Welcome to the new "Root you in your Yalm and kill you" bug.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Shubalubdub
In this case, however, it's not balanced. The ability to exploit a vulnerability must be available to all, as well, else some are unevenly affected. Most classes don't have roots, so they can't do anything to an NT who decides that ganking = fun. If everyone has a root, then it's fine to say, "keep out of PvP zones." Another option, add a toggle for the mission terms to not offer missions in PvP zones.

One thing about Grid camping, it SHOULD NOT have been an issue. I mean, come ON. If you get camped, don't grid into 2ho, ya fricking morons.

Hrm...According to Pipboy:

Originally posted by PipBoy


That isn't an option. I got ganked by an MP just recently and it went as follows:

I was flying through Stret East at an altitude of about 140 or 150. That's almost 4 times the maximum range of all weapons and nanos (40). I saw an MP flying nearby using Quantum Wings. I thought nothing of it since they can't attack while in QW. All of a sudden, the MP stops flying and I'm rooted; my yalms falls to the ground along with the MP (the MP used a root nano boosted-graft). I am stuck in y yalm as the MP's nukes me until death.

So the vulnerability is there for everyone to exploit with the right equipment.

A toggle to the mission terms stating non-pvp areas isn't necessary as well. Going to a different grid terminal in a different playfield has always worked to get new possible mission locations for me. I've gone on missions in PvP zones and I've chosen quite easily to go on missions not in PvP zones.

Just how much do people want AO to hand to them on a platter? As it stands, the game will pretty much hand you everything already. On silver no less

[Turin]

Here is a favorite tactic of the greifers. They wait at the zone border. no prob. you zone in and immedialtey fly upwards to get away from any greif campers. The camper though, is in his yalm as well, he follows you up. while following you in the air, he jumps out of car really fast behind you and casts a root while he is falling, this of course roots you and you fall as well, he kills you. end of camp story. So, flying high is not always the safe answer. I was killed several times this way. Snarf i believe it was, perfected this technique

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Turin
Here is a favorite tactic of the greifers. They wat at the zone border. no prob. you zone in anf immedialty fly upwards to get away from any greif campers. The camper though, is in his yalm as well, he follows you up. while following you in the air, he jumps out of car really fast behind you and casts a root while he is falling, this of course roots you and you call as well, he kills you. end of camp story. So, flaying high is not always the safe answer. I was killed several times this war. Snarf i believe it was, perfected thins technique

From the In Production->On Test Server page:

Other Changes:

• Zoning while flying now preserves altitude.

Anything else?

[____________Customer]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


The situation with grid camping is not equivalent to this situation as Grid Camping occured when the player was unable to respond due to technical restraints of their computer.

You're advocating for too much of a safety factor to air travel. As it currently stands air travel provides near invulnerability during travelling. There should be a de-equip time to get out of an air vehicle same as it takes time to put on armor or swap weapons. It's called having a vulnerability. One that is applied to everyone that uses an air vehicle. Unlike the one applied to the grid camping situation, which only affected those with slower computers. And a vulnerability that is applied to everyone, equally is called balanced.

Want to hear a wacky idea?
I would like every vehical in the game removed.
I dont think travel should be safe.
I would love it if highway robbery were possible.
I like the idea of patrolling land to keep the enemy out.
Everything that AO should have been was ruined by
the last-minute addition of vehicals.
All that said, risk-free ganking is still lame.

the above poster also has a valid point.
only certain classes (the ones with roots) can exploit this tactic.
so only rooting classes can score free title points?
that is not balanced.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Reclaim


Want to hear a wacky idea?
I would like every vehical in the game removed.
I dont think travel should be safe.
I would love it if highway robbery were possible.
I like the idea of patrolling land to keep the enemy out.
Everything that AO should have been was ruined by
the last-minute addition of vehicals.
All that said, risk-free ganking is still lame.

the above poster also has a valid point.
only certain classes (the ones with roots) can exploit this tactic.
so only rooting classes can score free title points?
that is not balanced.

5 words: "Hacked Symbio-Graft: Detain Suspect"

If it means that much to you that you have to be able to do it too, go find one of those

Personally, I find it much easier to:

• Not enter PvP zones for missions
• Not enter PvP zones via easily guessed entry points for missions.
• Not sit around worrying that every shadow on a PvP playfield is a root wielding, invisibile Agent waiting to gank me.

[____________Customer]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


5 words: "Hacked Symbio-Graft: Detain Suspect"

If it means that much to you that you have to be able to do it too, go find one of those

Personally, I find it much easier to:

• Not enter PvP zones for missions
• Not enter PvP zones via easily guessed entry points for missions.
• Not sit around worrying that every shadow on a PvP playfield is a root wielding, invisibile Agent waiting to gank me.

I dont need a graft. I can instacast AoE roots.
And unless a non-rooting class is using the exploit that
allows you to use a symbio without the skill lock,
then I still dont consider them a rooting class.

And noone has yet to come up with a justification as to why
one player should be allowed to kill another player at no risk.

[Skymarshal]

The simple fact is that if you are in a PvP zone, be it 25%, or 0% you need to relize that you may be killed.


Never ever do i go into 25% without the thought that I might be going out via reclaim.

If you go into a 25% or 0% zone and dont expect that you will be killed, you are ignorant. If you think that being in a yalm should save you, you are absolutly wrong, it wont, and it shouldnt...

At some point the adventurer will be able to attack in pit lizard form while flying, what then... you just have to run... or dequip.


Im a soldier, and I have killed people in yalms before, we were out in DAV and the clan we were fighting was sending in spys... they would hover over our strong hold and send out intel... to bad they were over level 75


Expect to die in a PvP zone, it will happen... esspecialy when you least expect it

[Gnubi]

And noone has yet to come up with a justification as to why
one player should be allowed to kill another player at no risk.

The simple fact is that if you are in a PvP zone, be it 25%, or 0% you need to relize that you may be killed.

Never ever do i go into 25% without the thought that I might be going out via reclaim.

Im impressed how the people that defends the current system keeps ignoring the fundemental problem. Yes, when going into pvp zone you should be aware that there is a risk, but no - it should not be possibel to kill another player with no risk, thats called an exploit. Im sorry to state it like this.. but is people here dump? Everyone can agree that pvp=risk, but killing someone with no risk has nothing to do with pvp. Unfortunaly I think the only way this will ever get fixed, if it becomes a big enough problem, so lame on with your free kills.

[tooslow]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


A toggle to the mission terms stating non-pvp areas isn't necessary as well. Going to a different grid terminal in a different playfield has always worked to get new possible mission locations for me. I've gone on missions in PvP zones and I've chosen quite easily to go on missions not in PvP zones.

Great, if you know where the PVP zones are. As a low level character, you take a mission for Newland, how do you know at the mission terminal, which missions are fine to take, and which are actually in the 25% zone? A toggle would be nice. Or not putting low-level missions in PVP zones would be even better.

I've taken missions other places (don't remember where), and had to run through 25% to get to them. I had no idea that 25% was there (until I got the message). There's no defined border you can look at and see how to go around it either.

Before I got grid phreak, I got ganked just trying to run through Meetmedere to get to the grid terminal on the way back from a mission (I didn't know where it was, but knew there was supposed to be one there; I've since figured out how to run in and make it to the terminal during my invulnerable period). I have no title, I don't PVP, I was running through, not targetting anyone, just minding my own business. At under lvl 35 as a fixer, not a whole lot I could do. I rooted the guy and ran away for a while. He couldn't catch me, but I was still in combat, couldn't grid or heal (beyond a hot).

I know, I don't have a yalm, I don't PVP, I'm a lowbie, and my post count is under 10, so my opinion doesn't count. But to me, the mission check box seems like a really good idea, especially for the lower levels. It seems more painful to have some twink gank you at 24 for trying to sneak through a PVP zone to your mission because you aren't sure how to get to it otherwise, than to lose most of a level at 50 because of all the XP you just gained in a mission on the otherside of a PVP zone. Yeah, it still sucks, but at least you knew it was there and what your chances were like going into it (and more importantly, how to avoid it if you wanted to go through the extra work).

***

Personally, I think the invulnerability in yalms (say, above 40m; I know it doesn't work that way now) is fine, as long as they find a fix for the scouting. I think the scouting by yalm during PVP can be fixed with a couple new PVP nanos or items:

Engineer: Smoke Generator
Creates vision obscuring field of nanobots at a height of 30m (or something under the invulnerability ceiling). If you're invulnerable in a yalm, you won't be able to see the battlefield. If you can see it, you have to be at an altitude that leaves you open to attack. Maybe counterable by an Adventurer: Winds nano?

You could do the same thing with an Adventurer: Cloud Cover. Or a 'Crat:Presidential Address nano. Reduces field of vision distance (i.e the speech makes your eyes glaze over with boredom); and when combined with some other profs item (i.e. a transmitter from a trader or engineer), get's broadcasted to all vehicles in area...

Yeah, these would probably be pretty involved to implement and balance, but I think they could be cool if massive-storyline influencing sided PVP battles are ever implemented. Would also allow them to set high altitude yalms as gank proof for travellers, while retaining risk for scouts. Although it may not be possible if distance is only tracked by terrain area and not vertically

Rehlnar
Lvl 50 Clan Fixer
RK1

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Rehlnar


Great, if you know where the PVP zones are. As a low level character, you take a mission for Newland, how do you know at the mission terminal, which missions are fine to take, and which are actually in the 25% zone? A toggle would be nice. Or not putting low-level missions in PVP zones would be even better.

I've taken missions other places (don't remember where), and had to run through 25% to get to them. I had no idea that 25% was there (until I got the message). There's no defined border you can look at and see how to go around it either.

Before I got grid phreak, I got ganked just trying to run through Meetmedere to get to the grid terminal on the way back from a mission (I didn't know where it was, but knew there was supposed to be one there; I've since figured out how to run in and make it to the terminal during my invulnerable period). I have no title, I don't PVP, I was running through, not targetting anyone, just minding my own business. At under lvl 35 as a fixer, not a whole lot I could do. I rooted the guy and ran away for a while. He couldn't catch me, but I was still in combat, couldn't grid or heal (beyond a hot).

I know, I don't have a yalm, I don't PVP, I'm a lowbie, and my post count is under 10, so my opinion doesn't count. But to me, the mission check box seems like a really good idea, especially for the lower levels. It seems more painful to have some twink gank you at 24 for trying to sneak through a PVP zone to your mission because you aren't sure how to get to it otherwise, than to lose most of a level at 50 because of all the XP you just gained in a mission on the otherside of a PVP zone. Yeah, it still sucks, but at least you knew it was there and what your chances were like going into it (and more importantly, how to avoid it if you wanted to go through the extra work).

***

Personally, I think the invulnerability in yalms (say, above 40m; I know it doesn't work that way now) is fine, as long as they find a fix for the scouting. I think the scouting by yalm during PVP can be fixed with a couple new PVP nanos or items:

Engineer: Smoke Generator
Creates vision obscuring field of nanobots at a height of 30m (or something under the invulnerability ceiling). If you're invulnerable in a yalm, you won't be able to see the battlefield. If you can see it, you have to be at an altitude that leaves you open to attack. Maybe counterable by an Adventurer: Winds nano?

You could do the same thing with an Adventurer: Cloud Cover. Or a 'Crat:Presidential Address nano. Reduces field of vision distance (i.e the speech makes your eyes glaze over with boredom); and when combined with some other profs item (i.e. a transmitter from a trader or engineer), get's broadcasted to all vehicles in area...

Yeah, these would probably be pretty involved to implement and balance, but I think they could be cool if massive-storyline influencing sided PVP battles are ever implemented. Would also allow them to set high altitude yalms as gank proof for travellers, while retaining risk for scouts. Although it may not be possible if distance is only tracked by terrain area and not vertically

Rehlnar
Lvl 50 Clan Fixer
RK1

The first time you enter a playfield that turns out to be PvP zone, yeah they can say "I didn't know". But that's also called a learning experience. Subsequent visits to that playfield and attempting to say "I didn't know" means they didn't learn.

I got capped gridding into Meetmedere 1 time. After that, I ran from NLC to Meetmedere when I got a mission with coordinates in that area. Never got caught again.

[Dhurdahl]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


From the In Production->On Test Server page:


Anything else?

Yepp, in 14.4 you can't cast while falling

So both cases presented here is solved... aka

* Fly att 200m when zoning... you will zone out that that hight.
* They can't drop from above and cast any more.

[___________Evilspork]

Originally posted by SkyMarshal
The simple fact is that if you are in a PvP zone, be it 25%, or 0% you need to relize that you may be killed.

Never ever do i go into 25% without the thought that I might be going out via reclaim.

If you go into a 25% or 0% zone and dont expect that you will be killed, you are ignorant. If you think that being in a yalm should save you, you are absolutly wrong, it wont, and it shouldnt...

God, are you retarded? Yes, there should be risk when going into a PvP area. But it has to be risk for ganker and the gankee, not just one party. How often would this happen if the victim could attack back?

And this is NOT like a car jacking. A car jacker doesn't tie you up inside your car from 50 feet away then come and pull you out, helpless; he has to run up to the car and risk a retaliation from the driver.

[Nullifax]

Originally posted by Dhurdahl



Yepp, in 14.4 you can't cast while falling

So both cases presented here is solved... aka

* Fly att 200m when zoning... you will zone out that that hight.
* They can't drop from above and cast any more.

Problem is NOT solved. Symbio grafts and Boosted grafts are not casting. They are items which are instantly used. This means that people can still use Grafts to root you while falling from the sky.

[Pneuma]

I had "Curse of Chronos" cast on me while in a Yalm a few weeks ago (OE patch eve, 4Holes battle. )by an MP using QW. Other issues around the event that sucked: Unequip time of Yalm made fighting/fleeing impossible (Not that I had a chance anyway & now vehicle equip times are even longer, /me sighs) and the MP attacking me was about 100 lvls above me. OK, maybe not 100, but IMHO 75+ being attackable by all players of higher lvl is as unbalanced as "twinked" players being able to kill toons 100 lvls above them. BTW at that same event a soldier tried the Yalm exit trick & received the "Start attack failed" message. We joked about skys being safe again. Then that MP rocked my world. At the time I took it in stride and actually had a good laugh over it. I would be ok with it if it wasn't for the disparity between my lvl & that of the attacker. This was pre 14.2.
My 2 cents.