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Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress
Lets nerf GTH and borrow reflect while we're at it!
Frobius -220 Omni Soldier, Chocolate Milkman and layabout. Fro's Shiznit
Schwad - 220 Omni Doc (ph34r t3h 4fr0!) Schwad's Shiznit
Drunknmunky - Some random MP..
Beeyatch - Mongo!!!
General of Hells Heroes - Pwning for phatz!
The infinite is possible at Zombo Com!!!
Omgz! l33t!
I'm glad to see that people are trying to improve the end content of game. I think stun procs were over powered. True nerfing of their time duration and landing ease would have been a great addition to the game: However turning the stun procs into a root is a sloppy fix.
I have to keep reminding myself that at some mysterious time in the future other 'quick fixes' will sort things. (ussually involving hours and hours of waiting on LFT for a team that may or may not form) I have a lot of pity for the people who will no doubt feel cheated for all the time and creds they've put into their crats.
I'm just glad my crat is not my main 220 toon. As it is I do feel cheated out of a lot of time and effort I put into building a toon to help my org accomplish smaller raids as the player base in game has shrunk, As well as trying to build a pvp toon to try and help stop the massive zerg forces we face daily on bs if you are on clan side.
I've played anarchy enough years I'm not going to let this make me quit the game. But I can't help but feel like crats have been pretty short changed in this.
I can agree that removing/nerfing stun procs was a necessary step, but it raises 2 big problems in my mind.
1) makes pistol a lot less attractive. Bow crats will probably remain popular as things are now.
2) hurts crat defense (and pvp offense against healers) significantly
Simply giving crat pets better AR and damage doesn't solve either problem.
Perhaps a combined tape with -1200 inits and a new nuke with a faster recharge (to get some more hits in during the +nanodmg proc) for pistol users only? Also, if pets are supposed to become a reliable part of crat offense in pvp, I think they could use either a big bump to NR or some % resists to things like ubt so they get disabled less frequently. No amount of unremovable roots are going to make rooted/snared/calmed/ubted/drained pets overcome the AS from a Tiger.
Edit: just saw the new AS pistol nerfs. That + stun procs removed? Tiger crats no longer have to worry about farming the stuff to switch pistol, lol.
One alternative they could consider is moving all procs into the nano lines they belong to. If procs were removable and resistable they wouldn't be an issue in pvp or pvm.
I rolled well well before stun procs, I rolled when our toolkit half worked before the ridiculous amounts of NR added and the innate resistances to our toolkit. We are an enigma to the devs and what irritates me is their complete lack of vision when putting the things in in the first place.
Stuns put in and stacking, stun stacking removed, stun duration threatened to be shortened, stuns finally turned into roots. AoE fears developed, AoE fears presented to the community and enough professionals whining they got nerfed. Single fears put in, single fears limited to BS. Player charms developed, player charms presented to the community, player charms removed and used only on the 12m instance instead. AS pistol developed, AS pistol hits testlive... AS pistol removed.
See where I am going here, promises, half implemented, finally nerfed... every single fix to the crat profs has never lasted more than 2 patches. 70% of the devs time at the minute seems to be repairing past mistakes and yes that has stopped them fixing our toolkits.
If you are naive enough to believe that any future fixes will be made that will last beyond the QQ then you are letting yourself in for a few disappointments. I would put money on the fact that the 200% nano damage proc won't last when your AS crats are capping AS, capping nuke, capping another AS and the fight is over in 11 seconds... Without pets.
Now if stuns are so OP, remove them from everyone. We only had what troxes had and I am not understanding why it is OP for me but not OP for someone with a bone breaking alpha.
If our toolkit is OP then it isn't stuns that caused it, it is Aimed Shot. Please put a profession != bureaucrat on all Aimed Shot weapons, that will ssolve the problem without removing stuns. Aimed Shot + Perks + Nukes + Pets = OP. Screwing around with stuns is a nice simple fix that kept most professions + the PvP crats happy. Nice easy to implement fix that cuts down on the incessant whining.
I couldnt give a toss about stuns to be honest, they never really helped me. What concerns me is the half baked ideas that don't work and now it has been months since Means promised us something, which never materialised.
So forgive my cynicism but this is what, the 2nd FWM in 3 weeks dedicated purely to crats, someone had a bad experience with a crat once I think.
Also, everyone that is supporting the work done at FC this week which according to this FWM was purely nerfing crats, apparently nothing else happened, think on this. Was crat stuns THE most important problem in game? A good use of resource?
I personally cannot wait to see which half baked ill thought through 'fix' is next.
Stun procs changed to roots...mmkay I can live with that. Changing a 15s stun to an 8s root, on presumably the same land rate is pretty big nerf though. If the durations stay at 8s and 5s, then the landing percentage of them should go up. If the landing percentage stays the same, the durations of the roots should stay like the old stun procs at 10s and 15s.
So we will soon have 3 root procs, single at 5s, single at 8s, and aoe at 8s (soon to be nerfed from 15s).
Now change GTH to 10-20 seconds, 1 minute NSD's used to have a 160% NR check, decent recharge, and have removal perks...
Last edited by Mountaingoat; Jun 6th, 2009 at 16:44:35.
Yes, i just dont believe it, also i would appreciate the fix coming at the same time as the nerf, not being promised 'soon' (tm). I Also dont read any words about making pets hold aggro better thus actually enabling us to use the new improved nuke in a non-raid pvm situation (assuming it hasnt been nerfed by the time these alleged pet improvments actually appear (assuming they ever do)).
Last edited by Neista; Jun 6th, 2009 at 16:56:57.
ALTS: Alienhunter, Moonglum, Quellist, Quellcrist, Jesharet
Most stuns aren't over powered though because they have a very short duration, normally 4 seconds at most, and can be removed, on top of that the nano based stuns have twice the recharge of the stun duration, so the choice to use them or not is an important one, finally most nano based stuns have 110-160% NR check on them, making them rather easy to resist in most cases, still leaving the caster locked in recharge.
As far as shade stuns go, they only last 4 seconds, they are easy to remove, and the nano skills required to cast the better ones are ridiculously high, they also prevent another line of nanos being used so they do come with a drawback.
Crat stuns lasting 10 or 15 seconds that cannot be removed and work on anything/everything are ridiculous and completely overpowered, the only way I would support the stuns to stay as stuns is if they were put in the same line as all the other stuns, making them removable as well as not working on bosses, and their duration being reduced to 4 seconds at most, then they wouldn't be Overpowered, to be honest that would probably be a better solution that making them roots as far as I'm concerned but it's not really my call.
P.S. Though personally I don't like bosses being completely immune to the normal stuns considering the costs of using them.
Actually that's that was mentioned this week but not all that was done, if you look in the Database rip however you will see a lot of work has been done to rename all the Arul Saba bracers as well as the Reanimator cloaks, something the community has been wanting for a long time and something that makes these items a hell of a lot more user friendly, especially for searching for the bracers on GMS.
Ebondevil - Omni Level 220 Agent on Atlantean, Feel free to contact me any time if you have questions, in game or out.
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Maybe you're just a little bit pessimistic Nick.
Agreed, then again 18.1 only just got repatched to Testlive. It is VERY far away from making Live as it is now I'd say.
If Means et al makes the pets good enough for me to have to kite them, one of the following things has to happen:
- Pets do extremely much more damage.
- Pets do a debuff - not likely.
- Pets get stunprocs .
More damage == better at holding agg last time I checked?
Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic
TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered
crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.
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Stun procs
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Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds
Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic
TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered
crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.
instead of joining in the bandwagon on the whole argument thing whether stuns are overpowered or not, and all that jazz, let me just say.... im all for easy mode. not sure how ppl are rooting for making the game more difficult than it already is. sometimes u just cant even do an instance if u cant find a crat because you dont have 40 ppl willing to do it at any given time. ur lucky if u can fill a team. this goes back to the old "anarchy is dying". first of all, im against turning the stun into a root, just is bad, but id like to see a cooldown, that would be much more effective, and perhaps a shortening of the duration, but certainly NOT turning into a root. i think that makes much more sense. but secondly, even if the stun is a bandaid, its a very helpful bandaid, from the collectives point of view. now, instead of "we need a crat" its, "we need 8 more ppl". and thats bull**** cuz its already hard to find ppl for stuff. but i give u an A for effort means. ur heart is in the right place.
[11:08] <Means> Mr.T and Shatner are not "AO" enough
[11:09] <Technogen> Yes they are, they have geek cred
[11:09] <ShadowGod> shater might of been
[11:09] <ShadowGod> shatner even
[11:09] <ShadowGod> i know... brent spiner!
[11:09] <Technogen> THERE!
[11:09] <Technogen> That's perfect
[11:09] <Windguaerd> Also we can come up with creative, nerdy, trendy, hip, modern, old skool, any type of commercial if we wanted to
[11:10] <Technogen> Well, we could do it fine, but ALL content has to be from within AO, no 3rd party models or images
[11:10] <Windguaerd> Who has not seen the player-made video with the Beast being rushed by a ton of players which made that scene look EPIC
[11:10] <Hacre> get Patrick Stewart
[11:10] <Hacre> he's epic geek cred
[11:10] <Technogen> Since the content is from within AO, fc already owens the rights to it, so there would be no legal problems for Means to deal with.
[11:11] <Means> I would want Steven Hawking for sure.
[11:11] <Hacre> hell yeah
[11:11] <Technogen> HEHE!
[11:11] <ShadowGod> hawkings in a mech....
[11:11] <Technogen> "In the future, I kick majors heck ass yo."
[11:11] <Means> saying "You can't perk me bitches!" in that automated voice
[11:11] <ShadowGod> he'd totally pwn Mr T's elf or whatever
[11:11] <Aythem> what AO mob is shortened to DD ?
[11:11] <Hacre> "This. Is. How. I. Would. Like. The. U-Nee-Verse. To. Be."
[11:11] <Technogen> HAHAHAH
? Most pvp fights are over in 8 seconds. Many in 2 or 3. I could see a root nano needing to be longer but a root process... maybe if it only fired off as often as an MA's dimach - say 11 minutes at fastest, then the root process should be longer.
What's the recycle time on the new crat process?