur name?' and ur name is Ruffian.
Last edited by Drakeep; Jan 25th, 2011 at 21:01:34.
You're right. I don't need to defend it. When people realize the difference between having and not having nano is going to make or break most professions for PVP, it will be as obvious as a kick in the balls how valuable traders will be for a team and in PVP.
Awwww muffin, need a tissue?
Oh yeah, in the meanwhile i look for a new profession to roll.
Have fun
I don't know about a profession with 1800 runspeed being a "steamroller" lol. I think you only need like 2 casts of the nano point drain to prevent an enforcer from raging too, but ofc we don't know what will happen to NR and if it will be a more reliable defense or not either.
Although in a more appropriate way to expand on this I will inquire into the basis of your statement.
What will allow an enforcer to "steamroll" a trader post-balancing according to what we know at this time, and what prevents a trader from surviving an encounter with an enforcer post-balancing? I think it is a fair question, and if you can make a valid point then I really have no way of disagreeing with you. If your statement is unfounded, however, then your statement is false and therefore should be disregarded.
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