Broken Concealment/Perception Check

[Lektronik]

So I decided to play my agent. He's 170 (1417 conceal).

I wanted to get the new 6 minute root from the RK quest.

I get to the camp with the hackers, crackers, and black hats. I do what any agent does to start off a pvm attack... I sneak.

These being level 89, I don't even have to think whether or not I should be able to hide from them.....but.....nada.

They all can see me. Crackers, hackers, and black hats.

"Fixing" that perception/concealment check just killed a major part of my agent's attack.

My guess is that when FC fixed the perception vs concealment check (assuming they actually did fix it), they forgot about the actual numbers.

What I mean by that is before the patch, they were saying "concealment skill of X can hide from perception skill of Y". Well, those numbers were based on a bugged system. They need to be changed. to accommodate the bug-free (lol) system.


Edited to add: On further testing, it seems that if they are level 80 I can sneak from them. 98% of them are higher than 80 though. Even still, I'm an agent. At 170, I should be able to hide from a level 89 mob very very easily.

Coordinates: Pos: 1077.8, 1876.9, 37.5, Area: Western Forested Grasslands. Time: 2008-06-21 03:26:41 (UTC) In Varmint Woods.

[Cyberleet]

Those mobs already were quite perceptive, pre-patch I couldn't AS them on 220 agent even.
The change is only a bonus for agents, I assure you

It's a bug with vicinity/not vicinity however, or maybe it's supposed to work like that.

[kuznechik]

1st thought - raise/buff conceal
2nd thought - these mobs are fixers mostly. And fixers supposed to have good perception.

[Lektronik]

1st thought - raise/buff conceal
2nd thought - these mobs are fixers mostly. And fixers supposed to have good perception.

@ 1st thought - I shouldn't need to worry about "twinking" conceal when the mob is almost 100 levels lower than me.

@ 2nd thought - I took that into consideration, however, fixers don't wear cyberdecks and nuke you like crackers (?). And again, the mobs are level 83-89 and I am 170. There is too much of a level difference even for fixer mobs with perception buffs.

---

@ monique - My testing contradicts your assurance. And while I'm not calling you a liar when you say a 220 couldn't AS em pre 17.9, I find it totally hard to believe, considering that I CAN AS a lvl 80-82 of that type mob and yet I CANNOT attack that type if it's level is 83-89. Thanks for replying nonetheless. Something is fishy with these mobs if nothing else.

[Ayria]

If I can hide from Dreadlochs, Dustbrigade, Escaped Prisoners in PvM and 220 Advs/Fixers in PvP I should damn well be able to hide from some grey twit of a mob that can't even compare to me in any other conceivable way.

Doesn't matter what patch they were released in if I can hide from nearly everything else in the game I should be able to hide from them. Giving a monster 50 000 perception is not making it challenging, it's nerfing someones toolset. Like LE mission aliens being immune to nearly every debuff; sure it makes em tough but there's other ways to make em tough besides making someones toolset utterly useless.

[dododo2]

there's other ways to make em tough besides making someones toolset utterly useless.

Right, cause all you can do on ur agent is AS?

[Lektronik]

Right, cause all you can do on ur agent is AS?

You do understand that you just showed everyone that you don't have a correct perspective on the matter, right?

[kuznechik]

Some mobs have high NR, rendering NTs useless.
Some mobs have infinite blockers, leaving soldiers nerfed.
Some have high perception... Tough cookie for agents.

[Lektronik]

Some mobs have high NR, rendering NTs useless.
Some mobs have infinite blockers, leaving soldiers nerfed.
Some have high perception... Tough cookie for agents.

Name a mob that has so high NR that an NT that is 100 (or 150 even) levels higher can't land nukes (aside from boss mobs/dynas).

Never seen a mob with infinite blockers before. Pande perhaps? Regardless, that doesn't effect just soldiers, that effects all persons with special attacks.

I agree that some mobs would have extreme perception so that an agent couldn't sneak even. Those mobs however should ONLY be restricted to boss mobs and dynas.

The mobs I've mentioned are regular mobs, nothing special to them except for the fact that you have to kill them in a quest. For that matter, you don't have to have the quest to kill them.

-----------

Now, back on topic. This thread is created to alert FC to a problem with the perception/concealment checks with those particular mobs and possibly others. This is not a whine thread.

Please leave the agent-hate out of the thread. Agents didn't make the game. FC did. Don't like agents? Hate FC. (But not in this thread!)

If you wish to report similar perception/concealment check issues, please feel free to do so in this thread. Otherwise, if you have nothing nice to say, keep the **** to yourself. Thanks.

[Shrpshooter]

I don't think this has anything to do with any recent attempt of fixes. My agent with 2300+ conceal has been detected by mobs 200 lvls lower and where of no special class/race with high prec.. This feature has been broke/buggy since launch. My mp with about 200 less conceal than your agent was able to AS the mobs in question so lvl may have something to do with it even though I completly agree that being 100 lvls higher should be a no brainer. The chance of this getting fixed anytime soon is less likely than pet classes actually knowing where their pets are right now )

[Vamzer]

You do understand that you just showed everyone that you don't have a correct perspective on the matter, right?

This sentence is kewl, I take it for my sig.

[Avari]

Anyone that doesn't agree with me has the wrong perspective on the matter

[Lektronik]

This sentence is kewl, I take it for my sig.

Glad I could be of assistance.

[Ruffixx]

I'm pretty sure the Perception v. Conceal check now isn't 100% either... so it's not "broken."


If you have 2k Conceal and someone has 1k Perception, you should probably be able to vanish 9 times out of 10 (or more), but there is room for randomness where you aren't able to. At least I believe that's how things worked and have always worked

[MrMacdk]

Dont know how fc thinks this should work, but in my book, you should not be able to walk in to my face and press hide for me to go "oh where did you go". thats how perception seemed to work before. If you are not able to hide from a mob you are starring right in the face, its working as intended I would say.

[Eponyx]

I had a little look at the Crackers, hackers, and black hats on test and they have a perception that is about 65% higer then your Concealment.

[Rktim]

I had a little look at the Crackers, hackers, and black hats on test and they have a perception that is about 65% higer then your Concealment.

Eponyx to the rescue! (Sorta)

Beeing a mature adult im just going to stick to "ha ha Agents got pwnt"

On a side note Soldiers have/had to put up with the cyborg dude with 100% Energy, radiation and fire reflect when our main source of fire power was... well you guess..

[Lektronik]

I had a little look at the Crackers, hackers, and black hats on test and they have a perception that is about 65% higer then your Concealment.

Ah so we are dealing with a stupid developer(s) then. Guess I should have expected that from FC...been here long enough to know better. Regular mobs at level 89 running around with 2300 perception. Genius.

Thanks for the clarification though.

[Zandibel]

I think the idea is that when you are killing the mobs and they are around your level or hard to you, you have no chance at all of hiding from them to make the encounter a little harder. The side effect is that when you are alot higher and can quite easily kill them even without aimed shot you still can't conceal from them.

[-Stage-]

Ah so we are dealing with a stupid developer(s) then. Guess I should have expected that from FC...been here long enough to know better. Regular mobs at level 89 running around with 2300 perception. Genius.

Thanks for the clarification though.

wtf, how long does it take you to kill level 80ish mobs without AS? Quit bitching, this barely matters!