Simple solution to all Weapon creation problems

[_____________Makarov]

I WILL POST THIS ON FEW FORUMS ATT SAME TIME JUST IN HOPE TO GET NOTICED BY SOME FC FOLKS AND NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO SPAM IT.


Lets look att todays weapon creation. Me and most of other engineer agree that it are totaly fubar because you (FC) maked to many formulas for different Q for same kind of weapon.
Which probably messed it all up. As i se now you (FC) before adding new weapon formula have to check others just to be sure that you dont use same items in same steps as in some othere furmulas. But I gues that you sometimes forget to do that or not carefull and result are NONworking formulas like Mausser/Aleph/Patriot.

Mine solution are very simple make just ONE formula for weapons(which you should be able to make) and let Q of Weapon kit be the thing that decide the Q of finished weapon.
This will make it much easier for everybody. We (engineers) will be able to make weapon faster and deliver it to our customers. '
And you (FC) will save yourself some game code because that you wont need to keep an eye on 400+ of todays formulas ( btw most of them are not working).

This was polite question from me.
But if you want instead people to cry and whine about how you suck and that they are going to cancel account. Then well i gues that i can make such post to (If you would listen more to it instead of inteligent suggestions).


So please save us (all who want to make weapons and other items) and you (FC) some time and redo your todays weapon creation system.

PS: Thanks for making me one of two creators of Kamikaze bots.

With best regards
Cyrus "Makarov" Scola

[__________WGMelchior]

Another nice thing would be to be able to combine a manual (manual still stays, by the way) with a kit, and the description of the kit would then contain:


Assembled parts.

Next step, along with the QLs/skills needed.

Future steps.

Database link to the finished product. It would just be a link, similar to a reference or a chat-link.

[__________WGMelchior]

Oh, and along with that change, why not make it so that you can assemble parts in any order you want?

[XtroXtreme]

They should make assembling a bit like it is in Arcanum.

Get all parts, take up schematics known and press asseble button. All finnished.

[_____________Makarov]

Comeon FOLKS Weapon making was never 100% working. Dont you think that they could att least do a small fix for it?

[__________WGMelchior]

Eh, I assumed they are working on it.

[Giganti]

It wouldn't hurt to see weapon smithing take 1-3 tradeskills max either. For some, if not most weapons, it takes what... weapon smithing, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, quantum physics, and nanoprogramming? That doesn't seem even a little rediculous?

I made a newbie trader alt in hopes of doing tradeskills, but after looking at some of the recipie requirements, I quickly gave him up. That's not a positive feeling for tradeskills by any means.

[_____________Rowenna]

I think FC needs make all these trade skills WHITE colored on skill tree.

WHITE skills do not eat IP points, but follow the rule of being able to raise 6 points per level + are not title capped. (UO, anyone? = how bout fun)

That way, people just *might* go and play with tradeskills and have some more fun. The way its now, almost noone in their sane minds spends IPs on trades when they are so short on fighting skills.

Of course, this would make all those that invested IPs in trades before mad... hmm...

[Giganti]

The white skill idea isnt bad, it'd attract more people to tradeskills... But then EVERYONE would have them. I don't like that.

I think they just need to make it more viable. 1-3 skills per item is MORE than enough Ip already wasted... how many people can honestly afford to max 3 skills useable only for tradeskill items? Probably even 1-2 is better...

[_____________Naosuko]

Hi, my character's name is Albea, and... she's a tradeoholic. Because of the generous donations of her guild, she has the credits and supplies to do tradeskill research for the guild.

As such, I know a _whole_ lot about how weapon QL and names work.

For example, if you see something with Cast-Off in the name, that means it's between QL 21 and 40. The more impressive sounding the name prefix is (Irreparable, Balanced, Perfected, whatever), the higher QL it is. It's like that in the database, so when we make weapons, that's how they're going to turn out. As it happens, there is no way to make, say, a QL 23 Cast-Off Minigrinner and a QL 23 Irreparable Minigrinner. For every line of weapon (eg. Blackhole Mk IX), there is only one way of making a given QL.

It wouldn't hurt to see weapon smithing take 1-3 tradeskills max either. For some, if not most weapons, it takes what... weapon smithing, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, quantum physics, and nanoprogramming? That doesn't seem even a little rediculous?

Hi, welcome to the wonderful world of traders, where EVERY SINGLE ONE of the trades skills is green or light blue. Engineers are in the same situation. We're like that, so that we can make things the rest can't.

And as it happens, Albea actually makes decent xp off tradeskills and does level fairly regularly. She hasn't put a point in a combat skill for six levels now, and has all her trade skills maxed. And implanted. And I know she's got two level's worth of xp just waiting to be unlocked in the most recent set of bags she's recieved, but because I've been busy with work she hasn't had the time to deal with them.

Oh, and along with that change, why not make it so that you can assemble parts in any order you want?

'Cause the order of parts determines what quality weapon you're trying to make (Cast-Off, Balanced, whatever). They had to pick some way of selecting between the five or six different versions of a weapon, depending on its quality, and part order's a decent enough way of doing it. See, each item has a list of things that can be combined onto it, and what that combining produces. I don't think there's any way of changing that based on QL of parts as the system is currently set up. What this means is that, whether you use a QL 1 kit or a QL 200 one, if you follow the recipe for an Ill-Treated Blackened Blaster Rifle, you'll make an Ill-Treated Blaster rifle of the appropriate QL... unless of course there's no such thing as a QL 200 Ill-Treated Blackened Blaster Rifle, in which case the last step of the recipe simply doesn't do anything.

Now, I admit that it would be much nicer to simply have the last step say, "If QL < 21 then create an Ill-Treated Whatever of same QL, else if QL < 41 then create a Cast-Off Whatever of same QL, else if..." That would mean there'd only be one Sleekblaster Major recipe, only one Triplejolt recipe, only one Abigail recipe. But I don't think the item combination code allows for such complex rules as it currently stands.

Now for the broken recipes. Melee weapons and SMGs don't work {with the single exception that I've found to date being the OT Basic Weaponskills terminal (a 2HE recipe), which makes one of the _old_ tradeskill terminals, which functions normally when you drop it on the ground until about a minute's passed, when it vanishes. 'Course, that recipe's not available to buy anymore.}, and neither do certain other recipes (1124 Co - Mathis Multi-Energy Rifle, ANEX - Mathis Multi-Energy Rifle, Cast-Off Blackened Blaster, Cast-Off Blackened Blaster Rifle, Cast-Off Disaffiliation Sniper, Cheap Fiddle Rifle, to name a few). I'm guessing this's because they're pointing at the wrong item to be constructed, so for example when Albea tries to make a QL 35 Cast-Off Disaffiliation Sniper, a QL 35 Perfected Disaffiliation Sniper is what's attempted to be created... and there's no such thing. On the other hand, some recipes won't allow you to complete a certain step, which just means that the code for step 3 + item --> step 4 combination isn't there.

Another nice thing would be to be able to combine a manual (manual still stays, by the way) with a kit, and the description of the kit would then contain:

Assembled parts.

Next step, along with the QLs/skills needed.

Future steps.

Database link to the finished product. It would just be a link, similar to a reference or a chat-link.

Now this I do like. If the system is to be changed, then this is a very good alternate.

Step 1: Combine Weapon Template (Weaponname) (ie, recipe) with an appropriate Construction Kit. The recipes will still be available in stores, although I like the idea of rare and hard-to-find disks. This will produce a Prepared Construction Kit (Weaponname) and regenerate the original Weapon Template, so you can have more than one version of a weapon under construction at the same time. And honestly, once you know how to make it once, you can make it a hundred times, since the process isn't as complicated as the nanoweaving involved in nano crystal production.

The Prepared Construction Kit (Quality Weaponname) has the next item required as part of the description, and will only accept that item. (Quality Weaponname) implies that the resultant weapon depends on the QL of the Kit only, not the order. The QL check would go here, rather than at the last step.

Step 2: Combine the required first part onto the Prepared Construction Kit. This produces a Incomplete (Quality Weaponname), with all the next parts in the description.

Step 3...Step X: Combine the next part omto the Incomplete (Quality Weaponname).

Step X+1: Combine the last part. Ths produces a (Quality Weaponname).

Given the way that items are stored, as far as I can tell, there's no way to include a reference in an item description. It works for missions, but you can't see the mission reward by looking at your key, can you?

In summary: yes, some recipes are broken (melee, SMG, some others), but they are fixable under the current system of weapon creation. If a new system were to be introduced, then large changes could be made, but first the possibility of fixing the system we alread have should be considered.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: White skills would be a REALLY BAD IDEA. If you want to fight, then fight. If you want to make weapons, then make weapons. Or you can do both, but don't expect to be as good at either as you would have been if you'd specialized. It's only fair.

[Giganti]

While you might like basing a character heavily on tradeskills, I do not like that as much. Many people want to be largely effective in PvP/PvM, with maxed skills, but pick up one or two trades "on the side". When you need as many skill as you do for a single weapon, that just isn't possible.

Additionally, fixers new weapon, the Chem Streamer, must be hacked/tradeskilled to be created. Many fixers want one bad, and I dare say NEED one, because of how nerfed their class is compared to the rest. This was a vital upgrade for fixers, albiet not a true "fix" (the weapon is a lot faster sice atk/recharge switched though), and because of the need for 5+ tradeskills, it is not common enough.

I never said tradeskills should be an everyone sort of deal always... but I wish they were just a bit more seperate, so you didn't need all of em to get a single item.

Perhaps more normal items or whatnot would take 1-3 skills, while items removed from the game, such as Sunburst MKIII or Freedom Arms 3927 would be craftable via 5-6 tradeskills? There has to be a balance where both the hardcore traders and the people who want to pick up some tradeskills for a little "side fun" can both be happy.

[_________haniblecter]

KUDOS to esselte!!!

This community needs more pro-active people such as yourself!!!

That guide should be posted on some site!

[Megabio]

Well, there are NO weapons that people USE (minus Mausser but the SMG kits are broken) that you make from trade skills. Other than the (broken) Mausser, there is the okay dissafilation rifle but nothing else.
~Chris

[_____________Naosuko]

Giganti: Saying that any class, any character, NEEDS some weapon or armor or nano is a great way to piss me off. If you can't kill something, attack something weaker, or find yourself a friend or two to team up on it.

Hobbies... Well, sure. You can do that now. But as I said, don't expect to be as good at tradeskills as you'd be if you specialized in them. If there was a soldier who occasionally tinkered with guns, he might be able to figure out how his own gun worked and make a few crappy copies of it, but there's no way he'd be as good as someone who made guns for a living, ya know?

As for the broad range of skills required, well, making somethign as complicated as an assault rifle, for example, I'd expect to be complicated. The melee weapons only have four steps, of which three require complit and one requires weapon smithing. Complit! Everyone's got complit! It's a shame they don't work, but still... And, well, FC removed the removed weapons for a reason. I really don't think they're going to put them back in anytime soon.

As it happens, I haven't seen anything that required more than two skills for any individual step. That means, you can get some buddies and pass the parts around, each doing one or two steps of a weapon. You can do this with the Chem Maussers, ya know? For each step, if you don't have the skill yourself, just say what skill you need into the shopping channel and someone'll help you out, for a price.

Megabio: From what I've heard, at least some of the SMG recipes have been fixed on Test. Come 14.0 I'll be investigating that...

[__________WGMelchior]

The reason no individual step requires 2 skills or more is because the system does not support it. You HAVE to divide a process into sepparate steps if you want it to use multiple skills.

And the only way to go around this is to make the different steps NODROP, so the same person has to complete them, and make the item tradable again. This would also mean that if you notice you haven't got enough of the second skill, you are royally screwed.

I personally don't the the problem with passing on items to various specialists. It's being done in real life, and it works find in AO.

[_______________bever]

Can u make bows?

[_____________Naosuko]

Melchior: Um... I said that no step requires more than two skills. Many steps do require two skills. And... passing items on to specialists is a good thing to be doing. That's why I mentioned it.

As far as I know, there aren't any ways to make bows just yet.