PvP or not PvP: that is the question

[Cthonian]

Why would it be so good,
if everyone could choose to take part on PvP or not ?

Why do we all play games ? To have fun !

1. Even if PvP in AO would be about skill,
even then it would take a lot of time to be successful in PvP.
Many ppl. just dont have this time !
Now, have these seasoned players to play,
just to see that they suck ?
But especially in the game in persistent universe like AO,
where mostly huge amount of time invested counts,
it often means: rock in life, suck in game,
suck in life, at least try to rock in game. LOL
I'm working in a software firm. Most of my co-workers
either think computer games are just waste of time,
or at least would say : "oh well..."
We had a lan party in our firm. Once. Yeah, there was also
many ppl. who liked it ( we played HL mods/CS ),
but how many of them play games often. ? Very few.

Now, there are still ppl. who love games,
have success in RL, work, family, sport, etc.; healthy mix.
As they are successful in RL,
the monthly fee like for AO means nothing for them,
if it's fun, if it's nice ADDITION to thier life.

And AO is a lot about exploration
I think its the best part of the game.
Exploration of the world, exploration of character building,
making friends all over the world, etc.

Imagine, someone have just 3-4 hours in week to play,
how much is it going to take him building a successful lvl 60 PvP char ?
Dont know, but i think it take 2x or even 3x ,
especially if he just started to play AO.

There are ppl. who never spend IPs in trade skills,
so the most successful PvP characters are built.
But how much time is it going to take ?
Begging for buffs, implantat's making, paying for services
( money making for this ),
and this very often, cause he have to keep everything up to date.

Finaly equipment ---> long time money making,
long time in game at all, till he find something he needs
( even with omnibot it can take very long for special items ).

Wait, there a simplier way: to buy credits at ebay ... DOH !
( that's what i hated in 10six )

Traveling / exploration :
since from 75 even the PvP cap removed,
do you think these seasond players have to level over 180 just
to travel over the beatiful world of .Rubi-Ka ?
And this while it's so difficult to level because of
hunting and mission regions being 25% !

Yes, he still can travel, but being attacked if you are not prepared for PvP
as good as possible ( what would take 2x - 3x more time ) - that sux !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. There different opinions about so called "non PvP professions"
Some ppl. say - every profession should have about the same chances in PvP
I would have nothing agains it, even if it's "unrealistic",
but what the heck, is Hammer vs. Rifle realistic ?
Anyway i guess the majority think - soldiers, enforcers, etc.
should be better in PvP.

Now, should these "non PvP" professions be limited to 75% areas,
and never travel solo ?
I think it's just not fair to the players who choose these profession,
and keep in mind, these are who often help others...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

3. You will never be able to keep trolls out of the game.
These who call you n00b while killing you for example.
And not just killing:
PvP is mostly about ego,
most of these wo want to go for PvP do it to say " hey, look how good i'm "
This means a lot of personal conflicts ( not just in character ! ) ,
just take a look at PvP forum.
Accusing in cheation, accusing in unfair play or whatever.
I dont say - it's all the time,
but for some ppl. it may be a bit TOO much crap
( and anyway not everyone have even time for flame wars in forums )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, to let everyone have fun in AO,
why not let everyone to select being "military" or "civilan" at char. creation,
and later for example from title 2 & for 500.000 Cr. on lvl 60
( price respectively to the level )
to buy a special application, to change the status.
( in addition within 24hr. = no more changes limit would be good )

"military" status woud mean about the same what we have now,
may be with less safe areas.

"civilian" status: "duel mode", means both players have to hit "attack"
before the fight begin.

Sure, if "civ" want to fight "mil" or vice versa - "duel mode" for both.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if you want to make it more realistic, there is also another solution:
instead "can not attack" penalties system, like this:
1. No positive title changes, or even NEGATIVE if "civ" involved ( "vice versa" )
2. Cash penalties.
3. Token penalties
4. At the end even "hostile" on home side.
5. Missions/Hunting disadvantages

It would be even more realistic then now,
because there should be civilains in every world,
and special penalties for attacking civilians are self-evident.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And it would be the best way, ppl. can vote
"do you like PvP how it is now in AO or not?"
Now, lets see who is afraid to find out the vote's result


Quantar MP 60
Yottskry NT 13

[Cthonian]

*bump*

...and:
if you hate it being killed on 75 by 200
BUT do not enjoy it to kill a 75 on 200 - you already lost !

You hate it to complain when you think your opponent uses unfair tactics,
and you never use unfair tactics - you already lost !

There are so many OOC conflicts,
accusing being cheater etc.,
but it's all because of PvP;
do you think it would be ever a problem for someone,
someone else use dd/debuff to remove root in PvM ?

There is even a better solution then PvP flag and Penalties:
2 servers, like EQ PvP & non-PvP servers.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Chtonian
Why would it be so good,
if everyone could choose to take part on PvP or not ?

Why do we all play games ? To have fun !

1. Even if PvP in AO would be about skill,
even then it would take a lot of time to be successful in PvP.
Many ppl. just dont have this time !
Now, have these seasoned players to play,
just to see that they suck ?
But especially in the game in persistent universe like AO,
where mostly huge amount of time invested counts,
it often means: rock in life, suck in game,
suck in life, at least try to rock in game. LOL
I'm working in a software firm. Most of my co-workers
either think computer games are just waste of time,
or at least would say : "oh well..."
We had a lan party in our firm. Once. Yeah, there was also
many ppl. who liked it ( we played HL mods/CS ),
but how many of them play games often. ? Very few.

Now, there are still ppl. who love games,
have success in RL, work, family, sport, etc.; healthy mix.
As they are successful in RL,
the monthly fee like for AO means nothing for them,
if it's fun, if it's nice ADDITION to thier life.

And AO is a lot about exploration
I think its the best part of the game.
Exploration of the world, exploration of character building,
making friends all over the world, etc.

Imagine, someone have just 3-4 hours in week to play,
how much is it going to take him building a successful lvl 60 PvP char ?
Dont know, but i think it take 2x or even 3x ,
especially if he just started to play AO.

There are ppl. who never spend IPs in trade skills,
so the most successful PvP characters are built.
But how much time is it going to take ?
Begging for buffs, implantat's making, paying for services
( money making for this ),
and this very often, cause he have to keep everything up to date.

Finaly equipment ---> long time money making,
long time in game at all, till he find something he needs
( even with omnibot it can take very long for special items ).

Wait, there a simplier way: to buy credits at ebay ... DOH !
( that's what i hated in 10six )

Traveling / exploration :
since from 75 even the PvP cap removed,
do you think these seasond players have to level over 180 just
to travel over the beatiful world of .Rubi-Ka ?
And this while it's so difficult to level because of
hunting and mission regions being 25% !

Yes, he still can travel, but being attacked if you are not prepared for PvP
as good as possible ( what would take 2x - 3x more time ) - that sux !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. There different opinions about so called "non PvP professions"
Some ppl. say - every profession should have about the same chances in PvP
I would have nothing agains it, even if it's "unrealistic",
but what the heck, is Hammer vs. Rifle realistic ?
Anyway i guess the majority think - soldiers, enforcers, etc.
should be better in PvP.

Now, should these "non PvP" professions be limited to 75% areas,
and never travel solo ?
I think it's just not fair to the players who choose these profession,
and keep in mind, these are who often help others...
-----------------------------------------------------------------

3. You will never be able to keep trolls out of the game.
These who call you n00b while killing you for example.
And not just killing:
PvP is mostly about ego,
most of these wo want to go for PvP do it to say " hey, look how good i'm "
This means a lot of personal conflicts ( not just in character ! ) ,
just take a look at PvP forum.
Accusing in cheation, accusing in unfair play or whatever.
I dont say - it's all the time,
but for some ppl. it may be a bit TOO much crap
( and anyway not everyone have even time for flame wars in forums )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, to let everyone have fun in AO,
why not let everyone to select being "military" or "civilan" at char. creation,
and later for example from title 2 & for 500.000 Cr. on lvl 60
( price respectively to the level )
to buy a special application, to change the status.
( in addition within 24hr. = no more changes limit would be good )

"military" status woud mean about the same what we have now,
may be with less safe areas.

"civilian" status: "duel mode", means both players have to hit "attack"
before the fight begin.

Sure, if "civ" want to fight "mil" or vice versa - "duel mode" for both.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if you want to make it more realistic, there is also another solution:
instead "can not attack" penalties system, like this:
1. No positive title changes, or even NEGATIVE if "civ" involved ( "vice versa" )
2. Cash penalties.
3. Token penalties
4. At the end even "hostile" on home side.
5. Missions/Hunting disadvantages

It would be even more realistic then now,
because there should be civilains in every world,
and special penalties for attacking civilians are self-evident.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And it would be the best way, ppl. can vote
"do you like PvP how it is now in AO or not?"
Now, lets see who is afraid to find out the vote's result


Quantar MP 60
Yottskry NT 13

Wait til you hit 130, have been in every zone, only have BS missions to do for decent xp, and stand around bored a lot. I spent a lot of time exploring, a lot of time hunting, a lot of time talking with guildies and friends.

I am bored and pvp is still not up to snuff.

Ill be moving on to something else when it comes along *looks at shadowbane and starwars galaxy*.

They get my 13 bucks a month for a bit, but I already see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I played UO for 3 years with crappy graphics and all before I became bored. This engine just gets boring (can you say lack of high level content?)

[Cthonian]

Thank you for the answer
( after all these discussions,
i thoght you hate me by now )

My story is very different...
I never played AO Beta,
all a learned, i learned in Release.
I registered 2001-10-14

Since then i have only these:
Quantar MP 61 Omni
Yottskry NT 14 Clan
( the second char with 300k from the first,
but everything is new again ( Clan ), and its fun too )

I have about 5-15 hours in week to play AO,
and sometimes i just want to walk around and enjoy the world or Rubi-Ka.
In January i had almost no time for AO,
logged may be 2-3 times
( but didnt even thought about canceling ! )

Guess by the time, i have one character at 200,
there will be 300 levels hehe..,
and i hope to have more then one high level char once.
So far i did not explored a lot, mostly on the way to or from missions,
hunted in group and team missions - only few times;
the reason - i still need money badly
( and i but everything i think someone could need
on trade channel, also i buy almost only with omnibot )
Now on lvl 61 i have ql 70 implantats and only 760k ;
i remember, i had to pay about 600k for them,
so i'm not sure, should i skip ql 90 or not
( because guess i can not fly with them yet ),
also need few parts good armor, which isn't cheap
( have seen yesterday ql 77 biomech helmet - 150k ...mh )
But i dont whine, heck, it's all fun, it's a challenge !
So i hope, in the future, as soon i have more money, i can do
more of all these other things: some days nothing but explore the world,
a lot of group hunting, a lot of team missions,
with my first char or with another.
I dont know will i ever get bored with it,
i doubt, even "if" - may be in 2 years
Then i may really *by will* start to make heavily twinked chars for PvP,
but even then probably not, because it's pity to waste time
to earn anger, since PvP is no much about ambitions,
and everyone have own opinion what is fair and what is not
( the "Tokens"-thread just as example ),
and mostly too few time to fight in forums
( with my bad english it also takes still too long to write )

Peace

[Whiterrabbit]

Originally posted by Yazule


Ill be moving on to something else when it comes along *looks at shadowbane and starwars galaxy*.

oh no, star wars galaxies forums will soon be full of spam!

/me crosses that one off the list

jk of course yazule, i look forward to bumping into "Jedi Knight Spammasterleet"

[_______________Archu]

The people who actively pvp are often annoying. In 3 of my latest duels I have always been ganked by outsiders. I don't like to pvp in arenas because that's where the majority of the twinkers are so I pvp in MMD. Too bad most pvpers want to be strong wich means they choose omni for the best armor. MMD is always 80% omni and only a few clanners around so the ganking risk for me is high. Most people who choose omni because they get better armor (=better pvp titles) don't care about the other players. They just gank and twink to get their damn title. The result is majority of gankers are omni and majority of pvp characters are omni. Clanners above L75 but under L100 (sometimes under L75 too) = dead meat.