Evades and Fixer Love

[Vitalis]

Fix it pls.

Cant be that a 170 Fixer with full CSS get normal hits from 150 if dof+limber up(before attacking). its time to recognize that fixers was supposed to be the fastest of all. Now? All other are nearly fast as us(with the same GSF Buff we could use self, the SL one in that lvl range are slower, dont stack anymore with gsf, so no option), Enfs can outrun and kill us like nothing. We cant stop em, our snare/roots ncu are not high enough that rage can cancel it.

Evades btw is a messy thing in mass pvp. I need to run it all the time if they are ready, cause if someone see me first and i start activating the def perks its to late. And this is the only def we have. No coon, no active heals, (hot is mostly useful if u can outrun the enemy, and the incoming damage nowadays in mass pvp is to much that the hots are enough to deal with it).


Our AR is mostly crap, and the pvp weapon setup too. I can sometimes kill greenies, but thats it.

The rarely good stuff like NCU Crash must be programmed after a drunken night. 200% NR, what should we do with stuff like that?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

You have to keep in mind when trying to figure out what exactly evades are doing theres two major factors:


1. AR/(AR+evades) which is your AR/(your AR+targets evades) then directly related to a slightly curved or linear slope, something like if x=AR/(AR+evades)
then the line would be in the format of y=mx+b, where m and b are the slope of the line and b is the y intercept. If you look at Ebags nano AR vs NR charts, they are exactly the same. Now, m may not be likely to change but b certainly does WITH the def-agg slider. Here are some hypothetical values if we assume that an AR/(AR+Evades) ratio of 0.9999 =99% to hit, and an AR/(AR+Evades) of 0.0001=1%

The problem is is that the forumla is highly inaccurate at the far extremes, and, because interpolation (which is necessary) between two inaccurate points will result in inaccurate assumptions. therefore, the only way to test it is through statistical or empirical means.

If this is any indication, however, one could reasonably assume that the percentage to hit is likened to some relationship between the two. I'd assume the relationship to be similar to Ebags results, which would mean that, around the "normal" range, that you could expect results like the following:

If your target has 1800 AR and you have 2300 evades, then the chance to hit, IF this formula is remotely accurate is about 1800/(1800+2300) = 44% where it's likely to be less (maybe 40% at full def), and slightly higher at full agg, (maybe 50%)

1.a. There is definitly going to be some conjecture about all this, but it might be worth considering that this formula works nearly perfectly for Ebags studies.


2. The second point is If Evades>AR perk check, perks won't land. period.

[Eralius2]

So According to Mc, we do indeed have a nearly direct relationship of AR and Evades but i think it shouldnt be so and i'll tell you why.

Say the relationship takes the opponent to 50% chance to hit agaisnt the opponent, missing a shot doesnt have such a negative impact than the other player getting hit - what im tryin to say is that 50% chance of being hit doesn't mean an equal balance of evades/ar. The AR reliant target isn't as negatively affected by missing as the Defense reliant target is by getting hit, the only way for the two to be balanced is if the both have the same AR+Defense relationship versus each other.

Am i right in thinking this?

And @ Point 2. Its commonly believed perks check AAD only no? So evades wouldnt play a part in this. Unless there is a study countering that thought.

[Hacre]

And @ Point 2. Its commonly believed perks check AAD only no? So evades wouldnt play a part in this. Unless there is a study countering that thought.

This is completely wrong.

[PingBong]

Cant be that a 170 Fixer with full CSS get normal hits from 150 if dof+limber up(before attacking).

So how do you expect ever being killed? AS/SA alone will never kill a half decent fixer alone and no there isnt a nt hiding behind every atrox so basically what ur asking for is an immunity from atleast 3 quarters of all profs while even one is too many

[Hacre]

So how do you expect ever being killed? AS/SA alone will never kill a half decent fixer alone and no there isnt a nt hiding behind every atrox so basically what ur asking for is an immunity from atleast 3 quarters of all profs while even one is too many

Has anyone else noticed that since BS turned into carebear central, with no rebuffing and no rez shock, this generation of PvPers whine even more and it all centres around the fact that no one seems to think they should die at all anymore?

[Eralius2]

This is completely wrong.

Correct me please
Im here to learn, simply saying "This is completely wrong" isnt useful or productive at all.

[Xenotric]

Perks will only check AAD only if their defense skill is listed as something like "DMS" (defense modifier skill)

Otherwise its currently the defense skill listed + AAD

and after balance it wont be added to and with defense skill listed as nano resist (that will just be the pure nano resist value)

[Vitalis]

MR Stabby

i dont expect to be immortal. But the incoming hits if all def perks up are 2 much. And as Fixer the def is my life insurance.
There should be a level check if player 1 attack player 2. The same some nanos have. Cant be that a lvl 150 player can hit through all defense vs a 170 player top equipped.

Another example:
Few days ago in BS a fight vs an Agent in FP Fixer. He was same lvl as me. I have def perks as real fixer he not. My Perks was up and what do u think who won?

[Hacre]

Another example:
Few days ago in BS a fight vs an Agent in FP Fixer. He was same lvl as me. I have def perks as real fixer he not. My Perks was up and what do u think who won?

The guy packing an 11s doesn't miss Aimed Shot that's getting nerfed soon?

[Louderer789]

Soon™

Fixers aren't melee, they won't be interrupting the new AS, and not knowing what defcheck - if any in actuality - it will be getting, it's a bit early to start implying fixers will be getting a huge defensive boost.

[Xenotric]

Soon™

Fixers aren't melee, they won't be interrupting the new AS, and not knowing what defcheck - if any in actuality - it will be getting, it's a bit early to start implying fixers will be getting a huge defensive boost.

From my understanding from posts by means and the FC crew, the curretn AS will get the 3 seconds interuptable charge time but remain defense checkless, while certain professions (agents are the only ones I've seen clear statement about this for) will get a secondary aimed shot skill, akin to the backstab shades and advys get by raising their sneak skill, that is instant but has a 100% dodge defense check on it, although im sure the defense check will be changed a few times before its live, this will lock both aimed shots but will give an instant alternative to the master of aimed shots.

So fixers dont really gain anything apart from a 3 second gap (hopefully with some sort of animation to it) to pull up some sort of non evade defense (if we have any, NM fixers currently about only ones who do)

[PingBong]

MR Stabby

i dont expect to be immortal. But the incoming hits if all def perks up are 2 much. And as Fixer the def is my life insurance.

So u dont wanna be immortal but expect not to take damage at the same time? Sorry i dont think u can die of old age in ao...

There should be a level check if player 1 attack player 2. The same some nanos have. Cant be that a lvl 150 player can hit through all defense vs a 170 player top equipped.

From the sounds of it ur way far from "top equipped", having css doesent make u a twink nor does it make u play good. Also why are u expecting to autowin vs lower lvl ppl? The difference between 150 and 170 is rather small when it comes to core skills and standard builds given that they both can utilize mostly the same nanos, their symb/armor QLs arent too different and skills titlecap at around 155-160. And if u havent noticed there IS a lvl check in ao pvp - the one that determines wether u can or cant attack ur target and its designed to allow combat between levels that can be concidered competitive (175-220 excluding)

[Vitalis]

So u dont wanna be immortal but expect not to take damage at the same time? Sorry i dont think u can die of old age in ao...

There is a difference between hitted as example 7 of 10 times to maybe 6,5,4,3,2 or 1 of 10 times with specials, normals and so on, right? Fine!

[Berinda]

What people always seem to forget in threads like this is, regardless of how good of a player you are, regardless of your equipment, in PvP you're going to die and you're supposed to die. Balance means not only being able to defend yourself and kill others, it also means other people can kill you - everyone you fight in PvP is a real person, not a bot to be abused in a first person shooter, and everyone deserves the ability to compete. Extreme twinks aside, the mark of a balanced game is one where everyone has the same base chance of beating someone else.

As the balancing thing moves forward, I do agree fixers should be hard to hit. I don't agree they should be unhittable.

[PingBong]

There is a difference between hitted as example 7 of 10 times to maybe 6,5,4,3,2 or 1 of 10 times with specials, normals and so on, right? Fine!

so maybe start there? coz u wrote this thread about geting hit alltogether

[sultryvoltron]

From my understanding from posts by means and the FC crew, the curretn AS will get the 3 seconds interuptable charge time but remain defense checkless, while certain professions (agents are the only ones I've seen clear statement about this for) will get a secondary aimed shot skill, akin to the backstab shades and advys get by raising their sneak skill, that is instant but has a 100% dodge defense check on it, although im sure the defense check will be changed a few times before its live, this will lock both aimed shots but will give an instant alternative to the master of aimed shots.

So fixers dont really gain anything apart from a 3 second gap (hopefully with some sort of animation to it) to pull up some sort of non evade defense (if we have any, NM fixers currently about only ones who do)

Both you and I know that Advys will be getting that secondary Aimed Shot too.

[Xenotric]

Both you and I know that Advys will be getting that secondary Aimed Shot too.

Im working on the basis that if I dont think about it it wont happen, Im even thinking of moving onto holding my hands over my ears and going NAH NAH NAH NAH untill it goes away :P