Even out keepers evades

[Moonbolt]

urghh i made a post about enf AR w/o checking but then i got insecure if i remembered right or not so deleted it.

[haavarst]

urghh i made a post about enf AR w/o checking but then i got insecure if i remembered right or not so deleted it.

ah kk, well when I duel a enf I always go full evade close loosing a lot of AR.. and with procs running you need ~3,8-4k+ AR to perk a good keeper.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

ah kk, well when I duel a enf I always go full evade close loosing a lot of AR.. and with procs running you need ~3,8-4k+ AR to perk a good keeper.

Or Flower of life :P

umm, GRR.

[Moonbolt]

well i know that with procs running i usually have around 3500 AR.. i could swap around some items to get closer to 3700 but im usually to lazy and i dont realy care about duels.

[haavarst]

well i know that with procs running i usually have around 3500 AR.. i could swap around some items to get closer to 3700 but im usually to lazy and i dont realy care about duels.

Looks like Kingstaah already did the math for us over at fixer forum, Thank you

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...1&postcount=27

But as he says, its very unlikely.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

thats a pretty uber post kinksta did.

anytime you have 6K + AR being mentioned in a thread and how to get there, you know it's good times.

[Kinkstaah]

To humour you, lets take your list.

The only Enforcers that struggle to perk Keepers are 2he Enforcers, you're not one of them. Keepers can perk Enforcers and Enforcers will not die unless there's multiple opponents. Between perk recharges, Enforcers can easily outheal that alpha.

Perking a keeper isn't possible in a hybrid setup save for Devastating Blow, which is one perk. Out of 20 perk points. A 2he enf would probably do better as they would have additional perks in survivability, and less in perks that do no damage.

Keeper can ofc, perk an enforcer, and the difference in evades makes the Keeper last a fair bit longer than an enf head to head (at least in my experience). It "feels" a lot like fighting an enf that you cant perk and who can perk you, which REALLY ends badly.

MAs. MAs in the right setup are no longer perkable to Keepers without insight if they're just standing there, flagged, with no perks running. Bring Limber into the equation, which in a fight is the lowest buff they're going to have to their evades, forget it.

But Keepers could never perk MA's. Though I concede a MA that can outheal a keeper is likely going to win. I never said Keepers > MA, but I have a better chance of killing a MA than a Keeper on my enforcer. Largely due to SA+Dimach+Dev Blow and catching them offguard, not doable vs a keeper. (due to HP, bio, etc)

Melee Adventurers have too much HP for a Keeper to trouble. Keepers haven't troubled Adventurers since the Edged Mastery perks were unchained from Limber/DoF.

Yeah but I wouldnt think melee adventurers have gained a ton of kill power vs a keeper. These fights always went for eons. However, an ADVY from my perspective can be killed in similar fashion to a MA, once every 30 minutes, maybe.

Shades can be unperkable against a Keeper while the Shade spams Defeat Righteousness. Once that's done, drain perks and dead Keeper. Keeper NR is nowhere near high enough that a Shade will empty their nanopool or even have stance run out before it lands.

Shades can perk Keepers? If I cant as an enforcer, how is a shade perking a keeper? Really? I would think a keeper with MR vs a shade would be an absolute LOLFEST as a shade couldnt perk keeper, and keeper could easily outlast and/or lay the hammer down.

MR would also assist vs MA as a keeper, but yeah, I know it isnt a keeper perk.

These are mainly the reasons behind me rather coming up vs a Shade/Adv/MA than a Keeper, but the truth is any of the classes mentioned above should be able to handle an enfo in a no-rules situation unless I employ some kiting/running/los/running off when they fire their perks/etc, but Keepers you cant take by surprise/alphakill/do a dodgy and kite their survivability etc, so they are a real tough matchup for me, but there arent too many of them at least.

[NoGoal]

Perking a keeper isn't possible in a hybrid setup save for Devastating Blow, which is one perk. Out of 20 perk points. A 2he enf would probably do better as they would have additional perks in survivability, and less in perks that do no damage.

Enfo can absorb keeper perks with cocoon. They have roughly same timers. And enfo can outheal the rest with layers and imongo. Don't even need CH/FoT trained. Reaver is changed now tho with a faster recharge but damage was nerfed as well. We'll probably end up as a draw now unless enfo has MR.

This is true. We went from weak to ranged to having no hope to ranged. This was largely the fault of the absorb nerf.

nah it's due to soldiers having sky high AR and all the new good AS weapons added with LE. With mixed damage types removed now, FC should rollback layers changes.

[NoGoal]

MR would also assist vs MA as a keeper, but yeah, I know it isnt a keeper perk.

Can't perk a MA even with MR due to CiB and you'll probably be dead before MR is available again.

[Kinkstaah]

Enfo can absorb keeper perks with cocoon. They have roughly same timers. And enfo can outheal the rest with layers and imongo. Don't even need CH/FoT trained. Reaver is changed now tho with a faster recharge but damage was nerfed as well. We'll probably end up as a draw now unless enfo has MR.

Please advise how a 2he enfo will ever kill another enfo then, because somehow they manage to do this to me, so "Easily outhealing it" doesnt happen in the real world, so I guess I /fail at chaining layers (instacast on full def), and keeping mongo hot going after learning how to do it in 2001.

I can see how a MA will kill a keeper, I said that. But I said I have a better chance vs a MA (which isnt much of a chance at all) vs a Keeper, for reasons I detailed above.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

the reality is that MA/keepers both get wtfpwned by enforcers, 90% of the time.

at least when I play they do.

I have beat good enf's on my MA, but I've never beat a decent enf on my keeper.

[haavarst]

Sorry for changing the subject here to keeper vs enf thread. Stick to topic now please We can discuss the keep/enf thing inn prof forums

So.. only me that thinks keepers ranged defence is off balance? And getting more and more out of balance inn every booster.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Sorry for changing the subject here to keeper vs enf thread. Stick to topic now please We can discuss the keep/enf thing inn prof forums

So.. only me that thinks keepers ranged defence is off balance? And getting more and more out of balance inn every booster.

no, I agree totally. I've posted explicity elsewhere that our ranged defence has been substnatially weakened by lost of wit.

I've admitted that this loss isn't a fout of genome balancing however, and had to admit that it was in fact either a faulty design (which we know it isn't, it's just that we're supposed to be weak) or the way keepers were meant to be.

The problem though, is that against ranged we're more than weak, we're utterly useless. AS is brutal against us, and FA will almost always cap. Meaning we've literally got no good defences, coon aat best, but, at TL5 there are no perks for coon, so i'm screwed there.

I'd like to see some more dodge range though, in general. Considering the retarded AR solds have.... esp.

[Kinkstaah]

Sorry for changing the subject here to keeper vs enf thread. Stick to topic now please We can discuss the keep/enf thing inn prof forums

So.. only me that thinks keepers ranged defence is off balance? And getting more and more out of balance inn every booster.

No, if enf def is "OK" or borederline OP (how?) then Enf def + 400 vs dodge surely can't be as bad as this thread makes out.

Evades should always *mitigate* damage, not flat out result in ignoring it.

[Gwenhwyfer]

Evades should always *mitigate* damage, not flat out result in ignoring it.

Isnt that what ACs are supposed to do?

[NoGoal]

Please advise how a 2he enfo will ever kill another enfo then, because somehow they manage to do this to me, so "Easily outhealing it" doesnt happen in the real world, so I guess I /fail at chaining layers (instacast on full def), and keeping mongo hot going after learning how to do it in 2001.

Just check what enfos have over keepers. Higher damage shield, more DD perks, init debuffs and stuns.

[NoGoal]

No, if enf def is "OK" or borederline OP (how?) then Enf def + 400 vs dodge surely can't be as bad as this thread makes out.

Evades should always *mitigate* damage, not flat out result in ignoring it.

Anyone saying enfo def is borderline must work on his AR. Read my previous posts about that 400 more dodge.

[Kinkstaah]

Just check what enfos have over keepers. Higher damage shield, more DD perks, init debuffs and stuns.

None of which means anything when it comes to killing another enf directly, lol.
And +400 dodge would be pretty noticably nice vs ranged on an enforcer. Perma old wit anyone?

[Gwenhwyfer]

Ill voice my own opinion about this. I can't say where keepers stand today because I no longer play her (there are so many more professions that are simply better in pvp), but they certainly weren't doing fine when I still played mine.

Our evade close used to be brilliant, but it's hardly that anymore.
Even dodge ranged was decent at some point and there was even the possibility of making a dodge setup and still do "ok" in pvp.

The last time I pvped on my keeper, soldiers killed me pretty easy. Full auto and burst + perks hurt a lot and with their insane ar, regular hits will eventually wear me down anyway. Cocoon wont help much since damage types are mostly projectile. Agents were just as difficult because they could land their snare + stun + DD perks on me easy. Fixers nibbled on my health bit by bit, kiting at the same time, eventually killing me without much difficulty.

MAs and melee advies used to be tight fights. Now you can just forget about it. I dont even want to think what ranged advies are like.

Actually the only profession I'm not that worried about is an NT. If I'm antiroot perked, they are killable. I guess evades aren't needed here

Keepers definitely need some boost to their defences. Being melee is already a huge disadvantage (not to mention with absolutely crappy runspeed), but when someone eats half your health before you even get in range, it's just not funny anymore.

[haavarst]

None of which means anything when it comes to killing another enf directly, lol.
And +400 dodge would be pretty noticably nice vs ranged on an enforcer. Perma old wit anyone?

Same for us, but we could manage with +2-300 dodge spread out to our buffs and procs. But dont forget Enforcers have perks that are insane compared to us and combined with MR you can chain stun us to death easy. Had a finght against a good solitus enf around TG, but that with an older setup. It seemed even but he was just waiting for my coon and BR was used and HP at 50% before he used the good perks. He had no problem healing up all my dd and perks with a little kiting.