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Thread: fast/low damage attact and ac problem

  1. #1

    fast/low damage attact and ac problem

    People seem to attribute an ma's low damage output to the fact that their attacks can be delivered faster but each one does less damage per hit. That low damage is then reduced to minimun by the opponents ac.

    Well, consider this:

    You are attacking an elephant and you have your fists, an uzi and an elephant gun.

    1. With fists. You can stand there all day punching an elephant's leg and all you will get is a sore fist and a pissed off elephant.

    2. You can shoot the elephant with the uzi (a fast firing weapon where each bullet hits with relatively low force). The elephant has such thick skin, mucsel and bone that the bullets just bounce of its skull causing superficial damage. It way die later of blood loss or disease.

    3. You can shoot the elephant with the elephant gun (designed for killing elephants!) It only fires two shots but each one is such high calibre that the bullet is capable of peircing its skull and blowing its brains out its ass.

    The ac system may not be fun to play but it _is_ realistic.

    I think the answer is MA weapons should allow the ma to do more damage.

    An MA does not have to be Bruce Lee. An MA can be a _NINJA_. Swords, Sai, Nunchucks, Staffs, Bows, Crossbows, Throwing Knives, Throwing Stars. Sneak Attacks, supernatural powers!!

    Has anyone ever read Elektra Assasin? She has the ability to do something called a Silent Shout which projects people through windows etc.


    Earthstick.

  2. #2
    ah... Elektra... I've been looking for a reprint of the original series... that was great.

    -D

  3. #3
    I was thinking of that when I named my character, this is my first one and I didn't want to play a women otherwise I would have tried for Elektra.

  4. #4

    Re: fast/low damage attact and ac problem

    Originally posted by Earth Stick
    People seem to attribute an ma's low damage output to the fact that their attacks can be delivered faster but each one does less damage per hit. That low damage is then reduced to minimun by the opponents ac.

    Well, consider this:

    You are attacking an elephant and you have your fists, an uzi and an elephant gun.

    1. With fists. You can stand there all day punching an elephant's leg and all you will get is a sore fist and a pissed off elephant.

    2. You can shoot the elephant with the uzi (a fast firing weapon where each bullet hits with relatively low force). The elephant has such thick skin, mucsel and bone that the bullets just bounce of its skull causing superficial damage. It way die later of blood loss or disease.

    3. You can shoot the elephant with the elephant gun (designed for killing elephants!) It only fires two shots but each one is such high calibre that the bullet is capable of peircing its skull and blowing its brains out its ass.

    The ac system may not be fun to play but it _is_ realistic.

    I think the answer is MA weapons should allow the ma to do more damage.
    I think your analogy is a tad flawed. Let me ask you this question:

    In a streetfight would you bring a 50lb sledgehammer or your fists?

    Personally I'd bring my fists. Why? Sure, if the other guy with the sledge hits me I'm breaking every bone, but he has to hit me first. I pretty sure that I'd be able to avoid many of his blows. Even if he was heavly armored I would choose my fists. Granted most of my blows wouldn't do much damage, but since it's easier to change direction on my fists and they are faster I would be able to strike at exposed spots and in that way win.

    I think(and I might be wrong) that this is the situation FC thought of when they looked at fast vs slow attacks(weapons or fists). Just look at some of the stats of the weapons out there. The BFGs have a really slow rate of fire and damage is usualy 1-some big number. Then you look at some of the faster weapons they have higher min damage and you can dual wield. Then add the slow low damage weapons with insane crits.

    I think the problem is that FC didn't anticipate that most players don't put anything into their evades, therefore weapons with a crappy damage but hight crits suddenly looked damn good. A high critting weapon became more important than a weapon with good avg damage. In addition I don't think FC thoguht people would be so creative in their overequiping, or the fact that people would not waste ips on nano programing when they were soldiers or map navigation, etc. Also I think they made AC too effective. I personally think that evades should be more effective in reducing damage than AC.

    This has caused FC to completely imbalance the game, and in doing that they hurt a lot of professions.
    Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.

    Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier

    Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.

  5. #5

    Re: Re: fast/low damage attact and ac problem

    Originally posted by Plasmatiq


    Even if he was heavly armored I would choose my fists. Granted most of my blows wouldn't do much damage, but since it's easier to change direction on my fists and they are faster I would be able to strike at exposed spots and in that way win.
    Thats would be a fair comment except that AC covers the entire body - there are no exposed spots. Armor covering different parts of the body mearly accumulates AC.



    This has caused FC to completely imbalance the game, and in doing that they hurt a lot of professions.
    I think they should quit nerfing things and just improves the areas that are now behind.

  6. #6

    Re: Re: Re: fast/low damage attact and ac problem

    Originally posted by Earth Stick


    Thats would be a fair comment except that AC covers the entire body - there are no exposed spots. Armor covering different parts of the body mearly accumulates AC.
    All armors have weak spots, or you wouldn't be able to move. :-) But that is RL, not in this game.

    But I have to agree with the stop nerfing part... It's time we tried to balance everything without nerfing.
    Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.

    Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier

    Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.

  7. #7
    FC have choosen not to make ac specific to location, it would help if they did include this. But I think that is a tall order and you are talking about damage to the areas between the locations as well.

    But I still think that impact to a material from any object will have no effect at all if the force of the impact is less than a threashold for that material. Your sledge hammer would put a hole in a car door or break bones but do nothing to the amour plate on a tank - ever.

    With evades if an ma doesn't max their aggression they hit low damage AND slow!

  8. #8
    A sledgehammer that big would be completely impossible to use in real life. Maybe an atrox could lift it but combat? never. So I'd use fists and feet instead. A kick to the head would make you dizzy no matter how hard the helmet is.

    Anyway I still think ac should reduce a % not a set ammount. And yes evades should be more effective. I have never ever completely dodged a bullet or a melee hit.
    -War is not about who is right, it is about who is left.

    - L92 MP
    - L7 Enf

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Archu
    A sledgehammer that big would be completely impossible to use in real life. Maybe an atrox could lift it but combat? never.
    LOL... Guess I'm the original Atrox... hehehe... You did notice that I put 50 lb? That is pounds about 2.2 lbs per kilo, so 50 lbs is about 25 kg. It aint that much... :-) Unless you are refering to the grossly huge ingame sledgehammer. In that case we're talking about two differnt things... I'm not sure if I could swing that sucker in RL. :-)


    So I'd use fists and feet instead. A kick to the head would make you dizzy no matter how hard the helmet is.
    True... I know this all too well. Thx to sports. :-)
    Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.

    Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier

    Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.

  10. #10
    Well if you want realism why don´t you ask Funcom to remove nano program? After all they are curently very unrealistic.

    Personaly I bought the game to have a good time, not as a combat simulator.

  11. #11
    "All armors have weak spots, or you wouldn't be able to move. :-) "

    *cough*chainmail*cough*

  12. #12
    Originally posted by MikeWeather
    "All armors have weak spots, or you wouldn't be able to move. :-) "

    *cough*chainmail*cough*
    Meet my hammer of doom... Problem with chain mail... Or my very thin spike... All armors have weaknesses...
    Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.

    Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
    Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier

    Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.

  13. #13
    I always cringe when people use RL to try to explain the game. In AO, if I was an expert at using a gun on Full Auto, why couldn't I even pick up a gun that that had burst only. And when would a melee person ever beat a person with a gun.

    The rules in the game are shaped more by gameplay balance than RL. High level mobs in AO have high AC. MA do minimum damage against high AC. There is an imbalance here and has to be fixed.

  14. #14
    Originally posted by Spook
    Well if you want realism why don´t you ask Funcom to remove nano program? After all they are curently very unrealistic.

    Personaly I bought the game to have a good time, not as a combat simulator.
    Ditto

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